21 inch MK14 torpedo

[Misconduct]

I am curious, if lets say Admirals Edition was in Europe, the Germans had some torpedoes that were homing, would the "hit" rate for these torpedoes be much higher? How would a homing torpedo be added?

/just bored

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: sandlance

In 1943 the Mk16 Torpedo went into production and began to replace the Mk14, this was a very slow process. The warhead problems were fixed and the fuel was changed from methenol to Hyrogen Peroxide. No more Torpedo Juice.

FTG1ss

My sources say this is not true. The Mk 16 was generally considered an expensive failure, and only 1700 were produced. It did not reach the fleet until 1945 and did not deploy in any kind of widespread way. It stayed in inactive inventory until the mid-1970s, but was not a mainline weapon.

The Mk14 was a mainline weapon until almost 1980, and was widely sold to foreign navies. My dad's Guppy boat carried them in the 1960s (in a mix), and my SSBN deployed with some in the 1960s as well. (Maybe 1970s; I don't know when the shift to the Mk 37 happened. We carried a mix of Mk 37 and Mk 48s on my first patrol in 1982.)

As I recall, Conqueror hit General Belgrano with Mk 14s.

[AW1Steve]

HMS Conqueror used a British made torpedo , not American. I believe it was a MK 8. Sprior could tell us for sure.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

I am curious, if lets say Admirals Edition was in Europe, the Germans had some torpedoes that were homing, would the "hit" rate for these torpedoes be much higher? How would a homing torpedo be added?

/just bored

As I understand it the dates for the dud rate changes are in the EXE file, but the rate itself, as well as the "hit rate" parameters, are all data and can be changed in the editor. What the numbers ought to be for German homing torpedoes I have no idea. Many times they were firing into huge convoys in fairly dense formations. Whether they hit what ship they were aiming at is a question.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

HMS Conqueror used a British made torpedo , not American. I believe it was a MK 8. Sprior could tell us for sure.

I remember "Tigerfish", but I don't know its pedigree. Media reports had it a straight-runner, not a homer. I think the launch range was about 1000 yards, maybe even 800. Belgrano had no business operating in that threat environment.

[AW1Steve]

Tigerfish is a modern torpedo. MK8 was a WW2 torpedo, a straight runner. I recall at the time that it was appropriate to use ww2 fish on a ww2 ship. Tigerfish was NOT used.

[witpqs]

Wiki says Mk 8.

[Mac Linehan]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

HMS Conqueror used a British made torpedo , not American. I believe it was a MK 8. Sprior could tell us for sure.

Steve -

I do believe that you are correct.

Mac

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Tigerfish is a modern torpedo. MK8 was a WW2 torpedo, a straight runner. I recall at the time that it was appropriate to use ww2 fish on a ww2 ship. Tigerfish was NOT used.

I was going from memory. Looking it up sez HMS Conquerer had Mk 8 and Tigerfish on board, but Tigerfish was extremely unreliable. The same Wiki sez five were tested when the boats returned from the Falklands War; two failed completely and the other three did not hit a hulk target. An interim program improved Tigerfish after the Falklands before Spearfish was ready.

I used to correspond with a British engineer working on the Spearfish project; he spoke quite a bit about Tigerfish. I must have had that on my mind. I knew Belgrano was sunk with non-homing.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Tigerfish is a modern torpedo. MK8 was a WW2 torpedo, a straight runner. I recall at the time that it was appropriate to use ww2 fish on a ww2 ship. Tigerfish was NOT used.

I was going from memory. Looking it up sez HMS Conquerer had Mk 8 and Tigerfish on board, but Tigerfish was extremely unreliable. The same Wiki sez five were tested when the boats returned from the Falklands War; two failed completely and the other three did not hit a hulk target. An interim program improved Tigerfish after the Falklands before Spearfish was ready.

I used to correspond with a British engineer working on the Spearfish project; he spoke quite a bit about Tigerfish. I must have had that on my mind. I knew Belgrano was sunk with non-homing.

