GD1938 Game 28

[lordlau1]

12 Dec 1938

The French Resistance wishes a Merry Christmas to all.

While the French finished evacuating their homeland, there is good news! Tripoli has fallen. The Italians are routed; the French suffering very few casualties.

Viva La France'

[lordlau1]

Dec 1938

The British continued massive bombings in Europe on German targets. Chem factories, cities, and shipwharfs all were bombed again. The RAF Hurricanes are now in action full force and won a solid victory over the Luftewaffe in France. More than half of the German forces retreated or were killed. Minimal loss of a few old fighters !'s to the RAF.

The Italians in Benghazi will soon capitulate. Airstrikes, bombings, and ship bombardment killed numerous troops and pretty much destroyed any readiness left. A large force of armor, artillery, and mechanized infantry is now in place to attack Benghazi next turn.

[ironduke1955]

January 1939 Germany Italy

Marseilles the last French city falls.

Looking at the losses for the air battles over the Channel 70 German planes were lost 60 enemy planes were claimed and the claims verified, the Germans have a rigorous kill claim verification system they would be happy to give the details of how it works to the British.

Italy has confirmed that the British Home Fleet as well as the Mediterranean fleet are working together against the Italians, leaving the British Isles unprotected. Germany is working to make sure such confidence is rewarded.

[ironduke1955]

15%/35% Readiness hit during the winter months for all powers except the Soviet Union.

1) Why does 15% reduction effect Navies and Air forces.

2) Why does it effect every part of the globe including desserts and equatorial forests.

3) Why are the Finnish also taking a reduction to their readiness, the Finnish !!! has anyone read a account of the Finnish Soviet conflict.

4) Why does this reduction in readiness apply in central and Western Europe with relatively mild winters.

5) Why is a event that happens once on the Russian front in the winter of 1941/1942 now applied to the whole mod and every part of the globe.

6) Why am I noting reductions in readiness as low as 35% in clear terrain in snow in France Germany and the UK.

The historical context is that the Germans (Dummkopf Hitler) did not prepare for winter warfare in 1941, "Kick the door in and the whole rotten structure will collapse" winter clothing was not issued as well as basic winter preparedness like cold resistant lubricants. 1941/1942 was the only winter to which this applies and only on the Russian front. So why is it being applied across the globe and to the entire war ?

"But to say the Russians were not impacted is wrong also. Entire major battles were often fought to occupy the few standing buildings in the area, just to get out of the cold. Lucas relates a story of a German unit, completely surrounded in a small village and vastly outnumbered. They put up a valiant fight and hold off the Russians for the night, who they know were only fighting for the buildings, but if the Germans retreated, they would die in the cold, so they fought like madmen. The next day the sentries moved towards the Russian soldiers surrounding the village, an entire brigade of infantry. They never moved but followed the Germans with their eyes. They had stood outside all night waiting the order to attack and were unable to move any longer. In full view of the frozen Russians, the Germans limbered their guns and drove away. The Russians didn't fire a shot. They were unable to move. And even after the Germans were gone, they didn't move to occupy the warm buildings. They were no longer capable of movement and most likely hundreds died where they were standing."

Can we ditch the MOD breaker and have a restart if not my password is "Coldfish"

[lordlau1]

I am unable to create factories, fortifications, and my readiness is lower in UK as well. I do see some issues, here, however, I also thing that weather is a major factor. It was a major factor in every war. But, it doesn't matter if the primary antagonist is done. What choice do we have?

[ernieschwitz]

1) Why does 15% reduction effect Navies and Air forces.

Because it was either every type of unit, or no types of units.

2) Why does it effect every part of the globe including desserts and equatorial forests.

Because there is no such thing as a landscape type for equatorial forests, and desserts have the penalty regardless of weather.

3) Why are the Finnish also taking a reduction to their readiness, the Finnish !!! has anyone read a account of the Finnish Soviet conflict.

Because the finnish are of the same people type as other europeans and it would be hard with the current code to make them extempt, unless you made them a seperate people, and that would in turn make the strat tech that allows for every people to be fighting better for you. And yes I read those, I even made a DC:CP scenario for the Finnish winter war, maybe you should take a look?

4) Why does this reduction in readiness apply in central and Western Europe with relatively mild winters.

Because they are applied to the landscape types, and by zones. The zones control the weather, the landscape types control the effect. Of course one could have a different landscape for the Soviet Union, but that would require different landscape combat modifiers to be made, for all unit types, and new movement values, and some extra code, to make the soviet union zone different from the rest.

5) Why is a event that happens once on the Russian front in the winter of 1941/1942 now applied to the whole mod and every part of the globe.

Actually I would have made it much harsher if it only happened once. And if you did study the weather from back then you would discover that there was very cold, in the nordic countries, even, at some -20 degrees centigrade. The waterways between the danish islands froze actually.

6) Why am I noting reductions in readiness as low as 35% in clear terrain in snow in France Germany and the UK.

-35% or -65%. If it is the latter it is a bug, if not its not.

Can we ditch the MOD breaker and have a restart if not my password is "Coldfish"

I am sorry that the mod is not to your taste. I will try and be a better programmer.

[ironduke1955]

Ok

1) because it is not possible to exclude these unit types, giving the Soviets a non existent historical advantage

2) Meaning zones that are warmer than average the year round are still prone to winter effects.

