atrition to movement nerf needs to be coded out during next patch

[janh]

On a side note -- there is another screw for tuning the level of blizzard effects and penalties (&& the SHC staunchness and speed of the 41 summer campaign):
The survivability of units in pockets (w/ and w/o air/beachhead supply).

The penalty units in pockets fall under is also severe, much like the blizzard penalties for at least Dec. 41. Tuning one up a bit, and the other down to the January or February penalties would impact the whole GC, but if fine-tuned gently, the effect would go in the direction desired by most people here (i.e. if my impression is right).

Soviets pockets taking perhaps a turn longer or two to digest in summer 41 would slow Axis, cost more supplys, erode Axis numbers more -- effectively like increasing SHC morale, or adding additional counters. In return, German units pocketed during blizzard (a la Demyansk), or later years (Korsun), would stand a chance to hold out for some 3-4 turns or so. If they managed to survive until say January or better February, German CV would be perhaps allow relieve efforts or so. That effectively would reduce the impact of SHC hordes doing ZOC locks and the whole blizzard offensive could remind of the largely uncoordinated brawl it at large was, and would occasionally run out of steam at the moment the decisive breakthrus could really be exploited.

In return, Soviets might probably need a manpower upping? Basically the only way to figure this out properly would be (a) a reference case scenario with historical setups as well for the blizzard offensive, (b) slowly adjusting one thing before the next. After the latest announcement of another addon including -- surprisingly -- adding the blizzard special rules to the editor, one can hope that we soon have the tools to adjust at least of those parameters ourselves.

[morvael]

How much of this can be fixed by players doing a custom scenario and/or a mod for the game? Surely stronger Soviets, more units, slower motorized units are doable? Blizzard rules are probably unmoddable? I ask this because I am a fan of Paradox moddable games - one could alter a lot in them one didn't like. So maybe instead of trying to convince the developers (which may be difficult, since they did things the way they want so why change that), a group of players should try to work together on a mod that would make them happy?

[Flaviusx]

Pelton, I refer you to Kamil's game versus Saper. Kamil destroyed a cool two dozen divisions or so and it just didn't matter very much. Saper went on and spanked him in 42 anyways.

The Wehrmacht is much more resilient than you think and almost impossible to destroy in the first blizzard. It practically gets a reset in spring of 42, this is hard coded. Between Hiwis kicking in and ahistorically low losses in summer of 41, it's very hard to bring it down much below 3.3 million going into summer of 42. Even the most outstanding Soviet blizzard counteroffensive isn't going to knock it out.

So you are prematurely writing off the Germans in this game and may be in for an unpleasant surprise in 42.

Don't misunderstand me. I agree that the existing blizzard rules are a horrible kludge. But the blizzard isn't really that important anymore and won't win games by itself.

As for the stupidity of Soviet generalship, for myself I never cease to be amazed at the stupidity of the German plan to invade Russia. Not up to scratch at all, piss poor contingency planning, completely unrealistic logistical underpinnings, etc. etc. Extremely amateurish. The German genius for war has perhaps been overblown.

[Klydon]

ORIGINAL: morvael

How much of this can be fixed by players doing a custom scenario and/or a mod for the game? Surely stronger Soviets, more units, slower motorized units are doable? Blizzard rules are probably unmoddable? I ask this because I am a fan of Paradox moddable games - one could alter a lot in them one didn't like. So maybe instead of trying to convince the developers (which may be difficult, since they did things the way they want so why change that), a group of players should try to work together on a mod that would make them happy?

Part of the issue with player made mods for this particular game is there doesn't seem to be much interest in them from the player community since they are not "official". Some items are hard coded in that make it a bit tougher to make some desirable changes, but my understanding is they are working on a version that allows more modding to take place.

The issue this game has had from day 1 is the fact that neither side has any penalty (or very minimal penalty) for running away depending on the situation. The eastern front campaign was a clash of titans, a brawl, a slug fest, etc. This game represents the first part of the campaign (well into 1942) as a track meet with one side or the other generally running. Until this basic mechanic is fixed (little or no penalty for running for the hills), then both sides are going to continue to use it and the game will never ever achieve its potential.

Now, that is not to say there are not issues for both sides that need to be addressed if the running is fixed. For the Russians, they need to be made more resiliant. Right now, they can't take historical losses in 1941 and be viable. More of everything is needed in 1941 to allow the Russians to take the beating they took historically and still be viable. They also need to be able to inflict some damage on the Germans. Right now, Russian counter attacks are extremely far and few between and that simply is not what happen historically. For the Germans, the Russians need to be tweaked down a bit in the winter, especially in the mobility department. Should the Germans decide to stand and fight as they did historically, they are going to lose a lot of units against good Russian players while they never lost any major formations like divisions during the real winter campaign. There are other things, but this is sort of the tip of the ice berg here.

[morvael]

Maybe instead of asking the developers to "fix" things, which they may not respond to because they may not agree with some players, or it would amount to a lot of work for which they get no pay (patches are free), we could ask for them to open up the engine for modding. Like putting all constants used in hardcoded formulas to an external text file so people could alter them, or allowing to turn off/modify blizzard rules and who is affected with them. This would be easier to implement, would not change game balance for the official scenarios, while people could experiment more with the engine.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

As for the stupidity of Soviet generalship, for myself I never cease to be amazed at the stupidity of the German plan to invade Russia. Not up to scratch at all, piss poor contingency planning, completely unrealistic logistical underpinnings, etc. etc. Extremely amateurish. The German genius for war has perhaps been overblown.

Very true on your pts.


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I am not so sure on your thinking about wiping GHC forses, but 42 will tell.