I read that HMS Conqueror log that was linked here a few months ago, and I did remember that they used the old non-homing torpedoes. That log was very enlightening reading. BTW, IIRC they were periodically directed by headquarters on what torps to load! [X(]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Tigerfish is a modern torpedo. MK8 was a WW2 torpedo, a straight runner. I recall at the time that it was appropriate to use ww2 fish on a ww2 ship. Tigerfish was NOT used.

I was going from memory. Looking it up sez HMS Conquerer had Mk 8 and Tigerfish on board, but Tigerfish was extremely unreliable. The same Wiki sez five were tested when the boats returned from the Falklands War; two failed completely and the other three did not hit a hulk target. An interim program improved Tigerfish after the Falklands before Spearfish was ready.

I used to correspond with a British engineer working on the Spearfish project; he spoke quite a bit about Tigerfish. I must have had that on my mind. I knew Belgrano was sunk with non-homing.

I read that HMS Conqueror log that was linked here a few months ago, and I did remember that they used the old non-homing torpedoes. That log was very enlightening reading. BTW, IIRC they were periodically directed by headquarters on what torps to load! [X(]

Torpedoes are "political" in many navies, and I think especially in the RN. The development timeline of Tigerfish was decades, very expensive, and the initial load issued to the fleet was known to not work.

In the case of Belgrano the ASW threat was nil and an SSN has the speed to get into any firing geometry needed for a straight-runner with optimal track angle. At 1000 yards it's hard to miss a ship that long.

I think there is in general a lot of unneeded HQ meddling in warfare since satcoms became the norm. The USA is certainly guilty.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58




I was going from memory. Looking it up sez HMS Conquerer had Mk 8 and Tigerfish on board, but Tigerfish was extremely unreliable. The same Wiki sez five were tested when the boats returned from the Falklands War; two failed completely and the other three did not hit a hulk target. An interim program improved Tigerfish after the Falklands before Spearfish was ready.

I used to correspond with a British engineer working on the Spearfish project; he spoke quite a bit about Tigerfish. I must have had that on my mind. I knew Belgrano was sunk with non-homing.

I read that HMS Conqueror log that was linked here a few months ago, and I did remember that they used the old non-homing torpedoes. That log was very enlightening reading. BTW, IIRC they were periodically directed by headquarters on what torps to load! [X(]

Torpedoes are "political" in many navies, and I think especially in the RN. The development timeline of Tigerfish was decades, very expensive, and the initial load issued to the fleet was known to not work.

In the case of Belgrano the ASW threat was nil and an SSN has the speed to get into any firing geometry needed for a straight-runner with optimal track angle. At 1000 yards it's hard to miss a ship that long.

I think there is in general a lot of unneeded HQ meddling in warfare since satcoms became the norm. The USA is certainly guilty.

The cool thing about SATCOM from a Naval aviation point of view is that they can be "selectively-one-way". [:D]In the early 80's we were playing with it in the P-3 community. It was excellent in using it to establish "safety-of-flight" comms (mandatory--if you couldn't check in with someone every so often you were SUPPOSED to come home)
. But of course , it was always possible to "miss" a message that you didn't want to hear. As at the time it was a "manual" system with no computer interface , there was no record other than what was kept by the "NAVCOM" (Navigator-communicator). And of course the enlisted would always point out "That's what happens when you replace an ENLISTED radioman with a Naval Flight Officer who doesn't have enough to do". [:D] You got to love a system with no paper trails! Now our subsurface brethren....well, theirs was computer interfaced. [:D][:D]

[Bullwinkle58]

I only recall seeing it used once. The CO was directed to be in the radio room--alone--at a certain time--in the previous admin broadcast. We had to be at PD to get the right antenna up and he was in there with the door locked. When he was done he came out (I was OOD), ordered me to get the Nav out of the rack and to have him meet him in his stateroom with northbound charts. In the interim I was to go deep, go fast, and go north.

At dawn we found out Granada was being invaded. And us in the way.

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I only recall seeing it used once. The CO was directed to be in the radio room--alone--at a certain time--in the previous admin broadcast. We had to be at PD to get the right antenna up and he was in there with the door locked. When he was done he came out (I was OOD), ordered me to get the Nav out of the rack and to have him meet him in his stateroom with northbound charts. In the interim I was to go deep, go fast, and go north.

