Whomped up a couple of Omaha mods...
The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
Been playing with the paint program...
Whomped up a couple of Omaha mods...
Whomped up a couple of Omaha mods...
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"Action springs not from thought, but from a readiness for responsibility.” ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
And, here's t'other one!
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"Action springs not from thought, but from a readiness for responsibility.” ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
ORIGINAL: Terminus
Would be unlikely. There was no political will in the dominions to foot that sort of expense.
That being the case, article 8 of the London Naval Treaty is interesting:
Article 8
Subject to any special agreements which may submit them to limitation, the following vessels are exempt from limitation:
(a) Naval surface combatant vessels of 600 tons (610 metric tons) standard displacement and under;
(b) Naval surface combatant vessels exceeding 600 tons (610 metric tons), but not exceeding 2,000 tons (2,032 metric tons) standard displacement, provided they have none of the following characteristics:
(1) Mount a gun above 6.1 inch (155 mm) calibre;
(2) Mount more than four guns above 3 inch (76 mm) calibre;
(3) Are designed or fitted to launch torpedoes;
(4) Are designed for a speed greater than twenty knots.
So - the CW might add a few larger sloops - something along the lines of the FR Bougainvilles (so 2000t, 18kts, long range, 2-3 5.5-6in guns, enough AA to scare off a floatplane, minimal A/S equip); there seem to have been several dozen ~1000t ships built from the early 1930s onwards (including several in Australia) - bet you could have squeezed a few bigger ones in without any trouble. Can never have too many of that sort of thing, can you? Of course, you've then to explain why they're loitering around Sydney and not off hunting U-boats...hell, you could even posit that the FNFL get a couple of the Bougainvilles that actually ended up with the Vichy govt - dump'em in New Caledonia and everyone's happy.
One other "flavour" possibility - add Portuguese forces as belligerents? The bases exist already, and it gives you a couple of sloops and maybe a destroyer or two and a submarine or two eventually; doubt you'd get much in the way of land forces, but any would be 'not nothing', so to speak.
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Blackhorse
- Posts: 1415
- Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 8:00 am
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RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
Well, OK. If the "kindler, gentler" Japanese simply must hold most of the Chinese economic centers at game-start, then how about this:
A BRIEF REVISIONIST HISTORY OF THE START OF THE "WAR OF RESISTANCE" AGAINST JAPAN
All through 1937 and 1938, Japan consolidates its hold in Manchuria, continues to support friendly warlords and collaborationists, and keeps political pressure on the KMT regime to advance Japan's China Autonomous Movement policy.
The first series of agreements banned the KMT from a political or military presence in the provinces ranged between Beijing and Manuchuria and Mongolia. Although the Japanese did not occupy these provinces, the political vacuum made it easy for them to establish friendly collaborationist regimes. In China, Chiang is willing to trade space for time, as his focus is on making the National Revolutionary Army a professional force, and his hope is to defeat the Communists before engaging Japan in open warfare.
However, in the aftermath of the Anti-Comintern Pact (Novemenber, 1936), the Japanese put increasing pressure on the German government to stop assisting the Chinese military reorganization. By early 1938, German equipment shipments had stopped, and its military advisors were withdrawn. By then, 20 divisions had been trained and equipped to German standards, and were led by officers from the Whampoa military academy who were (mostly) loyal to Chiang. As the Germans leave, Chiang turns to the Soviet Union for assistance. Stalin provides aid, despite Chiang's continued pogroms against the communists. Stalin's cold-blooded calculation is that Japan is less likely to attack the USSR if it is tied down in China, and he puts aside ideology to give material support to Chiang.
The KMT-Japanese agreements covering northern China are vague (what does a ban on 'political activity' mean?) and open for dispute. There are incidents, and guerillas organized against Japanese puppet administrators, but the Japanese do not seek to push into Beijing or beyond, and an uneasy truce prevails.
