Looking at DCCB

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky
Perhaps it would be more useful if the multi move button referred to all units in the hex, instead of pulling all the divisional units...or maybe just add a button.

That would be cool. Heck sometimes just advancing after combat requires a ton of clicks.

[henri51]

You can move a whole corps (in a stack or not) by pressing the double up arrow instead of the single arrow. They will all try to go to the same hex, which can cause problems if the were holding a line.

[76mm]

Henri, I perfectly understand how the group move works, I just don't like it and don't see why this mechanic is better than using stacks. 9 times out of 10, if I have the elements of a division in different hexes, it is because I want them in different hexes. I think every other war game I've ever played allows you to select entire stacks, and that is no accident...

[James Ward]

^ Playing as the Russians it really is a lot of clicking because of all the tank and rifle brigades. I like a button to move a distinct organization, it helps me keep organized, but a move stack button would also be nice.

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

^ Playing as the Russians it really is a lot of clicking because of all the tank and rifle brigades. I like a button to move a distinct organization, it helps me keep organized, but a move stack button would also be nice.

+1. Essential, I would say.

[76mm]

meh. I just finished my first game as German against the Sov AI, the long Case Blue Scenario on Normal setting. While I generally enjoyed it, I thought that the AI was pretty lame, and some game features I'm not too keen on.

When I say that the AI is lame, I mean that I wouldn't have expected to get an autowin in late November in my first game; I'd taken Stalingrad, Poti, and Baku, was close to taking the town in the southeast corner of the map (Chapaev?), and was about to wipe out the AI's northern flank just east of Saratov (kind of piling on, and using the north map edge, but still...). I don't expect too much from game AI's, but generally if I get an autowin the first time out the gate I regard that as a bad sign...

I like a lot about the game, but the amount of clicking due to the simple lack of ability to select a stack drives me kind of crazy. I also didn't care for some other game features, like how units, even infantry units, which are out of supply immediately lose all ability to move, or how land units have to attack aircraft on bases, etc.

I'm debating now whether to try a DCCB server game vs a human opponent or move to a new East Front game which I've just picked up; any thoughts from the crowd?

[wodin]

OT sort of...what is the other game??

Also I maybe up for buying the game off you if that is possible..

[76mm]

The new Panzer Campaigns Moscow '42 (Russian counter-attack from Moscow and hypothetical German attack in summer of '42). I generally like monster games, and this new one qualifies, but it might be overkill. The last Panzer Campaigns game I played (Minsk '44) was tedious as hell.

Nor sure if I am ready to sell this one yet; I actually like many of its features and think it could be pretty fun vs a human opponent, just not sure if I want to spend that much time on it. I just had another WitE opponent disappear on me, however, so I'm tempted to do a server game with DCCB.

I'm mainly glad that developers like Vic and Tiller are bringing out quality East Front games, its just that in the last couple of years there has been sort of an embarrassment of riches, and I don't have time to play them all so I have to more selective than I would like.

[76mm]

A few comments about the Sov AI: first, it generally did a terrible job of pulling back and generally sat there until it was almost completely surrounded. Second, it made lots of idiotic attacks in which it would punch a hole in my lines, push several divisions two hexes ahead, and only leave one or two divisions holding the hex which it just took. So it was generally very easy to attack the penetration at the base, cut if off and isolate the deeper Sov units, after which they were dead. Many times I would be on the verge of encircling a bunch of Sov units, and units at the western edge of the impending pocket would be attacking to to the west instead of pulling back to the east.

[wallas]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

Playing as the Russians it really is a lot of clicking because of all the tank and rifle brigades.

Brigades for me have 3-4 clicks each all game. One move them to a rail line, two rail them to Stavka, three attach to stavka, four diband them.

[wodin]

76mm your like me east front all the way. Though I shy away from games above the coy level usually.

Anyway if you ever fancy selling keep me in mind.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: wallas

ORIGINAL: James Ward

Playing as the Russians it really is a lot of clicking because of all the tank and rifle brigades.

Brigades for me have 3-4 clicks each all game. One move them to a rail line, two rail them to Stavka, three attach to stavka, four diband them.

Just disband them in place. They will send back their troops slowly over time.

I use them a lot, especially the tank brigades. 1 brigade and 1 Division in a hex offers a little extra protection from German Panzer attacks. Plus they can sometimes give you an extra hex to attack from.

[76mm]

Are you Sov players playing the AI or humans? Is it fun playing as Sov vs the AI? I'm afraid it would be a slaughter...are you playing on some higher difficulty setting?

tmr

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

A few comments about the Sov AI: first, it generally did a terrible job of pulling back and generally sat there until it was almost completely surrounded. Second, it made lots of idiotic attacks in which it would punch a hole in my lines, push several divisions two hexes ahead, and only leave one or two divisions holding the hex which it just took. So it was generally very easy to attack the penetration at the base, cut if off and isolate the deeper Sov units, after which they were dead. Many times I would be on the verge of encircling a bunch of Sov units, and units at the western edge of the impending pocket would be attacking to to the west instead of pulling back to the east.

