Regarding the effectiveness of CAP over Manila, et al, then do you play with first turn surprise = off?
I have played with it on. Sometimes I face 40 P40s sometimes less than 10. The 50% no fly check is made for each squadron then it is further reduce by 75% of the squadrons that do scramble (the manual says). Thus, the expected value is 12.5% of the theoretical max. I am a bit suspicious based on a small sample size, that the manual misstates the algorithm, and that only 75% of the available aircraft for the 50% of the squadrons that do scramble appear in the air...
I've made some more tests and I more keen to say that a Manila attack isn't exactly fruitfull. 2 out of 3 times, I've not sunk more than 10 subs (clearly damaging 15 more) and I don't really see the need for the full KB in the DEI right at the start.
Damaging the old battlewagons and destroying 40/50 allied planes on the ground at PH seems a more interesting solution, even more if you consider that, with PDU OFF, the allies badly need those P40s in order to do something in the pacific for the first months.
Obviously the Kaga should be sent to the DEI in order to create a supermini KB...
The Plan is, more or less, easy. The Kaga will get to Camra Bay and a couple of AKEs will immediately be sent there too, in order to reload torps when exhausted. An Air HQ will be ready to be moved to NW Borneo ASAP.
Usual landings at Kotha Baru and Kuantan.
Just a minor invasion force for Luzon. 1 division and 1 Mix Bde will be enough. Two old BBs will do the real job as soon as Bataan will fall. No hurry here.
In China I wanna make a push to the north asap. Will change a bit my strategy from my last game against QBall...pretty sure Erik won't do the same mistake Brad did, leaving all those corps exposed in the plains south of Sian.
PPs will be spent in this order:
1- Tank units from Manchuria
2- Air units from Manchuria
3- Arty units from Manchuria.
The Air production and RnD....
well, I keep on thinking... Think i'll focus mainly on the A6M line and on the KI-43 line for the moment.
Think I'll devote 6 RnD factories for the A6M3, 3 for the A6M2 Sen Baku and 5 factories for the Oscar line.
The problem is that the RnD system will slow down cause i'll need to convert 1 each of those factories, as soon as the earliest model becomes available, to production (so, 1 to the A6M3, 1 to the A6M3a, 1 to the A6M5 etc etc etc)... that means that i'll reach some decent versions in a human time, while it will be hard (or very costly in term of supplies) to get anything beyond 1944 any early.
I quite like PDU off. With stacking limits and PDU on, a competent japanese player can really build a great defense in 43/44 and I can of dislike seeing the japanese able to sweep the allies to death in late 44. It just shouldn't be, and I am more of a JFB... PDU off should help balance things out a bit. What I would really like to see would be a bit of a composite model, where PDU is possible but limited in numbers and very very very costly in PP. So sure you could turn 5 IJN daitais into Georges, but each of them is going to set you back many PPs you can't use to get divisions from China or good leaders. In such a "extremely costly PDU" set up, you would see Japanese players spending some on geting more quality IJN and IJA fighters in the air, but not too much.
agree. 100%. But better with PDU OFf than with PDU ON and SLs...believe me
You will have problems with air groups that arrive with accelerated carriers.
Most of them arrive with A6M5b/c, B6N1/2 and D4Y models. You must be aware that You can stuck with groups that can fly models that will enter production in the future. So in extreme cases it can be months before unit can take replacements.
It is not passable to downgrade model with PDU OFF. Right?
So true... however I cannot do much about that. If things get nasty I could always disembark the onboard squadrons and substitute them with LBA ones
Since it is a reduced cargo game, don't overlook the need to have cargo space converted over to troops space. There are some classes of xAKs that are no longer able to do this. It is easy to try to do too many in a smaller port base like CamRahn Bay and and push completions times from less than 10 days to over 15 days.
Since it is a reduced cargo game, don't overlook the need to have cargo space converted over to troops space. There are some classes of xAKs that are no longer able to do this. It is easy to try to do too many in a smaller port base like CamRahn Bay and and push completions times from less than 10 days to over 15 days.
Thanks micheal!
That's a very usefull tip!
Gotta admit that till now i just focused on the air production...which, pretty much, i think i have sortied out.
The strategy is taking shape in my mind at a slow pace.
I had forgotten how HUGE is the first turn for Japan....ouch!
Will try to avoid the mistakes i made against Brad....in that game i didn't look enough in advance and found myself short of many things after the first week on the front lines... Supplies, fuel, AKEs, air HQs etc...