Late in 1938, the Japanese shift the focus of their political pressure to Southern China. Since a 1932 incident, China's military was barred from the Shanghai region. Throughout the 1930s Japan uses its economic and military presence to build a network of dependent local governments. In 1938, Tokyo seeks to extend its China Autonomous Movement to the Shanghai region, and force Chiang to make the same concessions there, as he had in the north. With much of his army engaged in a major campaign to crush the Communists in the north, Chiang agrees, although his policy of appeasing Japan is becoming increasingly unpopular throughout China.
The Japanese install Chiang's former KMT rival Wang Jingwei, as ruler of the Shanghai region. In early 1939, Wang declares his government to be the legitimate government of all of China. Wang is clearly backed by powerful Japanese industrial and military leaders in China, but his proclamation wrong-foots the Tokyo government, which does not immediately rein him in.
Both Wang and Chiang force Japan's hand. Chiang sees Wang as a direct threat to his control of China. Chiang makes a hasty truce with the Communists and sends the 19th Route Army, including two of his German-trained divisions, to confront Wang's collaborationist troops that are moving through Jiangsu province towards the Chinese capital at Nanking. At the Tai Hu incident of August 29th, 1939, the KMT's National Revolutionary Army crushes Wang's troops near Wusih, and follows them on the road to Shanghai. The road is blocked by Japanese marines, and open warfare between Japan and China soon ensues.
Chiang sends the bulk of his German-trained divisions to Shanghai. Initially unprepared for a full-out war, it takes the Japanese ninth months to break the siege of Shanghai; when they do, the flower of Chiang's National Revolutionary Army has been destroyed. The routed KMT troops fall back and try to rally at Nanking, but the city falls in September, 1940. The Japanese troops are less-disciplined than they might be; their 200,000 casualties since the war began include most of the best small-unit leaders. The troops are exhausted by the fighting, maddened by the vicious Chinese opposition, and exhilarated by the prospect that the fall of the Chinese capital will mean the end of the war. It is the perfect recipe for the "Rape of Nanking."
But Chiang does not surrender. He moves his seat of government inland, first to Wuhan, then, after repeated air and naval bombardments, to Chungking. He directs the transfer of Chinese industry to the Chungking area. China's resistance has thrilled and impressed the West. Even before the Germans invade Russia in 1941, Stalin has scaled down his support for Chiang. As the Russians step down, the Americans step up. While America remains isolationist, Roosevelt is concerned by the pace of the Japanese build-up, and interested in developing China as a friendly power. He supports the proposal for an "American Volunteer Group" in China. By November, 1941, the 1st and 2nd AVGs, equipped with early-model P-40 and A-20 aircraft originally destined for England, have arrived at air bases in China and their air crews are ready to enter the fight.
After the capture of Nanking, the Japanese government takes time to reconstitute and reinforce the army, and restore its discipline. The army refits and consolidates its hold throughout 1941. Elsewhere in China, the Japanese occupy the puppet territories of the north, and capture Beijing after a brief, brisk battle. The Navy is engaged with a blockade of China, and bringing troops to occupy Canton and the port cities. By November, 1941 Japan controls the entire coast except for Wenchow and Pakhoi, and the international enclaves at Hong Kong, Macao, and Kwangchowan. The main army, at Nanking, is refit, and preparing for a campaign against Wuhan.
----------------
This scenario gives Japan at-start control of:
All the Chinese coastal cities (+ Canton) that they normally have
The cities along the line Shanghai-Nanking, plus all adjacent cities
The northern cities along the line Tienstin-Peiping-Kalgow-Tatung-Kweisu-Paotow and everything to the (map) east
China gains control of:
The Wuhan area (Hanchow + Wuchang) and the surrounding inland cities (Ichang, Anking, Nanchang)
The northern inland area bounded by Sinyang, Suchow and Chengting
China's military strength ends up about the same as is stock AE. The better-trained army fights longer and harder, but is eventually chewed up as badly as IRL.
China should have more industry in Wuhan and Chungking -- in this scenario Chiang has a lot more time to evacuate factories inland.
