Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton-T131- Game Over-Soviet victory.

[chaos45]

Static lines trying to rebuild some still in the south central sector T18

[chaos45]

Rostov T18 rebuilding but getting more brazen as it seems Pelton has sent very little towards Rostov. Hes all in around Moscow/Leningrad which I will slowly start working over his poor infantry left in this sector since they have no armor support.

[HITMAN202]

Post some casualties, my friend. Wonderful AAR. Seems that you will have opportunities around Rostov.

I think you tend to stack defensive units where they would be better positioned in depth. Obviously in front of Moscow and Rostov a solid wall is needed, but not across the general front (AGS.) With that strategy the "Valdai Hills Offensive", late '41 might not have been as successful. But the Pz steamroller was going to run over something !!!

Keep on sharing your emotions of good and bad decisions. It makes this AAR very enjoyable.

[MattFL]

You sound like your morale is down, but on the positive side it's nearly blizzard and you still have Lenningrad and Moscow and in the south you should probably already be attacking if only to generate more guards (I constantly attack the points where the GHC is just "holding" and generate tons of guards that way). Yeah the encirclement east of the lake sucks, but it's a hollow victory to me. He's got 7 or 8 panzer divisions (unless they're broken down) wandering the woods and shit terrain up there and not enough time I don't think to finish the job.

I realize there are still about 6 or so turns before the blizzard kicks in, but overall I think you're in good shape considering your opponent.

[MattFL]

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Post some casualties, my friend. Wonderful AAR. Seems that you will have opportunities around Rostov.

I think you tend to stack defensive units where they would be better positioned in depth. Obviously in front of Moscow and Rostov a solid wall is needed, but not across the general front (AGS.) With that strategy the "Valdai Hills Offensive", late '41 might not have been as successful. But the Pz steamroller was going to run over something !!!

Keep on sharing your emotions of good and bad decisions. It makes this AAR very enjoyable.

In regards to stacks, it's really difficult to comment on that without seeing the CV's. If the stack has enough CV to stop attacks then the stack is preferable (to me anyway),

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: mattp

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Post some casualties, my friend. Wonderful AAR. Seems that you will have opportunities around Rostov.

I think you tend to stack defensive units where they would be better positioned in depth. Obviously in front of Moscow and Rostov a solid wall is needed, but not across the general front (AGS.) With that strategy the "Valdai Hills Offensive", late '41 might not have been as successful. But the Pz steamroller was going to run over something !!!

Keep on sharing your emotions of good and bad decisions. It makes this AAR very enjoyable.

In regards to stacks, it's really difficult to comment on that without seeing the CV's. If the stack has enough CV to stop attacks then the stack is preferable (to me anyway),

problem with this is you are fighting both cv and mp, so neither stacks nor in depth is right or wrong. To me cv is the critical part of the equation where I now the axis has to fight or I have no choice (ie Moscow), mp is what matters if they can bypass and keep on moving. But a single solid line is very vulnerable

you need to be flexible over this (which is not exactly an original statement) and accept that a good German player is going to do a lot of damage in the opening 18-20 turns.

reading between lines, part of what Pelton tries to do is to scare his opponent [1], since he clearly is able to extract more mps than most can from the logistic system there are good reasons for this. But if you respond too much you're playing his game not yours. To me, I think chaos45 has found a good balance so far.

[1] I'm sure that he is really a complete cutie, what I mean here is in effect making the Germans appear even more scary and powerful than they really are.

edit: the bigger point here is if you play Pelton there is no sense trying to use realistic tactics (ie a linear front etc) when the game engine allows the opponent to undermine that style of defense, you have to play to the game engine not realism. Nothing right or wrong about that, but its an important frame of mind.

[chaos45]

As to my defense strategy

Leningrad---I was heavy here thus the reason I bled the Germans alot here for every hex, 2-3 divisions in the front hex with usually a BDE/Div behind to keep building forts and be in reserve mode...this reserve mode unit actually tipped the odds just enough in several battles that I got attack stopped instead of defeats over several turns. Right now im thin here because all of the reserves and even some of my line units had to be pulls to stop the hook around the lake. The south end of the line had already generated 4-5 guards units but I pulled all of them to shore up the lake front and built a new army there.

The Hills, I make a mistake I thought I had pulled back enough but he still had alot of movement points left even after his initial breakthru and continued to punish me.

Moscow...in general I have a 2 up 1 back front at moscow-helps prevent routs and still slows him plus makes him fight a lvl 2 w/2 divisions then a lvl 2 with 3 divisions before he gets a break and with the terrain these are some tough fights.Also all the armies in front of moscow are in general well led with 6+ artillery and 2+ sapper regiments each. Back row is all reserve mode and in terrain with level 2 forts he would have had to make a major push to make headway, at which point reserve armies would have flexed to more fully defend the capital. Until he did the push to encircle the hills I had a full 21 command point well built reserve army to backstop the western front at moscow, I only moved it to the north when i read his intentions from recon and his movements.

Tula I just wanted to buy time and knew I couldnt halt a full panzer attack thus went to the blob to cost maximum movement....he still got through and almost encircled the city, I got a chunk of the industry out but he captured some, also the oka is my final stop line. Real military tactics do work defending both sides of a river line is critical IMO I used to think not but the more Im playing this game the more Im realizing how critical it is to defensive success.

In the south the reason on im on the west side of the river is A) Threat in being he cant just screen me out with regiments if Im on his side of the river B) takes alot more attacks/movement to actually clear the west bank and then cross the east bank...plus it acts as an inhibitor to his ability to pocket via movement some.

