2.05 - Better or worse? Let us know.

The new Cold War turned hot wargame from On Target Simulations, now expanded with the Player's Edition! Choose the NATO or Soviet forces in one of many scenarios or two linked campaigns. No effort was spared to model modern warfare realistically, including armor, infantry, helicopters, air support, artillery, electronic warfare, chemical and nuclear weapons. An innovative new asynchronous turn order means that OODA loops and various effects on C3 are accurately modeled as never before.

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Mad Russian
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RE: 2.05 - Better or worse? Let us know.

Post by Mad Russian »

ORIGINAL: Richie61


Probably not going to be liked over these views, but I have bought FPRS.

You and I have been friends a long time, you know I have never shied away from anyone ever saying how they feel about any project I've ever done. Now is not the time for me to start.

I agree about adding new content to FPRS, but everything should work instead of backwards fixes like don't do this or manually control this or that because the game function is broken. Not sure how patches can break a feature after time spent on beta testing and the general buying public picks up on these broken or not working correctly pieces of a game.

I can't tell you exactly how when you fix one thing you break another. If you've ever done any beta testing for a computer code you will know that's exactly what happens. Not just every so often but almost every single time. A period in one spot of 500 pages of code makes a difference. That's pretty close to my entire knowledge of coding these days.



I have spoke with a few other gaming buddies and they agreed that having another FP series complete or broke doesn't leave future purchases with the warm & fuzzes. I almost bought the first FP series but was told by others to past on it because of broken items or because the game was incomplete. I won't call out other companies, but I can purchase other PC games in a series and they are complete and working. Be it Eastern Front, WWI, Vietnam or European conflicts. I think Flashpoint should be along the same lines.

First and foremost, FPC isn't broken. It plays better now than the day we released it.
Second, there will be bugs in any computer code the day the last of that codes developers pass away. You never get them working 100% the way you want.
Third, what I'm saying we need to do is stop adding features to this game at this level or there will never be anything but what you have on your computer now. There will be no Vietnam, WWII, Eastern Front or any other theater or time because we will still be working on this part of the code. Nobody is saying we are walking away from supporting what we've put out and we will fix any bug that causes a crashing issue or stops game play but to think that we can get this to a point where it make everybody happy isn't going to happen. Every single one of us has a different idea of what perfection is.

I think the series has lots of potential and could be a great title years down the line, but it should be fixed/ patched/ updated to perform correctly before looking to do another title. Maybe it's a money thing or upper management looking to future games? I just feel that leaving titles in this state to product another title in the same era & landmass does make future PC purchases knock down your door to buy your product.

What do you think is broken?

Even when we released this game it was very stable. No crashing bugs. We didn't release a Beta version on the community but one we had tested for months to make sure it was in a state that we would have wanted to buy it if we were on the other side of the counter.

I for one look
at pass games now after getting sucked into the Panzer Command Ostfront game. [&:] I should have really based my purchase on the past titles that were released to sell "improved" features/ content and said "past" on PCO [:(]

Sucked into Panzer Command Ostfront....hmmmm....

I have no idea how you think that game sucked you in. We gave the game away free for weeks after we released what was supposed to have been a patch. Did so much work on it and added so much content to it that it became a game of it's own. Far better than either of the original games in that series. If we hadn't lost the coder it would still be going and may well raise it's head again.

Now a PLUS side [:)]
Talking to people, we feel the graphics are good and adding content like more Nations and weapon systems is key.
You have people redoing maps and counters already, so why not expend on content [:D]

More content? I have given you 2 campaigns and extra scenarios. All at no cost to you. There is to be another free scenario included in the next patch.

We have supported this game as much as I've ever seen one supported. We will continue to support the game, however, I don't intend on stopping with this game in the series. To make more games at some point we need to say this one is good. Catch whatever little things that need caught and add those fixes to the next game in the series.

Unless you want us to stop right here, right now we have to move on at some point. The game plays well has enough free features added to it that it is almost a completely new game at this moment from the one we released last October.

I think you're right I think your view that we don't move forward isn't going to be popular. To support your view though we do intend on continuing to create content for FPC. It just won't continue to be our single commitment to the series. We've already stayed with FPC so long that it's pushed the next game in the series out by about 6 months.

Time to let this game play and work on the next one.

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
Phoenix100
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RE: 2.05 - Better or worse? Let us know.

Post by Phoenix100 »

Time to let this game play and work on the next one.

+1
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zakblood
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RE: 2.05 - Better or worse? Let us know.

Post by zakblood »

+1, yep got my vote[;)]
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Ajack58
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RE: 2.05 - Better or worse? Let us know.