. . . and China gets both AVG groups (P-40Bs, and A-20As) deployed in China at start. China should also get earlier reinforcements for its own air force.
A BRIEF REVISIONIST HISTORY OF THE START OF THE "WAR OF RESISTANCE" AGAINST JAPAN
All through 1937 and 1938, Japan consolidates its hold in Manchuria, continues to support friendly warlords and collaborationists, and keeps political pressure on the KMT regime to advance Japan's China Autonomous Movement policy.
The first series of agreements banned the KMT from a political or military presence in the provinces ranged between Beijing and Manuchuria and Mongolia. Although the Japanese did not occupy these provinces, the political vacuum made it easy for them to establish friendly collaborationist regimes. In China, Chiang is willing to trade space for time, as his focus is on making the National Revolutionary Army a professional force, and his hope is to defeat the Communists before engaging Japan in open warfare.
However, in the aftermath of the Anti-Comintern Pact (Novemenber, 1936), the Japanese put increasing pressure on the German government to stop assisting the Chinese military reorganization. By early 1938, German equipment shipments had stopped, and its military advisors were withdrawn. By then, 20 divisions had been trained and equipped to German standards, and were led by officers from the Whampoa military academy who were (mostly) loyal to Chiang. As the Germans leave, Chiang turns to the Soviet Union for assistance. Stalin provides aid, despite Chiang's continued pogroms against the communists. Stalin's cold-blooded calculation is that Japan is less likely to attack the USSR if it is tied down in China, and he puts aside ideology to give material support to Chiang.
The KMT-Japanese agreements covering northern China are vague (what does a ban on 'political activity' mean?) and open for dispute. There are incidents, and guerillas organized against Japanese puppet administrators, but the Japanese do not seek to push into Beijing or beyond, and an uneasy truce prevails.
Late in 1938, the Japanese shift the focus of their political pressure to Southern China. Since a 1932 incident, China's military was barred from the Shanghai region. Throughout the 1930s Japan uses its economic and military presence to build a network of dependent local governments. In 1938, Tokyo seeks to extend its China Autonomous Movement to the Shanghai region, and force Chiang to make the same concessions there, as he had in the north. With much of his army engaged in a major campaign to crush the Communists in the north, Chiang agrees, although his policy of appeasing Japan is becoming increasingly unpopular throughout China.
The Japanese install Chiang's former KMT rival Wang Jingwei, as ruler of the Shanghai region. In early 1939, Wang declares his government to be the legitimate government of all of China. Wang is clearly backed by powerful Japanese industrial and military leaders in China, but his proclamation wrong-foots the Tokyo government, which does not immediately rein him in.
Both Wang and Chiang force Japan's hand. Chiang sees Wang as a direct threat to his control of China. Chiang makes a hasty truce with the Communists and sends the 19th Route Army, including two of his German-trained divisions, to confront Wang's collaborationist troops that are moving through Jiangsu province towards the Chinese capital at Nanking. At the Tai Hu incident of August 29th, 1939, the KMT's National Revolutionary Army crushes Wang's troops near Wusih, and follows them on the road to Shanghai. The road is blocked by Japanese marines, and open warfare between Japan and China soon ensues.
Chiang sends the bulk of his German-trained divisions to Shanghai. Initially unprepared for a full-out war, it takes the Japanese ninth months to break the siege of Shanghai; when they do, the flower of Chiang's National Revolutionary Army has been destroyed. The routed KMT troops fall back and try to rally at Nanking, but the city falls in September, 1940. The Japanese troops are less-disciplined than they might be; their 200,000 casualties since the war began include most of the best small-unit leaders. The troops are exhausted by the fighting, maddened by the vicious Chinese opposition, and exhilarated by the prospect that the fall of the Chinese capital will mean the end of the war. It is the perfect recipe for the "Rape of Nanking."