At Rostov on T16/17 I had went to a single line as u can see from old forts...when i saw all his panzers commit to moscow I knew he had nothing to threaten encirclement with and thus concentrated to begin punching his infantry army...you will see this turns later I have alot of guards in the south by blizzard esp Gds cav.

Also as the weather worsened I pushed forward in spots at moscow thus my lower fort levels....reason is it delays germans units digging and starts the attrition game more which over the long term favors Soviets. I didnt want him dug in heavily by blizzard which in general I think I achieved.

[chaos45]

Actually....I was most demoralized around T13/14 esp when he double whammy'd me and got another army at kursk as I was trying to run away lol.....my infantry just coulndt outrun his tanks.

Up to 1st turn of december I took screen shots of my Total army str/industry/losses/Current guards Div/corps roster.... He ran from Oka south on 1st december turn and halted all his offensive operations that were trying to get a last couple cities from me. Let me get some turns forward again and will slowly start posting more. Reduced Blizzard didnt really reduce his strength that much really even with low fort values...thought at fort 0/1 even in center I might be able to attack but were very few opportunities.

However I did give the Germans quite the pounding on the last turn in November 20-21 successful Soviet attacks was the best week of the war for Soviet assaults.

[chaos45]

T20 North front is stabilized after the disaster in recovery mode.

[chaos45]

T20 North Center again just stabilizing the situation and in rebuild mode.

[chaos45]

T20 South center, recovery from Tula assault and preparing last line of defense on the Oka

[chaos45]

T20 upper South static he attacks here and there for morale but I dont want to give ground.

[chaos45]

T20 Rostov area- also I do have a presence still in the Crimea but its at the east neck as I wanted to keep more troops elsewhere and the crimea turns into a huge death trap if he decides to use a panzer corps if you try and defend the norther 3 entry points.

As you can see from the red tabbed German units I start my own morale building program here in the south this turn [8D]

[MattFL]

Is Lenningrad still in supply with functioning port? If so, just wondering why you don't sea transport more units in or is it not necessary/not possible? I would think it preferable to have more reserves stacked behind....

[chaos45]

It does have a functioning port however if it ever gets cut off less men inside to air re-supply and the city itself still has 30k supply.

its also not good to have lots of men behind the lines just causes routes and almost all those divisions in leningrad are good units or guards...he tried to storm it in november and failed. It will take a minimum of 2-3 successful assaults to get the port if not more with just what i have there....as he cracks that lvl 3...two of those divisions then fall back on the fortified port and it will be lvl 2 at least in woods. The other division routs and then hopefully quickly recovers since they are good units and goes into reserve i have been thinking of moving 1 more BDE in for more reserve attempts come spring.

He stopped trying to bomb the port after losing yet another 200 bombers in the middle of november. It will take the entire luftwaffe to bomb that port in...as I have almost 1k fighters now defending it with my best air commander. An my fighter grps are almost all 80+ morale from killing german bombers. Nope the Germans will have to get leningrad the hard way with blood in the woods/streets. Also even with moving the AA BDE to ground command for better combat coordination if he breaks through im still firing 300+ mostly 85mm AA guns in defense of the port....its a suicide run for luftwaffe bomber crews now...a one way trip for about 75% of his pilots.

Honestly i feel him trying to bomb the port out as much as he did was a massive mistake as it has given me a very capable fighter airforce going into 1942...going to be rough for the luftwaffe by the end of 1942. Those fighter grps were nothing special and i was just hoping mass would stop him but turn after turn he sent bombers in with no escorts most of the time and i have alot of fighter grps with 75+ kills now and experience/morale over 80+ gonna be rough for the luftwaffe going forward. Also im sure the quality of his bomber force has declined as well due to the heavy losses.

[M60A3TTS]

Are you saying you have 15 PVO air regiments under one command? I'd like to see a screenshot of that. [:)]

[chaos45]

12 or 13 under leningrad front almost all airgrps at full strength [8D]

Not all PVO but a mix of different bases anyway all fully stacked with 9 air grps each.

Didnt understand how the Soviet airforce worked when i first started...has already cost me several guard airbase promotions...been working on fixing it the last severl turns.

Didnt know about the SAD airbase disband and them not being able to get guards....my highest scoring fighter grp is sitting at an SAD airbase....should have been a guards airbase by now if I can disbanded them and re-built other airbases....working on fixing this in both my current games.

As I have said lots of wargaming experience, limited on this game...learning this game as I go with lots of rulebook reading...think i have most the rules down now [;)]

[M60A3TTS]

Then may I assume that the defending rifle divisions are assigned directly to the Front? Otherwise I don't see that the air defense assets would be committed.

[chaos45]

The planes fly for any units in the front they are attached to or at least have a chance to. Thats my understanding of how air units work and it seems to be playing out just fine in my game.

Initially I had a bunch of extra Heavy AA regiments in the Air HQ....when he bombed the port those regiments would aid the AA BDE defending the port or airbase which was at the port. My land HQ in leningrad also has extra AA regiments so now that I transfered the AA BDE to the land HQ the land HQ sends those AA regiments to assist. It has actually worked really well and worked better than the AA I assigned to the port which didnt seem to fire at all.

[Bob12]

This is a very good game, defense of Leningrad was 1st class, rare too see pelton fail at taking that city and a huge blow to the germans as he cant just let the finns take over that part of the front. What are the sov/axis casualties currently?