In this game i don't think i'll pull a "china first" strategy. china can wait. At least a full china approach can wait.
First, dear Greyjoy, has Valentina been consulted on the start of a new game? I can only imagine dinner conversations. (over low candlelight, with the last of a good wine)
Valentina: Greyjoy, uh, excuse me, I mean, uh, Nicky. Are we having dessert tonight?
Nicky: Hummmm, should I really convert two factories to the Zero 3a or stick with one?
Valentina: Zero, what? Is this a liquor over gelato? Nicky, you really are full of surprises! What is this "Zero"?
Nicky: Valentina, my one and only love (this week), I beg your forgiveness, but I must really make a call to a, uh, client. My uh, hummmm, client, 59nygiants, has some urgent information on cargo issues regarding my class Formosa AKs.
Valentina: Oh no, Nicky. You are suffering from AKs? My darling, look at me. The light here is so low, I did not notice. Are you getting them treated soon? And what is this about cargo? Can you not put your clients aside for tonight? I really hoped we could enjoy our dessert and then retire to your place for another kind of sweetness (shy smile).
Nicky: Oh, my sweet darling, I really am just swamped with "work" tonight. I have to plan several, uh, invasion....well, uh strategies. You know how busy I have been. But, maybe later in the evening I could spare a few moments for you.
Valentina: A few moments, huh. Well, Nicky, my once and former lover, maybe I will retire elsewhere and you can find a few moments to do something else with your hands. I think we'll just skip dessert tonight! (slams napkin down)
Nicky: Well, hummmm, let me see, if I don't build those Oscars, I could.....(trails off, as Valentina reaches for her steak knife)
If I was to play the Japanese now I would consider skipping the PH attack. Best case you sink a couple of obsolete battleships while leaving your carriers in an area where they can't support the critical advance into the DEI, Burma and perhaps India/Oz... Consider this
Also thinking about that.
However the KB in the DEI is a double edged sword.
Without the KB, i cannot advance anywhere in the pacific...not even Wake, Tarawa or Rabaul...let alone PM.
Also, from my tests, an attack against Manila isn't that usefull... those subs can be nasty, but Japan has other means to counter them...
The usual PH attack hurt the allied airforce, keep the repair yards busy for years and may also damage or sink some precious cruisers.
I'm leaning towards what i did against QBall...Kaga in the DEI and the KB against PH, so having enough assets to support both a pacific and a DEI advance.
But i wanna test a bit more....
Have to agree GJ. The one overlooked advantage to the PH attack it the chance to kill a lot of valuable PBYs on the first day. The Allies are hampered by the lack of search aircraft in the early months. The more of these you can kill the better.
You are really a "glutton for self punishment" With PDU off you are pretty much stuck with some very historical problems. Obvert is a skilled opponent and I think you have to expect the Allies to be kicking you hard by early 43. Your planes are just too weak with PDU on. Even the British air force will have teeth vs your zeros and oscars. The tojo is so critical to Japan that with only four groups available, he is going to just be able to overwhelm them when he chooses to fight. Good hunting to you.
If I was to play the Japanese now I would consider skipping the PH attack. Best case you sink a couple of obsolete battleships while leaving your carriers in an area where they can't support the critical advance into the DEI, Burma and perhaps India/Oz... Consider this
Also thinking about that.
However the KB in the DEI is a double edged sword.
Without the KB, i cannot advance anywhere in the pacific...not even Wake, Tarawa or Rabaul...let alone PM.
Also, from my tests, an attack against Manila isn't that usefull... those subs can be nasty, but Japan has other means to counter them...
The usual PH attack hurt the allied airforce, keep the repair yards busy for years and may also damage or sink some precious cruisers.
I'm leaning towards what i did against QBall...Kaga in the DEI and the KB against PH, so having enough assets to support both a pacific and a DEI advance.
But i wanna test a bit more....
Have to agree GJ. The one overlooked advantage to the PH attack it the chance to kill a lot of valuable PBYs on the first day. The Allies are hampered by the lack of search aircraft in the early months. The more of these you can kill the better.
You are really a "glutton for self punishment" With PDU off you are pretty much stuck with some very historical problems. Obvert is a skilled opponent and I think you have to expect the Allies to be kicking you hard by early 43. Your planes are just too weak with PDU on. Even the British air force will have teeth vs your zeros and oscars. The tojo is so critical to Japan that with only four groups available, he is going to just be able to overwhelm them when he chooses to fight. Good hunting to you.