But Chiang does not surrender. He moves his seat of government inland, first to Wuhan, then, after repeated air and naval bombardments, to Chungking. He directs the transfer of Chinese industry to the Chungking area. China's resistance has thrilled and impressed the West. Even before the Germans invade Russia in 1941, Stalin has scaled down his support for Chiang. As the Russians step down, the Americans step up. While America remains isolationist, Roosevelt is concerned by the pace of the Japanese build-up, and interested in developing China as a friendly power. He supports the proposal for an "American Volunteer Group" in China. By November, 1941, the 1st and 2nd AVGs, equipped with early-model P-40 and A-20 aircraft originally destined for England, have arrived at air bases in China and their air crews are ready to enter the fight.
After the capture of Nanking, the Japanese government takes time to reconstitute and reinforce the army, and restore its discipline. The army refits and consolidates its hold throughout 1941. Elsewhere in China, the Japanese occupy the puppet territories of the north, and capture Beijing after a brief, brisk battle. The Navy is engaged with a blockade of China, and bringing troops to occupy Canton and the port cities. By November, 1941 Japan controls the entire coast except for Wenchow and Pakhoi, and the international enclaves at Hong Kong, Macao, and Kwangchowan. The main army, at Nanking, is refit, and preparing for a campaign against Wuhan.
----------------
This scenario gives Japan at-start control of:
All the Chinese coastal cities (+ Canton) that they normally have
The cities along the line Shanghai-Nanking, plus all adjacent cities
The northern cities along the line Tienstin-Peiping-Kalgow-Tatung-Kweisu-Paotow and everything to the (map) east
China gains control of:
The Wuhan area (Hanchow + Wuchang) and the surrounding inland cities (Ichang, Anking, Nanchang)
The northern inland area bounded by Sinyang, Suchow and Chengting
China's military strength ends up about the same as is stock AE. The better-trained army fights longer and harder, but is eventually chewed up as badly as IRL.
China should have more industry in Wuhan and Chungking -- in this scenario Chiang has a lot more time to evacuate factories inland.
. . . and China gets both AVG groups (P-40Bs, and A-20As) deployed in China at start. China should also get earlier reinforcements for its own air force.
ORIGINAL: JWE
Not sure that would work in terms of the game parameters, Joel. Having Japan do invasion and amphib ops against China might break the shipping and troop availability model. Think Japan needs a foothold on the coastal areas of China before opening day. This gives them the shipyards and factories they need to keep the Econ model from breaking down, but also forces them to use that China Expeditionary Army for actual ops, rather than a cheap source of reinforcements.ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
According to your parameters methinks a more plausible (and interesting!) scenario is that the Japanese control Manchuria and Korea, as you describe, but the rest of China is controlled by the Chinese, and Chiang Kai-Shek has 20 high-quality German-trained divisions at the heart of his army. IRL, only 8 of these divisions had been trained before fighting broke out in 1937 -- and they were destroyed in the fighting around Shanghai, but it took the Japanese over three months to crush them.
. . . just a thought. [:)]
The IJ Army coulda been slapped hard, but never totally suppressed. And Hakku Ichiu was endemic in the culture. And Japan really, really, really thought it had certain rights in China.
Maybe the 'Marco Polo Bridge' thing happened somewhere else or a bit later (put a pressure cooker on med and it will still explode after a longer time). Maybe they didn't whack Zhang Tso-Lin when they did, but poisoned the swine a year or two later, after Chiang Kai-shek got beligerent in Beijing and he did nothing. And then, for lack of anything better to do, they went after Peanut. So there's Beijing, and it's entirely plausible for Japan to go after the industrialized coast, even down to Canton.
Heck, that would be the political sharpie in the butt that would tick off the US China lobby and get things moving. People tend to learn how to live with slowly rising levels of crap. Today ain't that much worse from yesterday, so ... Ok, then rather than the slowly rising ramp of tension, Japan gets a longer time frame in which to develop infrastructure a bit more. Then, when the fewmets finally do hit the windmill, it has the same "prompt" impact on the West's bleeding heart's as Nanking.
Just trying to find a plausible scenario where Japan starts in roughly the same circumstances, but has a hiatus in which to develop industry and discover efficiencies.
