PBEM World Cup 2003

VikingNo2 · Post by **VikingNo2** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 6:49 pm

I would like to see no per turn Vhexs, everyone please chime in on this one.

RobW · Post by **RobW** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 6:50 pm

ok, silly question whats a per turn vhex? is this one where you gets points for each turn you hold it?

VikingNo2 · Post by **VikingNo2** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:26 pm

Thats correct my good man

RobW · Post by **RobW** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:27 pm

see, I have learnt something from letting you beat me!

Buzzard45 · Post by **Buzzard45** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:31 pm

There are some hexes that count victory points per turn. Points per turn hexes should only be allowed in Delay or defend. Since this will likely be all meeting engagements points per turn should be banned.

I'd like some feedback on True Rarity On. It stops the "100 AT's in jeeps" concept. Yep, you might get short changed but so will the other guy.

VikingNo2 · Post by **VikingNo2** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:46 pm

I don't mind rarity on

sandman20 · Post by **sandman20** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 8:18 pm

Rarity on, I agree that too.

Stonefire · Post by **Stonefire** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 8:38 pm

If it's not to late I would like to sign up.

I prefer H2H but I have 7.1 too.

I will take any country but prefer:

ANZAC
Japan
or as a special suicide mission

Italy

Regards

Stonefire
Viborg
Denmark

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:12 pm

I'm all for rarity ON.

Bel: OBA = On Board Arty, right? (it could just as easily = Off Bd. Arty) I like that idea too. That's how Gary eliminated me (I couldn't do anything about the continuous rain of US 4.2 in. mortars

)

I also like the buy point limits you suggest. I am more interested in reading DARs about matches that are similar to games I am playing. Reading about a 12K game is hard to compare to your own 4K game. i.e. I want to see what others do given the same resources I had to deal with.

Are we all agreed to my suggestions about forfeits if no word is heard for 3 days + a warning day posted in the DAR Forum? I know everyone has good intentions in signing up, but we need to keep the tourney moving and it is a certainty that personal lives will get in the way of at least some people who have signed up.

Also, I seriously think people should not be allowed to play the same country two times in a row. Being good at three countries would be even more impressive, but 2 is fine with me. e.g. The guy who takes the US/Germany the whole time certainly has an advantage over everyone else. (I don't care for US v US or German v German battles myself)

I also agree about the per turn VH games. They should not be a part of this tourney.

Gary Tatro · Post by **Gary Tatro** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:05 pm

Originally posted by rbrunsman
I'm all for rarity ON.

I have played some games where it just became rediculous. I would rather that we have a rule saying that all players should consider taking a balanced force. I do not take a over predominate force in one thing no matter what Viking or Rbrunsman might suggest. I give them my password at the end of the game and they can look. Reinforcements is different your request what you need to meet the threat of your opponent.

QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman

Bel: OBA = On Board Arty, right? (it could just as easily = Off Bd. Arty) I like that idea too. That's how Gary eliminated me (I couldn't do anything about the continuous rain of US 4.2 in. mortars ).[/QUOTE]
RB this is not true all of my artillary was on board. You could have targeted it with your artillary if you had wanted. The continuous fire was due to an ammo depot. As far as rarity 4.2 mortor are a zero. I purchased one company which was within the 10% limit we set.

QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman

I also like the buy point limits you suggest. I am more interested in reading DARs about matches that are similar to games I am playing. Reading about a 12K game is hard to compare to your own 4K game. i.e. I want to see what others do given the same resources I had to deal with..[/QUOTE]

I agree that same point games for everyone would be more interesting but I would warn you against setting them to low, one mistake and your cooked.

QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman

Are we all agreed to my suggestions about forfeits if no word is heard for 3 days + a warning day posted in the DAR Forum? I know everyone has good intentions in signing up, but we need to keep the tourney moving and it is a certainty that personal lives will get in the way of at least some people who have signed up..[/QUOTE]
It is unfair and unrealistic to require people to replie so often. Sometimes things come up in life that no one can predict. JJ or any number of Americans could be called in for service in 48 hours. I think with e-mail you can keep your opponent informed of what is happening. So if it has been 2 weeks and you have not got an e-mail from your opponent then I would think you have grounds for forfeiture. On the other hand if I e-mail you and say I am going away for 4 days I do not think I should have to forfeit my game.

QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman

Also, I seriously think people should not be allowed to play the same country two times in a row. Being good at three countries would be even more impressive, but 2 is fine with me. e.g. The guy who takes the US/Germany the whole time certainly has an advantage over everyone else. (I don't care for US v US or German v German battles myself).[/QUOTE]

I completly disagree. All this will do is tell you who has the most time to play SPWAW and we allready know that that is JJ. So I have spent my time playing one or two countries that I like. And have gotten really good at playing one. Should I be penalized for this. This is suppose to be the World Cup. In this respect I thought each person was suppose to chose a country that would be the one they would like to represent. As for US/Germany combo I again disagree. Yes US has streangths but it also has many weeknesses. Play against it before 42 and the US oob is pretty bad. The Germans are good but all of their stuff is very expensive compared to everyone else. So I think we should rely on the point system developed with SPWAW. I think it works very well and do not think that you should try to fix something that is not brooken.

QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman

I also agree about the per turn VH games. They should not be a part of this tourney. [/QUOTE] Ok I agree with this.

And RB as far as the reason you and I lost the WC was not to any of the above it had to do with the our orignial BAD PURCHASES, you with Ski infantry

and me with M3's instead of M4's

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:13 pm

Hi, Just kicking around a few ideas. I have to wait for a CD, Jess sent me to arrive. I'll run the Italians.

If we get enough players make Divisions of 4 players. Each plays the other teams in Div twice. Most points win Division and goes to playoffs.

VikingNo2 · Post by **VikingNo2** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:14 pm

Hey its not allot of time, its speed baby:D

I Never watch the replay, except when playing Gary, you would be suprized how much that speeds the game. And that whole # * thing it just slows things down.

The time thing is an issue I already know I will be gone allot this year. But if I can just get to a internet cafe

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

ThomasBELL123 · Post by **ThomasBELL123** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:30 pm

I'll take a stab at it.

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 2:18 am

Gary, what I meant about not hearing from someone for 3 days and then giving a 24 hour warning before forfeiture was not intended to mean you have to get a turn out every 3 days. I meant just plain not hearing from someone and not knowing what's going on. As an example: V2 and I just last week got crossed up on whose turn it was and a week went by before V2 asked me for the turn. If you have constant communications going then you always know where you stand in the game and valuable time isn't wasted. There is a 30 day time limit per round, after all. If I'm going on vacation this year, I should tell my opponent I'll be gone for a week and that wouldn't be considered grounds for a forfeit. If you get called up for active duty and won't be able to reach the internet, then I think you would have to forfeit in the interest of getting on with the rounds.

As for On Board Arty, I think it was implied in Bel's statement that the reason On Board Arty is so powerful is that you can use ammo dumps and continuously reload them. Off Board Arty has the inherent limitation that you can't reload it so you have to be more judicious with your use of it. (Quoting Bel: "Arty does not make one great. :p ")

As for playing more than one country. If someone has to play only one, then I guess that's OK, but I'll be switching countries to Axis or Allies in order to be the opposite of my opponent.

And, I lost to V2 primarily because we played a low point value, late war H2H match (my first) with me as Germans (a heavy disadvantage, all would agree, I'm sure). (Not to mention I played poorly

). My loss to you certainly wasn't helped by learning the hard way that ski troops can't close assault, but I would mostly place it to the fact of your mortars landing every turn throughout the match with US speed and precision.

Gary, I hope you don't feel like I've personally attacked you. I can only provide my thoughts based on my experiences in the first WC. So, since I didn't really lose to anyone else, my thoughts on improving the next one are mostly based on that loss. I can't really gripe about the wins I had can I?

