More on OOB accuracy

[Ballan]

Carlos Hathcock did indeed use the M2 in Vietnam. The .50 cal was set up and sighted on a specific spot, knowing the the enemy V.C would pass by a certain path riding his bike. This is far removed from hitting a moving target at 2,000 metres + in battlefield conditions. There was a case in the Gulf war where a US sniper with a .50 cal Barrett got a confirmed kill at 1,800 metres, with unconfirmed kills at even greater ranges.

[panda124c]

So on the subject of the OOB errors to report, The French have a 25mm AT gun that has and icon of an M3 Halftrack, as does their Fuel Dump. Version 4.4 Campain Game (I forget the exact name) but the ivasion of NA by the Americans.

The OOB is connected to the icon files is there a way to get a print out of the Icon files so that I can tell which number goes with which icon???

[Warhorse]

Originally posted by pbear:
So on the subject of the OOB errors to report, The French have a 25mm AT gun that has and icon of an M3 Halftrack, as does their Fuel Dump. Version 4.4 Campain Game (I forget the exact name) but the ivasion of NA by the Americans.

The OOB is connected to the icon files is there a way to get a print out of the Icon files so that I can tell which number goes with which icon???

Yes, in the main directory of SPWAW, there should be a txt file called Icon data list Oct.26, or something to that nature. If not in the main, try documents folder in the game, this can be printed out. It has a lot of code numbers designating shp files and such, too much to go into here, but the number before the vehicle/weapon name, is the icon number entered in the oob at graphic slot.

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Mike Amos
Meine Ehre Heisst Treue

[panda124c]

Originally posted by Warhorse:
Yes, in the main directory of SPWAW, there should be a txt file called Icon data list Oct.26, or something to that nature. If not in the main, try documents folder in the game, this can be printed out. It has a lot of code numbers designating shp files and such, too much to go into here, but the number before the vehicle/weapon name, is the icon number entered in the oob at graphic slot.

Thank you.

[Unhappy Camper]

Personally I don't think the Matrix created scenarios are all that sacred. If they hadn't screwed up the Oob files in the first place, they wouldn't be faced with redoing all of the scenarios. I appreciate that a game like this is a lot or work, but if you're going to be releasing something like this to the public, even for free, it should be accurate, and work properly. There are some glaring errors in the army lists. Most notably is the armor ratings for a lot of the tanks. There is a definite leaning towards the Germans in this. The front turret on the Tiger is listed as 176mm, when all the historical info I've seen says 100mm. The Sherman M4A3 in the game is listed around the 75mm mark, I've seen at least four sources list the frontal hull armor as 100 to 110mm. And even the organizations are screwy. According to the TO&E included with the game a US Mech Inf platoon should have three squads of men, with MGs and Mortars and Half-Tracks. The game only gives them two squads, and adds an AT gun, but you can't fit everything into the HTs provided. They've contradicted themselves. And they've included many weapons that were never used operationally. The 128mm AT gun, the Maus tank, 105mm RCL. All of them German by the way. I understand that play must be balanced, but then don't claim you're going for historical accuracy. I've seen several messages arguing about the 50cal, guys, it was a big, heavy machine gun. I fired a heavy bullet a really long way. The Germans never, never developed a heavy machine gun. So the 50cal should have a huge range advantage. As to the 90mm AA guns for the US, later models were in fact equipped with sites for use against ground targets, and they were almost certainly more accurate than the German 88.

[Belaja smert]

Originally posted by Unhappy Camper:
Personally I don't think the Matrix created scenarios are all that sacred. If they hadn't screwed up the Oob files in the first place, they wouldn't be faced with redoing all of the scenarios. I appreciate that a game like this is a lot or work, but if you're going to be releasing something like this to the public, even for free, it should be accurate, and work properly. There are some glaring errors in the army lists. Most notably is the armor ratings for a lot of the tanks. There is a definite leaning towards the Germans in this. The front turret on the Tiger is listed as 176mm, when all the historical info I've seen says 100mm. The Sherman M4A3 in the game is listed around the 75mm mark, I've seen at least four sources list the frontal hull armor as 100 to 110mm. And even the organizations are screwy. According to the TO&E included with the game a US Mech Inf platoon should have three squads of men, with MGs and Mortars and Half-Tracks. The game only gives them two squads, and adds an AT gun, but you can't fit everything into the HTs provided. They've contradicted themselves. And they've included many weapons that were never used operationally. The 128mm AT gun, the Maus tank, 105mm RCL. All of them German by the way. I understand that play must be balanced, but then don't claim you're going for historical accuracy. I've seen several messages arguing about the 50cal, guys, it was a big, heavy machine gun. I fired a heavy bullet a really long way. The Germans never, never developed a heavy machine gun. So the 50cal should have a huge range advantage. As to the 90mm AA guns for the US, later models were in fact equipped with sites for use against ground targets, and they were almost certainly more accurate than the German 88.