Love to hear more from you on this as well. You can always find enough corn for a side dish in a big enough pile of Cavalry horse manure [:D]
[ed] redleg devil made me say that. Garry Owen, bro.
WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff
Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!
Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
Good observation, and quite likely true. Westerners, those in power at least, were far from convinced about air naval until too late. Take away the Yamato and her sisters, and the IJN is looked upon like the Italian Navy by USN and RN. That would not be a good thing at all, much lower preparation. Very scary for the allies in '42 under this scenario ...ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1
What I meant was if the Japanese hadn't drawn so much attention to their program of "super" ships, the West might have ignored it far longer.
Pax
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
You must have been chasing Pancho Villa and chewing horse-corn. That was brilliant !! Thought your take on Wang Jingwei was absolutely inspired.ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
Well, OK. If the "kindler, gentler" Japanese simply must hold most of the Chinese economic centers at game-start, then how about this:
It does it all. Gives Japan a hiatus for development; keeps the tension level up there; corrals the China lobby in the US politically (cavalry pun); gets Japan on the mainland, but forces her to get 'expiditionary'; ratchets things up along a more prompt slope, leading to realtively historical steel/resource cut-offs, and even has a media packet of raped nuns and nurses.
I am seriously impressed. And I can buy into that whole thing. Hey, John, I think you found the guy who gets to write your scenario background. Woof !!
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
Very cool scenario, Blackhorse!
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
On Allied (or Japanese) pre-war fortifications in the Pacific: IRL both sides already had years to build whatever they wanted and could there. Why radically more improvements?
Besides, there is no pressing reason for US to build up Guam or Wake. Guam is too isolated. Without investment of comparable to, say, historically made into defence of Luzon, it is just sending troops where they will be cut off and waiting for rescue. And why Wake needs more defences, if USN expects to start (and end) the war by launching an island-hopping offensive through the Central Pacific with superior numbers? In the text provided by oldman45 above might be notices that Wake is seen as a future base for air and sub operations, not a forward outpost in great danger... Prom pre-PH viewpoint, the Japanese should be thinking about defending in the region.
If anything might be seen as needing improvements in the first place, it is the bases in Northern Australia and New Guinea, that were supposed to form a line of communications to DEI and Philippines.
On Malaya, while I'm at it: Sir Robin strategy can only be used as a prelude for evacuating Malaya and Singapore entirely (politically unacceptable), because if bases in the Northern Malaya are left to Japaneese, Singapore itself will come under air assault and basing the fleet there will become impossible (Strait of Malacca will be closed by Japanese aviation as well, forcing any reinforcement convoys to Malaya/Brunei take a long way). Of course, this just illustrates, that defending Malaya while Japanese control seas and air is an impossible task. Any plausible defensive plan requires bringing more of the British fleet or airforce from Europe. Which is not impossible, of course.
Besides, there is no pressing reason for US to build up Guam or Wake. Guam is too isolated. Without investment of comparable to, say, historically made into defence of Luzon, it is just sending troops where they will be cut off and waiting for rescue. And why Wake needs more defences, if USN expects to start (and end) the war by launching an island-hopping offensive through the Central Pacific with superior numbers? In the text provided by oldman45 above might be notices that Wake is seen as a future base for air and sub operations, not a forward outpost in great danger... Prom pre-PH viewpoint, the Japanese should be thinking about defending in the region.
If anything might be seen as needing improvements in the first place, it is the bases in Northern Australia and New Guinea, that were supposed to form a line of communications to DEI and Philippines.
On Malaya, while I'm at it: Sir Robin strategy can only be used as a prelude for evacuating Malaya and Singapore entirely (politically unacceptable), because if bases in the Northern Malaya are left to Japaneese, Singapore itself will come under air assault and basing the fleet there will become impossible (Strait of Malacca will be closed by Japanese aviation as well, forcing any reinforcement convoys to Malaya/Brunei take a long way). Of course, this just illustrates, that defending Malaya while Japanese control seas and air is an impossible task. Any plausible defensive plan requires bringing more of the British fleet or airforce from Europe. Which is not impossible, of course.