I think overall the AI isn't that bad about moving units given the large map and the wide range of strategic/tactical decisions to be made each turn. It is better than a lot of other games. That said it can certainly use improvement.

One thing that might help is to program the use of cards and political points. It does not use them anywhere near as good as a human will.

Speaking from a Russian AI point of view (as I think most people play the Germans) the AI should get a minimum number of Political Points each turn, say 50 on easy, 75 on normal etc. and the cost of replacement cards should be capped at 3-4 times the starting cost.

The first thing that should be done is is to replace leaders with organization levels that will trigger penalties. Once all leader have been upgraded they if should default to the way it is now for replacing them.

It should play certain cards every turn if they have the points. It should always play the fortification card each turn. It should then play the infantry replacement card followed by the tank card. The Russian AI will need bodies. After that cards should be played in a more random fashion. After a certain date the card playing should default to the way it is now.

The Tilbisi supply center should be automatically built by a certain date. It could be randomized but it should be given to the AI as it will probably never have enough points to build it when it is needed.

If threatened Stavka should move for free.

It should not build any new units until it's stance changes or on a given date, say December.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Are you Sov players playing the AI or humans? Is it fun playing as Sov vs the AI? I'm afraid it would be a slaughter...are you playing on some higher difficulty setting?

tmr

I have play as the Russians on Normal with Slow AI processing twice. The AI has a hard time sustaining an attack. It will kick your butt locally from time to time but you will be able to build a line and stop them much easier than a Human opponent. I did not lose Vorhnez or Rostov either time and it never got withing shouting distance of Stalingrad. Both games were pretty much over before November came.
I guess playing on higher levels would help delay the inevitable but without the ability to follow a strategy or identify strategic threats the AI ultimately does not have a chance.

[76mm]

James, you mention a couple of issues I wanted to address:

First, while I'm sure your suggestions would help the Sov AI, they dont address the biggest issue--it doesn't understand when to pull back!

Second, I don't understand fortification in this game; it seems like it would not go over 100 for my units, even if I played cards, etc. Seems kinda low. Also, I noted in the manual that units in frozen/snow conditions get a fortification bonus, which seemed very odd to me--the snow berms stop bullets, or what? In most games I've seen, it is HARDER to fortify in frozen weather, since the pixeltruppen can't dig into the frozen ground. I was curious about the rationale for this frozen/snow fortification bonus in DCCB?

[76mm]

Another thing I wanted to mention: I was surprised by the high morale of the Sov units in this game, often it was higher than my German units, although morale was certainly all over the map, I think the lowest I saw was 7, and the highest 100. Overall I would have expected Sov morale to be lower.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

James, you mention a couple of issues I wanted to address:

First, while I'm sure your suggestions would help the Sov AI, they dont address the biggest issue--it doesn't understand when to pull back!

Second, I don't understand fortification in this game; it seems like it would not go over 100 for my units, even if I played cards, etc. Seems kinda low. Also, I noted in the manual that units in frozen/snow conditions get a fortification bonus, which seemed very odd to me--the snow berms stop bullets, or what? In most games I've seen, it is HARDER to fortify in frozen weather, since the pixeltruppen can't dig into the frozen ground. I was curious about the rationale for this frozen/snow fortification bonus in DCCB?

I'm not sure what can be done about the AI movement, I'm not sure how hard it is to change.

Given time you will entrench to 200 in a fortification. I never even realize the frozen/snow thing.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Another thing I wanted to mention: I was surprised by the high morale of the Sov units in this game, often it was higher than my German units, although morale was certainly all over the map, I think the lowest I saw was 7, and the highest 100. Overall I would have expected Sov morale to be lower.

I think if a unit is rested and supplied the morale will rise. I think it also goes up if you win battles. I don't think I ever had a unit more than 50 without playing a card though.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: James Ward
I'm not sure what can be done about the AI movement, I'm not sure how hard it is to change.

I'm no programmer, but I expect that this would be fairly hard to fix. The German AI in WitE has essentially the same problem.

But what do other players think about this "out of supply" issue? I had a couple of frustrating situations: around Stalingrad I had a traffic jam of units crossing the Volga, and I moved one regiment onto the island south of the city. Unfortunately for some reason it got stuck there and could not move back off the island until the river froze a couple of months later. Another time I had a security unit chasing a partisan unit up by the north map edge, and the partisan unit moved on, leaving a trail of Sov-controlled hexes which immobilized the security unit, which I found very odd.