In the starts that I have had as Allies without a Pearl Harbor attack, I think I've been better off. True, the loss of so many subs at Manila (usually, once only 1 was lost!!) does hurt some, and faster pace of Imperial operations in the DEI matters. But it was really nice having all those old BBs still available, and having all the PBYs intact just massively simplified my life. The other things all matter in the balance of it, but the PBY issue is practically overwhelming.
Of course, the same thing can happen with a PH attack if the attacker eases up on the airfields to hit the port harder.
Can I suggest sending 2 tank regimens to Urumchi ? It is easy to take 50 oil centers and you can have it before 1 Jan '42.
An early drive towards urmchi can pay off, but i really do't know if i wanna have two tank rgts stuck there in the far north of china when they could be critical in the open plains. Untill i can conquer and liberate the major road from umruchi to lanchow and sian, those oil fields aren't gonna be of any use...
First, dear Greyjoy, has Valentina been consulted on the start of a new game? I can only imagine dinner conversations. (over low candlelight, with the last of a good wine)
Valentina: Greyjoy, uh, excuse me, I mean, uh, Nicky. Are we having dessert tonight?
Nicky: Hummmm, should I really convert two factories to the Zero 3a or stick with one?
Valentina: Zero, what? Is this a liquor over gelato? Nicky, you really are full of surprises! What is this "Zero"?
Nicky: Valentina, my one and only love (this week), I beg your forgiveness, but I must really make a call to a, uh, client. My uh, hummmm, client, 59nygiants, has some urgent information on cargo issues regarding my class Formosa AKs.
Valentina: Oh no, Nicky. You are suffering from AKs? My darling, look at me. The light here is so low, I did not notice. Are you getting them treated soon? And what is this about cargo? Can you not put your clients aside for tonight? I really hoped we could enjoy our dessert and then retire to your place for another kind of sweetness (shy smile).
Nicky: Oh, my sweet darling, I really am just swamped with "work" tonight. I have to plan several, uh, invasion....well, uh strategies. You know how busy I have been. But, maybe later in the evening I could spare a few moments for you.
Valentina: A few moments, huh. Well, Nicky, my once and former lover, maybe I will retire elsewhere and you can find a few moments to do something else with your hands. I think we'll just skip dessert tonight! (slams napkin down)
Nicky: Well, hummmm, let me see, if I don't build those Oscars, I could.....(trails off, as Valentina reaches for her steak knife)
Ahahahahahahah!!!
To be honest when i told Valentina i raised the white flag with Mr.kane she was quite pleased....
But she has met Erik twice in London now and, finding him cute and gentle has surely helped when i told her that i was hooked up again in a AE brand new relationship[:D]
Yesterday night we were in bed...both reading... And she asked me: what are u reading dear?
Fire in the Sky ... I told her
What does it talk about?
Air war in the south pacific... You know i have to set my mind for the upcoming match woth Erik...
...oh...i see.... She said [8|]
If I was to play the Japanese now I would consider skipping the PH attack. Best case you sink a couple of obsolete battleships while leaving your carriers in an area where they can't support the critical advance into the DEI, Burma and perhaps India/Oz... Consider this
Also thinking about that.
However the KB in the DEI is a double edged sword.
Without the KB, i cannot advance anywhere in the pacific...not even Wake, Tarawa or Rabaul...let alone PM.
Also, from my tests, an attack against Manila isn't that usefull... those subs can be nasty, but Japan has other means to counter them...
The usual PH attack hurt the allied airforce, keep the repair yards busy for years and may also damage or sink some precious cruisers.
I'm leaning towards what i did against QBall...Kaga in the DEI and the KB against PH, so having enough assets to support both a pacific and a DEI advance.
But i wanna test a bit more....
Have to agree GJ. The one overlooked advantage to the PH attack it the chance to kill a lot of valuable PBYs on the first day. The Allies are hampered by the lack of search aircraft in the early months. The more of these you can kill the better.
You are really a "glutton for self punishment" With PDU off you are pretty much stuck with some very historical problems. Obvert is a skilled opponent and I think you have to expect the Allies to be kicking you hard by early 43. Your planes are just too weak with PDU on. Even the British air force will have teeth vs your zeros and oscars. The tojo is so critical to Japan that with only four groups available, he is going to just be able to overwhelm them when he chooses to fight. Good hunting to you.