The Reluctant Admiral mod team.
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
You can't plan to abandon Singapore. That's political suicide.
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
As I noted, unacceptable.ORIGINAL: Terminus
You can't plan to abandon Singapore. That's political suicide.
The Reluctant Admiral mod team.
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
Sorry, misread your post.
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
-
mike scholl 1
- Posts: 1265
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:20 pm
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
ORIGINAL: FatR
Besides, there is no pressing reason for US to build up Guam or Wake. Guam is too isolated. Without investment of comparable to, say, historically made into defence of Luzon, it is just sending troops where they will be cut off and waiting for rescue. And why Wake needs more defences, if USN expects to start (and end) the war by launching an island-hopping offensive through the Central Pacific with superior numbers? In the text provided by oldman45 above might be notices that Wake is seen as a future base for air and sub operations, not a forward outpost in great danger... Prom pre-PH viewpoint, the Japanese should be thinking about defending in the region.
Terms of the Washington Naval treaty prevented the US from increasing fortifications anywhere West of Hawaii. Something to consider if you want to change the terms of the treaty in the scenario.
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
DOCUP: I truly understand your pain at having read all that. Had the read the Vinson Acts when writing my Thesis. BORING!
Good notes regarding the islands and Philippines.
1. Concur with building up and fortifying Guam more.
2. Wake would get more attention.
Philippines
1. Slightly more fighters.
2. What about 1-2 2EB squadrons?
Got to go to the zoo in Denver so cannot run farther then that!
Nice storyline Blackhorse.
John if I may call you John? And hope you had a great day at the Zoo.
PI I agree with slightly more fighers and 2 squadrons of bombers. Maybe some Havocs and Banshees. (I really like DBs now)
Witht he treaty gone maybe some fortification in the PI would have been built.
Your idea of having the 3 New Mexico BBs in the PI at the start. Would the Alantic command allow that since the Pacific Fleet still had all of its BBs floating at PH.
I've read some articles online about the modernisation of the Big Five, if anyone would want to share what the books say about the plans for them that would be great.
A thought just popped into my head. A little out there. What about some of the French Fleet defects (disobeys orders) leaves the Med and joins the free French in the Pacific?
FatR
Wake could prob have a little fortifications 1 or so and bring the Marine CD unit up to strenght. I agree the islands should be brought up a little bit between PH and Oz.
doc
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
Blackhorse: Your 'history' is EXCELLENT! I like the ideas, progression, and situation that players would have for the start of the war. Very different and, possibly, exciting...
I think the Nine Power Pact precluding base fortification is quite important to remain intact, however, as FatR said there is lots of time to implement base building for the Allies. Here is a proposal:
Central Pacific Air Bridge:
Midway and Wake--Raise Forts by 2, have a full Marine CD unit in place, small BF, small Construction Bat, and a squadron of PBYs in place on Day One. Essential bases that would be highly favored by Hepburn for immediate improvement as the air bridge to Philippines and front door to Hawaii.
Guam--Raise Forts by 1, add a partial Marine unit, tiny BF, and raise AF by 1. This base will fall no matter what so it doesn't get as much attention other then improvements to allow aircraft movement to Philippines.
South Pacific Air Bridge:
Have preliminary work starting--just in case the Central Pacific FALLS [X(]--with detachments at Palmyra, Canton, Suva, Noumea, and Port Moresby. These could simply be add-on Construction Battalions and small Marine Inf units for protection.
Many of these units could start at 25-40% and, if allowed to fill out, could be highly useful as the war begins...
I think the Nine Power Pact precluding base fortification is quite important to remain intact, however, as FatR said there is lots of time to implement base building for the Allies. Here is a proposal:
Central Pacific Air Bridge:
Midway and Wake--Raise Forts by 2, have a full Marine CD unit in place, small BF, small Construction Bat, and a squadron of PBYs in place on Day One. Essential bases that would be highly favored by Hepburn for immediate improvement as the air bridge to Philippines and front door to Hawaii.
