Accelerating Japanese air frames

[ilovestrategy]

The detail into this game after all these years(original witp too) never ceases to amaze me.

[SuluSea]

Hey guys are you dumping any R&D into the Ki-44? It would seem to just focus it all on the Ki-44-IIa since they're both available in 9.42. Don't ask me how I did it because in my hand written&nbsp;plan on R&D I somehow had the Ki-44 available in 6.42 so this comes as an epiphany to me. [;)][:o][:'(]&nbsp;Again don't ask how I arrived at the 6.42 figure. <needbraincrampsmilie>
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[Puhis]

No reason to R&D basic Ki-44, Ki-44-IIa is a better plane.

[SuluSea]

Well, some good came out of my mistake , when I changed the R&D factories from the 44 to the 44-IIa I thought I might be back to square one but the factories repaired points stayed the same. [:)]&nbsp;

[Numdydar]

Too funny. I did not even include the Ki-44 in my factory chart in the OP as I never thouight anyone would ever have a factory research one [:D]. Glad it worked out for you [:)]

[Numdydar]

Bump for MAJOR change in R&D

[michaelm75au]

Becareful what you are using to compare the numbers from.

1. At release, R&D Factories only counted if there were no damaged devices present.
2. Somewhere around beta p8 (to allow R&D factory change before starting production if R&D option ON), I had inadvertently left out the check for no damaged devices. This lead to an increase in a/c development - how big depended on the size of the undamaged factory resulting in possible '3's per turn when no should have.
3. This has been fixed in beta q4 installer (the one for this weekend). There is a beta q3a EXE that also has the fix in the support thread.

[chuckj118]

In answer to your post date 6/18/2011 about PDU being on.

Having PDU turned off would only cause a certain amount of inconvenience. The major issue with the P-38, B-17, B-24,P-47 is not a lack of squadrons - it is a lack of air frames. So the only issue turning PDU off would cause is it would force the USA player to possibly move different squadrons to where he wants them. For example, in our game we are now at May '43 and I have NEVER had more than 3 squadrons of P-38's. If I remember correctly I have actually had to turn P-38 squadrons into P-40 units due to a lack of P-38 air frames.

The only real problem I am having with lack of squadrons is with the various recon units. I received one type of airframe for 3 or 4 months before getting a squadron that could use them. This was with PDU turn ON!

The other issue, placing your best pilots in your best airframes would occur whether PDU is on or off.

I think you are over estimating the impact that PDU has on a game. It is more for the players convience than a major game balance issue.

[michaelm75au]

It appears that the bug I introduced in p8 has also caused me to report the wrong information here.

The fix in the coming q4 should correct this by putting it back to correct method based on production first, and then the other reported calculations.
One tiny '{}' in the wrong place has caused all this confusion.
Go figure[:@][:o]

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

In simple terms
(a) A factory will produce a random R&D between 0 and the number of devices in the factory ie 1 device = 0, 2 devices = 0,1, 3 devices =0,1,2, 4 devices = 0,1,2,3, 10 devices = 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 etc.
(b) The random R&D is then divided by 10. Any random R&D of less than 10 will be '0', otherwise it will be the ten's component of the random R&D.
(c) If there are no damaged devices in factory (this is a given as there must be NO damaged ones present), add '1' to the number from (b).
(d) If the number from (c) exceeds 3, it is capped at '3'.

The number from (d) is added to the a/c development counter - this will be a number from 1 to 3 inclusive.
Once the counter exceeds 100, it moves the available date sooner by a month and resets the development counter.

So the above explaination is the correct one once q4 is released?

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

ORIGINAL: michaelm

In simple terms
(a) A factory will produce a random R&D between 0 and the number of devices in the factory ie 1 device = 0, 2 devices = 0,1, 3 devices =0,1,2, 4 devices = 0,1,2,3, 10 devices = 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 etc.
(b) The random R&D is then divided by 10. Any random R&D of less than 10 will be '0', otherwise it will be the ten's component of the random R&D.
(c) If there are no damaged devices in factory (this is a given as there must be NO damaged ones present), add '1' to the number from (b).
(d) If the number from (c) exceeds 3, it is capped at '3'.

The number from (d) is added to the a/c development counter - this will be a number from 1 to 3 inclusive.
Once the counter exceeds 100, it moves the available date sooner by a month and resets the development counter.

So the above explaination is the correct one once q4 is released?

There is a step before (a) that is missing.
(a.1) Number of initial devices from factory is as a/c production ( active devices + random(30)/30). If this number is 0 or any damaged devices present, then no R&D this turn from this factory.
(a.2) A factory will produce a random R&D between 1 and the number of devices from step (a.1) ie 1 device = 1, 2 devices = 1,2, 3 devices =1,2,3, 4 devices = 1,2,3,4 10 devices = 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 etc.

This puts it back to what was there before the p8 muckup.

[Numdydar]

Sorry to be dense but it has been a while since I last did any programing [:(]

Random(30)/30 means a random number between 1-30 is generated and then that result is divided by 30. Do I have that right? So 1/30 times you are able to get a 'bonus' of an extra plane produced?

If that is true, 29/30 times this will have 0 as a result as you only have a 1/30 chance of getting a 1. Unless you always round up. If you round up, then you always get 1 as a result.