At dawn we found out Granada was being invaded. And us in the way.

I think you mean Grenada. Soviet TV got the name wrong too and initially reported that the US had invaded Spain. Much to the amusement of all NATO countries.

Bill

[Mac Linehan]

Original:

"I was going from memory."

Moose - all those years underwater in a steel tube does....things to your memory.

Not to worry, you are still our favorite Underwater Moose. <grin>

ASW Surface Skimmer (USS Bowen FF1079 and USS Capodanno FF 1093)

Mac

[Feltan]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I only recall seeing it used once. The CO was directed to be in the radio room--alone--at a certain time--in the previous admin broadcast. We had to be at PD to get the right antenna up and he was in there with the door locked. When he was done he came out (I was OOD), ordered me to get the Nav out of the rack and to have him meet him in his stateroom with northbound charts. In the interim I was to go deep, go fast, and go north.

At dawn we found out Granada was being invaded. And us in the way.

Hahahaa .... small world, sort of.

You were outbound and I was inbound on a C-130.

Regards,
Feltan

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I only recall seeing it used once. The CO was directed to be in the radio room--alone--at a certain time--in the previous admin broadcast. We had to be at PD to get the right antenna up and he was in there with the door locked. When he was done he came out (I was OOD), ordered me to get the Nav out of the rack and to have him meet him in his stateroom with northbound charts. In the interim I was to go deep, go fast, and go north.

At dawn we found out Granada was being invaded. And us in the way.

I think you mean Grenada. Soviet TV got the name wrong too and initially reported that the US had invaded Spain. Much to the amusement of all NATO countries.

Bill

Yeah, I was watching Soviet TV. Yeah, that's the ticket. [:)]

I never saw the island. I did see the lights of Bridgetown through the #1 scope, an island where I had been promised rum, cake, and comely ladies not twelve hours hence after 57 days down. Instead we got a cold, deserted Fort Lauderdale a month before Spring Break. Even the strippers were bored.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan

Original:

"I was going from memory."

Moose - all those years underwater in a steel tube does....things to your memory.

Not to worry, you are still our favorite Underwater Moose. <grin>

ASW Surface Skimmer (USS Bowen FF1079 and USS Capodanno FF 1093)

Mac

Ah, the old single-screw, "you are very expendable" FFs. I took a two-day cruise on USS Elmer Montgomery while in NJROTC in 1974. Up to Bloodsworth Island in the northern Chesapeake Bay for some night 5in. bombardment. I got to pull the triggers on one round. Pretty cool when you're 15 YO.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Feltan

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I only recall seeing it used once. The CO was directed to be in the radio room--alone--at a certain time--in the previous admin broadcast. We had to be at PD to get the right antenna up and he was in there with the door locked. When he was done he came out (I was OOD), ordered me to get the Nav out of the rack and to have him meet him in his stateroom with northbound charts. In the interim I was to go deep, go fast, and go north.

At dawn we found out Granada was being invaded. And us in the way.

Hahahaa .... small world, sort of.

You were outbound and I was inbound on a C-130.

Regards,
Feltan

Were you now? Interesting. I expect our days that day were pretty different. [:)]

I took Finance 101 a few years later with a West Point guy who rode in on a chopper in an early wave. I guess he was a pretty good Army officer, but he was best known in our class for uttering the fateful line "My goal is to be the vice-president of my own company someday."

He got a job on Wall Street. I think he's worth about a bizzillion dollars now.

[Czert]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I only recall seeing it used once. The CO was directed to be in the radio room--alone--at a certain time--in the previous admin broadcast. We had to be at PD to get the right antenna up and he was in there with the door locked. When he was done he came out (I was OOD), ordered me to get the Nav out of the rack and to have him meet him in his stateroom with northbound charts. In the interim I was to go deep, go fast, and go north.

At dawn we found out Granada was being invaded. And us in the way.

I think you mean Grenada. Soviet TV got the name wrong too and initially reported that the US had invaded Spain. Much to the amusement of all NATO countries.

Bill

Lol, i didnt knowed that sovied reported spain...mayby they wanted to say former spain colony (if it ever was).