Guam--Raise Forts by 1, add a partial Marine unit, tiny BF, and raise AF by 1. This base will fall no matter what so it doesn't get as much attention other then improvements to allow aircraft movement to Philippines.
South Pacific Air Bridge:
Have preliminary work starting--just in case the Central Pacific FALLS [X(]--with detachments at Palmyra, Canton, Suva, Noumea, and Port Moresby. These could simply be add-on Construction Battalions and small Marine Inf units for protection.
Many of these units could start at 25-40% and, if allowed to fill out, could be highly useful as the war begins...
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
ORIGINAL: DOCUP
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
DOCUP: I truly understand your pain at having read all that. Had the read the Vinson Acts when writing my Thesis. BORING!
Good notes regarding the islands and Philippines.
1. Concur with building up and fortifying Guam more.
2. Wake would get more attention.
Philippines
1. Slightly more fighters.
2. What about 1-2 2EB squadrons?
Got to go to the zoo in Denver so cannot run farther then that!
Nice storyline Blackhorse.
John if I may call you John? And hope you had a great day at the Zoo.
PI I agree with slightly more fighers and 2 squadrons of bombers. Maybe some Havocs and Banshees. (I really like DBs now)
Witht he treaty gone maybe some fortification in the PI would have been built.
Your idea of having the 3 New Mexico BBs in the PI at the start. Would the Alantic command allow that since the Pacific Fleet still had all of its BBs floating at PH.
I've read some articles online about the modernisation of the Big Five, if anyone would want to share what the books say about the plans for them that would be great.
A thought just popped into my head. A little out there. What about some of the French Fleet defects (disobeys orders) leaves the Med and joins the free French in the Pacific?
FatR
Wake could prob have a little fortifications 1 or so and bring the Marine CD unit up to strenght. I agree the islands should be brought up a little bit between PH and Oz.
doc
You may certainly Sir!
The zoo was a lot of fun. We had 4 of my former college students (now turning 29-30) and their families get together with my wife and boys. Good time had by all and Beau Jo's pizza cannot be beaten!
Reactions:
1. Figure bump the Philippine AF by (say) 18-24 P-40s, 1 Squadron of A-20 (12-16), and a B-25 or A-20/SBD Squadron (12-16). This would add a bit of teeth to the Philippine AF.
2. How about the STUPID American Commander in the Philippines actually plans and FOLLOWS the plan to retreat to Bataan? Raise the Forts there and add 10-20,000 Supply within the hex. Wouldn't be much but it would help...
3. Am not sure regarding King's view on the Atlantic Fleet but placing a few BBs in Manila sure would be fun. How about even a pair of the older BBs from Pearl? The BBs could be supported by a couple of cruisers and 6-8 more DDs.
4. Big Five modernization plans? I have no knowledge in this area.
5. The French Fleet is an interesting thought...
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
Glad you had a great time at the zoo. I love the Colombus zoo. My GF says I go to visit my relatives (baboons).
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Blackhorse: Your 'history' is EXCELLENT! I like the ideas, progression, and situation that players would have for the start of the war. Very different and, possibly, exciting...
I think the Nine Power Pact precluding base fortification is quite important to remain intact, however, as FatR said there is lots of time to implement base building for the Allies. Here is a proposal:
Central Pacific Air Bridge:
Midway and Wake--Raise Forts by 2, have a full Marine CD unit in place, small BF, small Construction Bat, and a squadron of PBYs in place on Day One. Essential bases that would be highly favored by Hepburn for immediate improvement as the air bridge to Philippines and front door to Hawaii.
Guam--Raise Forts by 1, add a partial Marine unit, tiny BF, and raise AF by 1. This base will fall no matter what so it doesn't get as much attention other then improvements to allow aircraft movement to Philippines.
South Pacific Air Bridge:
Have preliminary work starting--just in case the Central Pacific FALLS [X(]--with detachments at Palmyra, Canton, Suva, Noumea, and Port Moresby. These could simply be add-on Construction Battalions and small Marine Inf units for protection.