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 4:40 am

Yes, rb, that's my point.

But... on the other hand, onboard arty is always within reach for countermeasures. Offboards are untouchable, in particular when you play Germans since their guns are outranged by virtually every other nation it seems ("#¤"#%&).
Then again, offboards are prone to tea breaks... :rolleyes:

I'd even accept a total of 5% arty (not counting AA and AT). After all, this IS the World Cup. :p

For Rarity, I say NO! If you want arguments, check any reply Goblin has made on this issue. As unrealistic as rarity OFF can be, so is rarity ON. I mean, come up short-handed on frickin' MG's just because you had some mounted in your scout cars??? C'mon! That's not even the same ball park!

Bel says: Rarity OFF.

(other issues: c&c on? yeah, if everybody does it. mines? yea, engineer laid at least)

dodger · Post by **dodger** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 4:47 am

About arty, 5-10% should be the limit, as long as you only count stuff that can fire indirectly as arty (assault guns in german army did belong to the artillery troops, but they still don't fire indirectly in this game, hence they're not arty in my opinion).

About C&C, some are used to play with it, some arent. But everyone knows how to play without it. I suggest C&C off unless both parties agree to it being on.

For that matter, I suggest everything that the two players agree to, to make their game more enjoyable, is OK. No matter what the tournament rules say. If they decide to flip a coin instead of playing, fine by me.

CPT Shoe · Post by **CPT Shoe** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:02 am

5% arty limitation (Combined on and off board) not including AA and AT. .. Does that include small mortars??

Points limits between 5000 and 10000 sound good. 8000 is a nice number to come up with a well rounded force.

I don't have any problems with time limitations mentioned in the thread...Bottom line is open communication is the key!

I don't think that playing only one country is a handicap, unless someone starts stipulating "I'll play American only after winter of 44", or "I'll be Germans only earlier than 43". Don't know what the answer is, but there has to be some kind of balance. Maybe you have to play both sides in the same time period against the same opponent, but then that opens up how to decide who wins if you split games.

Once some kind of quorum has been reached, are the conditions of the WC matches going to be agreed upon?

Don't you just love how each new post opens up more questions and makes a simple concept difficult to execute.

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:20 am

Originally posted by CPT Shoe
5% arty limitation (Combined on and off board) not including AA and AT. .. Does that include small mortars??

I'd say no, since many armies have 50mm mortars as platoon heavy weapons. Makes it too difficult to calculate total points.

I'd say "arty" counts as 75mm and up, although I'm inclined to limit the size of U.S. armies to <60mm for arty. (because those 60mms of theirs are a) quick on response b) accurate to the point) Whatever. :rolleyes: Light mortars should not count towards your arty points.

VikingNo2 · Post by **VikingNo2** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 6:25 am

I believe you should count it all, the 50mm Russian is a very good item, not counting it and playing against a Russian opponent would give you a rude suprize, I know the 50mm German isn't very good but I feel it would be better to just say 10% arty to keep things firing constently you need a Ammo dump or ammo trucks they are expensive and good targets.

H2H makes the 60mm US much more expensive. In H2H Germany's Arty is actually cpeaper than the US it makes things much more interesting

stevemk1a · Post by **stevemk1a** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 10:32 am

If it's not too late, I'd like to offer myself up as cannon fodder...

My .02 is that Nationality is a big factor ... I think a little 'wriggle room' should be involved ... not just one choice of Nat. for every game.

I would propose no Air elements unless both sides have them ...

I would like to clarify if the 5% to 10% arty point limits apply only to the tubes or do they apply to the puchase of FO's, munitions, and prime movers also ... I don't think the limit should apply to the light mortars >60mm that are organic to various formations.

PBEM World Cup 2003

Re: Vhexes

My two cents

I for one disagree.

Schedule (or new format)

Oh Yeah!