3) So again it is not possible to alter the finns to give them a advantage as opposed to a penalty.

4) Again not possible to alter the zones.

5) Why change to a system that reduces readiness at all, if it effects all countries universally, the myth of the winter of 1941/42 a specific historical event based on a piece of first class incompetence. That no sane player in this game would ever replicate.

Who asked for this change ? it gives advantage to the Soviets on land sea and air for 5 to 6 months of the year, and if it cannot be even faintly accurately attempted why was it attempted at all.

[ernieschwitz]

You are right, a change that does not matter, is no change at all.

[lordlau1]

Ok, here's the deal. Claus, I think you do a great job and you are very responsive to me. This is the first game we are really playing with the weather. It's a learning curve and presents new strategy. I don't think any of the issues raised are worth quitting the game over.

That being said, Tom, if you want to quit, I will attempt to find a new player for Germany.

Future games are entirely negotiable, as always, for house rules and how we want to play. This is a good game and everyone was having fun. Let's report ideas, thoughts, comments to Claus for adjustment and change and play on..

Ed

[ironduke1955]

The MOD is beautifully crafted by Claus and Alexandre it needs no alteration as it stands, that is on a knifes edge to be tipped by the skill of the players one way or another, I like the weather it slows the Germans down in the winter but that is how it should be, it adds atmosphere and authenticity to the game.

What is peculiar is the gifting of a singular advantage to one nation the Soviet Union, nothing I know of should give the Soviets a advantage over Sea air or land in winter over the Americans British French Germans Italians Chinese or Japanese. The losses of the Soviets were enormous just because they had no advantages quite the opposite in many respects, no one tries to model the crass incompetence of Joseph Stalin, why should the Germans be burdened with Hitlers insane decisions.

So am I prepared to continue a game with the prospect of having to fight the Soviets with such a punitive and inaccurate alteration to the game. Good luck to whoever does. Password Coldfish

[ernieschwitz]

I'll look into making a winter preparedness strategic research, or something the like. I do sort of think it is wrong that you cannot do anything to prevent winter readiness loss (and the like).

There are however other effects on winter and mud, that you may not have noticed. Air combat, and air to ground combat, suffers, due to the extreme weather. (It was either that or completely grounding them in winter, spring and fall, which some other mods do). And movement, even on roads, is affected.

[lordlau1]

Ok, one question...I think the Russians are as adversely affected in readiness and engineers as everyone else. Am I wrong about that?

[cpdeyoung]

My engineers have ordered Barcaloungers.

[ironduke1955]

"One thing that the Soviets have going for them is their familiarity with this kind of cold weather, so they get no readiness hit, which should allow them to do some form of counter offensive, in the snow."

Above quote from Claus in Weather description.

When I read this I presumed it meant, 1941/1942 winter Russian Front ground forces only. So much for presumption.

Just to add I was unhappy about 1941/1942 winter bonus, as it turns out I was wrong it was for the entire length of the WAR 38 through to the end for the Soviets (Though in this game this should only be against the Germans) only as I said the Germans suffered due to a act of stupidity by Hitler, if we are modelling acts of stupidity then Stalin's orders to throw men at the Germans in wave after wave of futile attacks should also be modelled in the MOD. But as it turns out the no readiness hit applied across the globe and for entire length of the game. If only I had the foresight to pick the Soviets but they were snapped up very quickly.

[lordlau1]

I have sent Claus a message as well, but what if we were to make some changes that would allow for the same readiness hit for everyone and allow the engineers to still work; given they still get readiness hits, that would affect their EP's?

[nedfn1]

Here is my 2 cents. I am very disturbed by the weather effects on engineers. I understand that weather effect reduces readiness of all units which should in turn reduce the EP of engineers. As it stands now engineers cannot build anything in mud, frozen or snow. This means that in most zones engineers are nearly useless for 5-6 months a year. I think that this will have a strategic impact on the game. This means that a player can not build airfield on recently captured territory to support an offensive with a front that is moving forward against an enemy.

[cpdeyoung]

9 January 1939

Dear Father,

The army is just like home. We all love it here. In the morning we want a swim so we roll a hand grenade on the ice and blow open a swimming area. It is brisk swim, and as a bonus we get fish for breakfast. After breakfast we dress in our nice warm uniforms and kill Italians. We usually accept their surrender by noon. They seem to be bothered by the cold, and their weapons are often frozen.

We train in the afternoon. The Commissar says the Germans are tougher, and I guess we will see.

Serving the motherland, your son,

Ivan

[Bombur]

Could you guys post some screenshots for German vs. USSR combat results in the Winter months It won´t be difficult for ernie to make some adjustments if needed. I think the default game is somewhat biased towards the Germans vs. USSR and the winter would be an welcomed addition as far as realism is of concern, but there is always room forchanges if the winter effect is too drastic.

[cpdeyoung]

It is hard for me to get a feel for the difference in these battles against inexperienced Italians.

It should be understood artillery and aircraft played a pretty good part.

Yes, I will be very sensitive to capturing combat data.

Chuck

[ironduke1955]

I think you will find in Bulgaria they are called Bulgarians or Generic Europeans.

Best to be accurate as well as sensitive [:D]