Many of these units could start at 25-40% and, if allowed to fill out, could be highly useful as the war begins...
I like this idea.
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
ORIGINAL: DOCUP
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
DOCUP: I truly understand your pain at having read all that. Had the read the Vinson Acts when writing my Thesis. BORING!
Good notes regarding the islands and Philippines.
1. Concur with building up and fortifying Guam more.
2. Wake would get more attention.
Philippines
1. Slightly more fighters.
2. What about 1-2 2EB squadrons?
Got to go to the zoo in Denver so cannot run farther then that!
Nice storyline Blackhorse.
John if I may call you John? And hope you had a great day at the Zoo.
PI I agree with slightly more fighers and 2 squadrons of bombers. Maybe some Havocs and Banshees. (I really like DBs now)
Witht he treaty gone maybe some fortification in the PI would have been built.
Your idea of having the 3 New Mexico BBs in the PI at the start. Would the Alantic command allow that since the Pacific Fleet still had all of its BBs floating at PH.
I've read some articles online about the modernisation of the Big Five, if anyone would want to share what the books say about the plans for them that would be great.
A thought just popped into my head. A little out there. What about some of the French Fleet defects (disobeys orders) leaves the Med and joins the free French in the Pacific?
FatR
Wake could prob have a little fortifications 1 or so and bring the Marine CD unit up to strenght. I agree the islands should be brought up a little bit between PH and Oz.
doc
You may certainly Sir!
The zoo was a lot of fun. We had 4 of my former college students (now turning 29-30) and their families get together with my wife and boys. Good time had by all and Beau Jo's pizza cannot be beaten!
Reactions:
1. Figure bump the Philippine AF by (say) 18-24 P-40s, 1 Squadron of A-20 (12-16), and a B-25 or A-20/SBD Squadron (12-16). This would add a bit of teeth to the Philippine AF.
2. How about the STUPID American Commander in the Philippines actually plans and FOLLOWS the plan to retreat to Bataan? Raise the Forts there and add 10-20,000 Supply within the hex. Wouldn't be much but it would help...
3. Am not sure regarding King's view on the Atlantic Fleet but placing a few BBs in Manila sure would be fun. How about even a pair of the older BBs from Pearl? The BBs could be supported by a couple of cruisers and 6-8 more DDs.
4. Big Five modernization plans? I have no knowledge in this area.
5. The French Fleet is an interesting thought...
1. Sounds good
2. Sounds even better. This does give PI some teeth. Prob cause some fits with the Japanese.
3. I think a pair of older BBs from PH sounds nice. Makes this area very interesting early on for both sides.
Very interesting, very interesting here.
doc
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
How about sisterships Nevada and Oklahoma in the Philippines?
We could then add the Idaho's (New Mexico, Mississippi, and Idaho) at Pearl. Nine targets and not eight!
As to Malaya, why not work one of the defense plans I read about where the Britsh actually create a line somewhere along the southern 1/3 of the Peninsula? One could raise Forts on that line and actually create a semi-defensible location outside of Singapore. Would be nice to allow the Brits a chance to hold for a bit outside of the great Bastion itself.
I like the ideas thrown out about the changes to the Dutch. JWE: Are these changes you made in the smaller DEI Mod?
We could then add the Idaho's (New Mexico, Mississippi, and Idaho) at Pearl. Nine targets and not eight!
As to Malaya, why not work one of the defense plans I read about where the Britsh actually create a line somewhere along the southern 1/3 of the Peninsula? One could raise Forts on that line and actually create a semi-defensible location outside of Singapore. Would be nice to allow the Brits a chance to hold for a bit outside of the great Bastion itself.
I like the ideas thrown out about the changes to the Dutch. JWE: Are these changes you made in the smaller DEI Mod?
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side
It's not very realistic for any USN battlewagons to be at Manilla. Besides, they'll just be free points for the Jap player: within range of about 7000 Jap airbases, repair facilities close to non-existent... Bad mojo...
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.