Post by Ajack58 »

ORIGINAL: zakblood

+1, yep got my vote[;)]
"Go team, go! That's what we need more of around here; fighting spirit."
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Richie61
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RE: 2.05 - Better or worse? Let us know.

Post by Richie61 »

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
ORIGINAL: Richie61


Probably not going to be liked over these views, but I have bought FPRS.

You and I have been friends a long time, you know I have never shied away from anyone ever saying how they feel about any project I've ever done. Now is not the time for me to start.

Agree!
I agree about adding new content to FPRS, but everything should work instead of backwards fixes like don't do this or manually control this or that because the game function is broken. Not sure how patches can break a feature after time spent on beta testing and the general buying public picks up on these broken or not working correctly pieces of a game.

I can't tell you exactly how when you fix one thing you break another. If you've ever done any beta testing for a computer code you will know that's exactly what happens. Not just every so often but almost every single time. A period in one spot of 500 pages of code makes a difference. That's pretty close to my entire knowledge of coding these days.

Maybe "broken" isn't really the correct word or meaning here. I meant that something that worked in one release doesn't work after a patch. Say maybe the "counter battery" issue after the patch. I am an Engineer and if something doesn't work right, it's broken. I have beta tested and done mod for PC games and I CAN understand what happens.
I have spoke with a few other gaming buddies and they agreed that having another FP series complete or broke doesn't leave future purchases with the warm & fuzzes. I almost bought the first FP series but was told by others to past on it because of broken items or because the game was incomplete. I won't call out other companies, but I can purchase other PC games in a series and they are complete and working. Be it Eastern Front, WWI, Vietnam or European conflicts. I think Flashpoint should be along the same lines.

First and foremost, FPC isn't broken. It plays better now than the day we released it.
Second, there will be bugs in any computer code the day the last of that codes developers pass away. You never get them working 100% the way you want.
Third, what I'm saying we need to do is stop adding features to this game at this level or there will never be anything but what you have on your computer now. There will be no Vietnam, WWII, Eastern Front or any other theater or time because we will still be working on this part of the code. Nobody is saying we are walking away from supporting what we've put out and we will fix any bug that causes a crashing issue or stops game play but to think that we can get this to a point where it make everybody happy isn't going to happen. Every single one of us has a different idea of what perfection is.

I agree that FPC isn't broken too. See above [:)]
I 200% agree with the support given has been top notch and you guys are in the trenches with us!


I think the series has lots of potential and could be a great title years down the line, but it should be fixed/ patched/ updated to perform correctly before looking to do another title. Maybe it's a money thing or upper management looking to future games? I just feel that leaving titles in this state to product another title in the same era & landmass does make future PC purchases knock down your door to buy your product.

What do you think is broken?

Even when we released this game it was very stable. No crashing bugs. We didn't release a Beta version on the community but one we had tested for months to make sure it was in a state that we would have wanted to buy it if we were on the other side of the counter.

I for one look at pass games now after getting sucked into the Panzer Command Ostfront game. [&:] I should have really based my purchase on the past titles that were released to sell "improved" features/ content and said "past" on PCO [:(]

Sucked into Panzer Command Ostfront....hmmmm....

I have no idea how you think that game sucked you in. We gave the game away free for weeks after we released what was supposed to have been a patch. Did so much work on it and added so much content to it that it became a game of it's own. Far better than either of the original games in that series. If we hadn't lost the coder it would still be going and may well raise it's head again.

LOL! I loved PCO and thought it was a huge step forward over the older PC titles. You and the rest of the team
did a great job on it. I just excepted to see more people playing it or trying it. I thought the game was a winner
to! I think that that other eye candy title that was released right before it, CMBB visions and the coder leaving
really hurt the title. I would love to see it updated or the game engine moved to a new title too.

Now a PLUS side [:)]
Talking to people, we feel the graphics are good and adding content like more Nations and weapon systems is key.
You have people redoing maps and counters already, so why not expend on content [:D]

More content? I have given you 2 campaigns and extra scenarios. All at no cost to you. There is to be another free scenario included in the next patch.

We have supported this game as much as I've ever seen one supported. We will continue to support the game, however, I don't intend on stopping with this game in the series. To make more games at some point we need to say this one is good. Catch whatever little things that need caught and add those fixes to the next game in the series.

Unless you want us to stop right here, right now we have to move on at some point. The game plays well has enough free features added to it that it is almost a completely new game at this moment from the one we released last October.