So a 2(0) production factory whould have 2 points produced + a 1/30 chance of a +1. Then the Production routine would modify this to see if an actual plane was produced or not.

A 2(0) R&D factory would still be 2 points produced + a 1/30 chance of a +1 as for production factories
Then another random number based on the most likey outcome of the above which would be 2, would produce either a 1 or 2 as there were two devices. If the 1/30 'bonus' point was generated then this numbe could be 1,2, or 3. Correct so far?

As all these results would be 0 when divided by 10, (2/10= 0 rounded down) no R&D points would be generated.
However because the R&D factory was fully repaired, it gets a 'bonus' of 1 point

So ANY R&D factory that has less than 9 factories fully repaired could never exceed getting 1 point towards acceleration. If you had 9 then you would have a 1/30 chance of getting 2 points. ([9 factories + 1/30 chance of +1]/10 =1 + 1 'bonus' for fully repaired =2)

To complete the picture, 2 cities with 1 2(0) R&D factory each would generate 2 points/day. So every 50 days this plane would accelerate.

While 2 cities with 1 30(0) factory each would most likely produce 6 points/day. This would allow an acceleration every 16-17 days.

And if you can do it, 3 cities with 3 30(0) factories each could produce 27 points/day (3 cities * 3 factories * 3 points generated = 27). Evey 4 days or so you would accelerate.

Of course getting the R&D factories repaired is the key to all of this [:D] Once that is done and you have factories spread out in different cities, things can really speed up [:)]

Thanks for ALLyour help Michael. Hopefully I have it right now. Finally, right [:)]

[FeurerKrieg]

Given the time it takes to repair R&D I am still not clear if setting factory sizes to 30 or 1 is the better route. I think to cover my bases I may just do both - for each target frame I will make one factory of size 1 and one factory of size 30.

If we knew the exact formula for determining repair of an R&D factory then some calculus would probably get us to the optimal solution.

My gut says that given the +1 bonus point PER DAY for having an undamaged size 1(0) factory, that should be the way to go.

[Numdydar]

I'm leaning towards the 1(0) factory too, especially for those 45/46 airframes. If you were lucky enough to get them fully repaired in 42/43, then you gould get them accelerated at a rate of 1 month acceleration/3 monts approx. So a 3-6 month boost. 1 point/day approximately 100 points every 3 months.

[darbycmcd]

I think you guys are misreading the formula. Remember that ac production numbers show production per MONTH. so a 1 ac factory (r&d or other) will give you 1 point (on average) per month. The devices used in step 2 is not the raw production number, it is the calculated value in step 1. When you calculated 1 month accerleration every 3 weeks or so, doesn't that sound a bit... much?

Some players manage to move one or two late war planes up quite a bit by the model swap method and massive commitment to focused R&D. But unless the Japanese player wants to commit to this focus R&D is not a huge part of the game. It mostly is a method to time delay new factory complexes.

[Numdydar]

From the OP

ORIGINAL: michaelm

For each factory/location, one to 3 R&D points are added to the aircraft development per turn. This is how it has always been.

What this means it that it is not a simple case of how many R&D devices are out there.
For example, if I have 4 cities with each having 2 factories (of 10 active devices) researching a plane, the number of R&D points that turn would range from 8 (4x2x1) to 24 (4x2x3). Even though I have 80 (4x2x10) actives devices, which would be what is reported on most of the industry related screens.

Thus the advance by a month could happen in 13 to 5 days respectively.

I have been getting advances every two weeks or so for airframes I have concentrated on. So it definately is a per day number. Remember the even the production factories produce daily numbers which may or not end up having an actual plane produced. R&D is the same in that every day there is a chance an R&D point or points can be produced.

[darbycmcd]

hmmm, i see what you are saying, but it is at odds with what what posted in post #50. and seems waaaaay to fast. lets one more time try to get definative answer from michael.

[darbycmcd]

out of curiousity, when you say focusing on, how much focus? how many factories are you talking about to produce a one month acceleration every 2 weeks?

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: darbymcd

hmmm, i see what you are saying, but it is at odds with what what posted in post #50. and seems waaaaay to fast. lets one more time try to get definative answer from michael.

Where in post 50 does it say that the numbers are monthly? The line below fro post 50 is the only reference to a month I can see and that is talking about acceleration NOT that the numbers produced is monthly

Once the counter exceeds 100, it moves the available date sooner by a month and resets the development counter.

[darbycmcd]

sorry, my bad, i meant post 51. it doesn't explicity say per month, but if you run the numbers you will see that it mirrors ac production, basically that you would expect 1 point of production per month per device
i meant this section
There is a step before (a) that is missing.
(a.1) Number of initial devices from factory is as a/c production ( active devices + random(30)/30). If this number is 0 or any damaged devices present, then no R&D this turn from this factory.
(a.2) A factory will produce a random R&D between 1 and the number of devices from step (a.1) ie 1 device = 1, 2 devices = 1,2, 3 devices =1,2,3, 4 devices = 1,2,3,4 10 devices = 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 etc.

This puts it back to what was there before the p8 muckup

so now i am confused which is the current system! you are getting really large increases, how many factories do you have working to get this pace?