All I can say is that: READ OTHER THREADS BEFORE FLAMING !!!

Many of your complaints have been talked about and make sense if you would read those threads which deal with these issues.

Belaja smert

[Fredde]

If you don't want to use the Maus, just don't buy it or put it in your scenarios. Same for the recoilless guns. I think it's fun to toy around with more experimental equipment, and to play 'What if?' scenarios modeling the use of them. It's all up to you how you want to use this excellent game. All scenarios are modifiable and so are the OOB's. To make this easier, there's even an OOB editor accompanying the game.

[Warhorse]

If you check out Rick Cloutiers, or Fabio's sites, you'de see the TOG was added also, so what's up with that?! There are many icon slots, left, so more 'what if' stuff could be added, but no-one requested them, so I don't make 'em!! The person doing an oob must let me know, to have it made. Like was said before, read other threads, and BTW, its still under construction dude, so lighten up, if we waited till nothing was wrong, it might be a year till release, this way we get all you peoples input into how to implement things.

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Mike Amos
Meine Ehre Heisst Treue

[Billy Yank]

Originally posted by Unhappy Camper:
According to the TO&E included with the game a US Mech Inf platoon should have three squads of men, with MGs and Mortars and Half-Tracks. The game only gives them two squads, and adds an AT gun, but you can't fit everything into the HTs provided.

????
The mech platoons in my current long campaign have 3 squads of infantry. The only MG/ATG/HT combination that doesn't work is .50 cal/76mm/M2A1. Just buy a different halftrack or a smaller AT gun.


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Billy Yank
I don't define "my own" the way you want me to.

[Scipio Africanus]

Nobody posting here should get discouraged into not communicating. Hammerhead brought up some concerns which Paul addressed with his usual grace. Everyone should keep doing that.

Hammerhead, you should know that there was a long debate that resulted in the reduction of the front turret armor of the Tiger I by a full inch. This indicates 2 things: 1) keep making your case, people do take it seriously. Even if you do not win every time, the dialogue improves the game. 2) There may be less Teutonophilia at this site than appears initially.

I don't think anyone would be particularly offended by the word Nazi, rather it is the general application of this to an entire group of people. You are a man of history, and as such you are well aware that many people who had opposed National Socialism had already been killed by it at the time you arrived in Germany. Do let's not forget that tyrannies have historically never tolerated internal opposition and are necessarily minority governments. Therefore it is probably best not to refer to such things as the will of a people in those cases. Since the rise of nationalism in the Middle Ages there has been a tendency toward the false homogenization of the people within a nation-state. Nationalist movements tend to accentuate this appearance of homogeny. It is our job, as historians, to see through this illusion. You and I both know that not every German was a Nazi in WWII. That is why people get offended; not at the word, but at its referent.

Best, and I look forward to seeing your research,



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Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus

[Anzac]

Well I'd just to put my two cents worth in...
If you ain't happy with the OOB's then you can change them the way you want anyway Mr Unhappy Camper et al. Personally I think Matrix have done a great job with the OOB's and considering the game is bloody free than I think that ppl are just being stupid!
BTW I have a great idea for a new Tiger scenario Fabs. Could you possibly do a recreation of the Tiger's 1st time in action? From memory there were 4 of 'em and they were in an area where they weren't suited (swamp and forest) but they did do some damage, and it would be cool 'cos they had some bad luck. 3 of the 4 had their guns disabled but none were permanently lost. Maybe in a future scenario perhaps...
P.S. I come on this forum a lot but I don't post very often hence the 'new recruit' tag. I'm not really!!