I think you're right I think your view that we don't move forward isn't going to be popular. To support your view though we do intend on continuing to create content for FPC. It just won't continue to be our single commitment to the series. We've already stayed with FPC so long that it's pushed the next game in the series out by about 6 months.

Time to let this game play and work on the next one.

Good Hunting.

MR

Steve. I would gladly pay for FPC expansions like I do for Battle Academy, Conflict of Heroes, CMx2 and Panzer Corps. You guys should be making money for the added content. Nothing in life is free [;)]
Hell no you should keep adding features or content for free to please the folks out there. Like I said, additional features and content should be purchased expansions.

I WANT to see you guys move on to another title too. Maybe it got lost in my typing, but I just hope to see you guys fix/ tweak was doesn't work or perform correctly and mark the title "done". Then you guys can support tech. issues on FPRS while the new title is in the works.

That being said. I am 99.99% happy with my purchase of FPRS and 100% happy with the support and team [:D]
Please don't take it that I was slamming or putting down FPRS. It's a great game and great game engine!



To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Sun Tzu



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Mad Russian
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RE: 2.05 - Better or worse? Let us know.

Post by Mad Russian »

Richie,

I didn't mean for my reply to be defensive. As I said, you and I have been friends for years.

I was responding to your comments, which I took as another discussion between us. I hate the fact that the internet is so hard to convey the emotional content of a message.

I do understand the not wanting to have anything that is not 'finished' before moving on. I don't know how many wargames I have that I don't play because there are bugs in them I don't like. To a degree, because many of us started playing wargames with boardgames, we got spoiled. If there is a problem with a boardgame you House Rule it. If there is a problem with a computer game you report it to the Devs and you live with it. Sometimes you stop playing the game.

The last thing I would want for the interaction we have with any and all of you, not just long time friends, is your ability to tell us, me, what you think needs fixed. I have spent decades working with playtesters for my projects. The one thing that I prize most is the time and effort that people give me with their feedback. As my tagline says, "The most expensive thing in the world is free time." Very specifically for me, your free time.

We appreciate each and every comment made. We not only respond on this forum but many others around the community as well. Besides trying to get the code reworked and tested one more time. On top of which, I try to create at least a miniscule scenario to include with each release.

New map graphics, new features, revamping older features, etc. it all takes time. We all have day jobs and the highest priority at this time is to stop adding features at this point and move toward some of the major changes for the next game.

Then we will start the process all over again...[:D]

Good Hunting.

MR




The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
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CapnDarwin
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RE: 2.05 - Better or worse? Let us know.

Post by CapnDarwin »

It's the never ending design cycle. [:D]
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LTD
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wodin
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RE: 2.05 - Better or worse? Let us know.

Post by wodin »

Ritchie surprised you don't like the game..it's one of my fav titles under Slitherine.

I'm also surprised that all the people you know who played the game don't feel "warm and fuzzy" after playing it..I don't actually know anyone else who has played it..however your the only dissenting voice I've seen on this forum if not the only then one of the few.
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RE: 2.05 - Better or worse? Let us know.

Post by pzgndr »

ORIGINAL: cbelva
I don't know where you are getting that the game is broken or is not performing correctly or that we are leaving the game in it current state. It is a fairly new game and it has had its growing pains. The majority of things in the game that are not exactly working are things that players requested after the game was released that the programmers decided to add to accommodate players wishes. It takes time to implement these requests, to get them working correctly, and then to balance the game. There has been some major changes to the game that the players wanted and the programmers decided to add to the game. They could have said, "Sorry, but the game plays great and we are not going to add anything else." However, that is not Rob or Jim. They want a game that the players enjoy and wants to play.

I agree with this. FWIW, the game engine will need to evolve to accomodate new features. If anything, if subsequent titles with an updated game engine can also be made to be backwards compatible so that the previous scenarios are playable with the new features then that would be great. At least for this current series with northern Germany first and then southern Germany next.
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Richie61
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RE: 2.05 - Better or worse? Let us know.

Post by Richie61 »

ORIGINAL: wodin

Ritchie surprised you don't like the game..it's one of my fav titles under Slitherine.

I'm also surprised that all the people you know who played the game don't feel "warm and fuzzy" after playing it..I don't actually know anyone else who has played it..however your the only dissenting voice I've seen on this forum if not the only then one of the few.

Jason. Do I not talk the Queen's English? Never said I didn't like the game. [;)]
your the only dissenting voice I've seen on this forum if not the only then one of the few.

Really? LOL! Just scanned the threads and can't seem to find the "not liking the game" or "dissenting" comments? [:)]





To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Sun Tzu



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