I've just made another series of tests... The KB, detatched of the Kaga, with Kates on Port attack and vals on AF, can heavily damage 5 BBs and destroy 30/40 planes on the ground... Enough to make it worth
Sure, i know the allies are gonna hit me hard in 1943.... But with SLs i truly think that the only way to play a campaign is with PDU OFF now... I may be wrong but for sure we're up to something interesting here!
Blind sniper... We're gonna play with the reduced cargo DBB scenario, extended map, SLs and PDU OFF... Don't know the exact number now
Ah, the fairer sex. Will but they could only understand males without whining. This is said as my female cat whines in my lap for more petting as I try to type this. It is hopeless (pet, pet, scratch ears, pet, pet). Why do cats always smile? I think the furry little critters know universal truths, but will share them only with other cats. I feel inferior in their regal presence.
As to attacking PH. I would. Those old, slow BBs represent a lot of VPs. This game is meant to be played for VPs. I know many don't, but I truly believe the game Victory Conditions are a design element that should be respected. But, besides all that, those old bruisers can be made useful in countering his old, slow brutes in the early going. As the game progresses, they are useful in bombardment roles. They are also nice CV AC torpedo magnets when your CVs happen on his. Not in the same TFs with the CVs, but if stationed just in front, some of the IJN CV AC are drawn like bees to nectar. It saved two of my CVs from certain death in one of my CV engagements. I find them useful in certain roles both early and late in games.
Moreover, a PH strike (as previously pointed out by someone) KOs a lot of Catalinas. From the IJ perspective this is a major plus. A blind/myoptic enemy is an enemy susceptible to more surprise attacks.
Finally, while having the KB in the eastern Pacific does slow things in the DEI/Philippines, I don't think it slows things very much. The DEI is going to be yours quickly regardless of where KB goes even against a very good opponent. A little patience in those confines waters will reduce losses in that endeavor and should have little or no detrimental effect on the flow of oil and resources.
I have 26 production factories available and 84 RnD factories. Gotta decide...
This is my proposal...what do u all think?
Production (forget the effective numbers produced, just the production line for the moment matters):
1 x A6M2
1 x B5N1 (until engines are exhausted, then RnD)
1 x B5N2 (Kate)
1 x D3A1 (Val)
1 x E13A1 (Jake)
1 x Glen
1 x Pete
1 x Nell
1 x Betty
1 x Mavis
1 x KI-21c (converted to RnD)
1 x KI-21-IIa
1 x Nate (converted to RnD)
1 x Nate (left in production)
1 x Ida (left in production)
2 x KI-43a (converted to RnD)
1 x KI-43 Ic
1 x KI-46 I (converted to RnD)
1 x KI-46 II
1 x KI-48 Ib
1 x KI-48 Ib (converted to RnD)
1 x KI-51 (Sonia) converted to RnD)
1 x KI-51 (left in production)
1 x KI-56 Thalia (converted to RnD)
1 x KI-57 I
So we're gonna get 7 RnD factories out of the 26 production ones, bringing the total RnD factories to 91
This is the RnD Plann with those 91 factories
3 x Rufe
1 x A6M2Sen Baku
4 x A6M3
1 x A6M5d
1 x A7M2
1 x A7M3-j
3 x B6N1
3 x B7A2
4 x D4Y1
1 x D4Y1-c
1 x D4Y2-S
1 x D5Y1
1 x G4M1-L
1 x H6K2-L
1 x H8K1
1 x H8K2-L
1 x J1N1-C
2 x J1N1-S
3 x J2M3
1 x J7W1
1 x Ki102a
1 x KI-102b
1 x KI-102c
1 x KI-115a
1 x KI-119 (didn't find yet a group that upgrades to this one...)
6 x KI-43 IIa
5 x KI-44a
3 x KI-45a
1 x KI-45d
1 x KI-46 KAI
1 x KI-49a
1 x KI-49KAI
1 x KI-54c
3 x KI-61a
1 x KI-61c
2 x KI-67a
1 x KI-67(T)
4 x KI.-83
5 x KI-84a
2 x KI-84b
1 x KI-94
1 x Tabby
1 x Rex
3 x N1K1
1 x P1Y1
1 x P1Y2-S
1 x Lorna
1 x Toka
Unfortunately I need to produce almost every single a/c so I really cannot concentrate and focus on few upgrade lines...need to spread the resources among many planes...
also there are quite a lot of planes that, being important in a PDU ON environement, are almost useless in a PDU OFF one, cause very few groups can upgrade to them (P1Y1 comes to my mind, along with J2M series and K1K one...)
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