Banzais Don't Make Victories - Anachro (A) vs John 3rd (J) BTS 5.7

[FlyByKnight]

ORIGINAL: Anachro



However, the scary thing is these can be sent in for refit in August, 1942 to upgrade them to full CVs with a speed of 32 knots. Magically, their a/c capacity doubles. John 3rd sure is a genius.

Fixed that for you. [;)]

[jwolf]

The funny thing about these is that they are better in every way compared to the historical counterparts.

Amazing coincidence, that. [;)] It's as you said, a JFB wet dream. As far as I can see, it's really a fantasy mod designed to give a severe challenge for the Allied player. And that's fine, as long as both players know the score going in.

[Anachro]

Starting Allied Carriers
The Allies start out with:

4 CVs (2 Lexington-class, 1 Yorktown-class, 1 Indomitable-class)
1 CVL (1 Hermes-class)
4 Cruiser-Carriers (2 Charlotte-class, 1 Melbourne-class, 1 Vindictive-class)

The new things here are a British CV existing from the start with no withdrawal date (CV Indomitable), but more-so are the four cruiser-carrier hybrids, which can later on convert to CVLs (sadly the Hermes cannot upgrade to a CV and double its a/c capacity). These produce roughly two CVL variants. First is the Charlotte-class. With decent speed of 32 knots, decent armor, and ~1600 AA defense, these things are nice little additions to the fleet. Moreover, they have a relatively quick 4-month conversion time when turning them into CVLs.



The next classes are the Melbourne and Vindictive-class cruiser hybrids, which also convert to CVLs. While these are listed as separate classes, their stats are identical to my eye and there is little difference between them. When converted, their speed drops to 30, they have okay armoring, and decent AA defense (~1000). However, their conversion time is slightly longer at 6 months.



All in all, these are nice little additions, but they are marginal relative to overall Allied might. Nonetheless, they might be the margin of difference in the first 1 or two years. British carriers are a bit slower, whereas all Japanese carriers seem to be uniformly faster. In addition to the above, the allies get additional surface forces in the form of an additional Dutch light cruiser, an additional BC in Force Z, a strengthened and partly more modernized Asiatic Fleet (some more modern DDs, an additional CA). The Marblehead can also convert to a CLAA. French forces are also more numerous, with some submarines, destroyers, and light cruisers at start.

Allied Carriers Additions
Through mid-1944, the Allies receive the following carrier reinforcements:

16 CVs (3 Yorktown-class, 1 Ranger-class, 3 Illustrious-class, 9 Essex-class)
12 CVLs (11 Independence-class, 1 Unicorn-class)
+ Numerous CVEs

This number obviously grows larger beyond mid-44. Of these, the majors are obviously the 9 Essex-class carriers and the three Yorktown-class carriers. Some changes are that the Wasp is a Yorktown-class and the CV Ranger seems more capable and actually arrives in the Pacific. The Ranger-class, however, does have a lower a/c capacity and slower speed akin to the British carriers, nor is it well-armored.



Conclusion:The US gets some upgrades and would theoretically be able to field 20 fleet carriers, 17 light carriers, and numerous escort carriers by mid-1944.

As we know from the analysis above, this is not a quantitative advantage of sufficient preponderance in my mind, especially given how strong his CAP fighters should be. Moreover, there are weaknesses in the Allied numbers: the Hermes isn't a true CVL, the British CVs have lower capacity and are slower, the Ranger has meany weak points and lower capacity. There is basically a high-speed and low-speed Allied carrier fleet and this creates tactical problems. In contrast, all the Japanese carriers excepting the Junyo-class are 32 knots or higher, meaning they are all as fast or faster than their Allied equivalents. They can operate with complete unity and uniformity - this is a great strength!

This necessitates attritional tactics in the early game, but not in a way where we can afford parity in losses. Attritional tactics must result in inordinate damage to the enemy, otherwise they will not be worth it, as later game invasions require domination of the local area. Parity of losses would fail to provide that. The Allies over the coming year must develop a way to seize the strategic initiative and force the Japanese to react in such a way as to place their forces in areas of tactical disadvantage. I feel John always likes the idea of charging in with his forces and should there be appropriate bait, he will come; it remains to be seen if he will eventually combine his carriers and always use them as such or continue to operate them somewhat separately.

[ny59giants]

I take some of the responsibility for the changes in both OOB that you have mentioned. John was not the one to propose them all. I had a strong hand in suggesting them to him as I recent played Gen Patton in BTSL until Dec 43. Along the way we had three re-starts due to issues with the economy.

Yes, Japan is stronger and should last longer. However, they have more choices and if not careful can have economic issues. Hopefully, these changes will get games into late 45 or 46. This was are goal with the 'what if' with ships.

I'm just reaching end of June 42 vs njp72 (Nathan) as Allies. The Allied Navy has suffered very little to date, so late 42 will be more pragmatic for Japan.

One area that John did overrule me on was what IJN fighters can be CV capable. I suspect that the Allies will need to use their CV Corsairs wisely or the Hellcats will be outclassed by the George.

For Allies, having 75 PP/day has helped. It should help reinforce and slow down Japan's expansion.

[Anachro]

@ny59giants

I agree with you for the most part and certainly am not disparaging the choices made as much as I am poking a few small holes in them at my opponent's expense [:D]. I was well aware of what I signed up for when I agreed to play the mod. I personally would love to see 46 and to be honest I love the early challenge of the Allies even without all the additions this mods makes. As far as I'm concerned, it makes the game more interesting, even if it does delve a little bit into fantasy with the alternate history.

It will be interesting to see how John managed his economy. I wonder, do you think he is forced to make significant decisions in trade offs in terms of how he spends his shipyard points and the various impacts on his economy? And, yeah, really my only wonderment at the moment is the CV-capable Georges.

[Bearcat2]

You should take a look at what he starts with in A/C research factories, while the mod does limit his starting resources; it more than makes that up with it's increased starting factories; look for the George in late 42. Good Luck!

[Anachro]

I just noticed the Realistic R&D was turned OFF. Can someone explain to me what this does again concretely? Will this be a problem or minimal change to the game?

[modrow]

Big effect IMO, because it gives John much more flexibility in optimizing R&D.

Here's what the manual says

"2.4.8 REALISTIC R&D
This switch controls whether the Japanese player can convert the production of factories which
are producing currently available aircraft into ones researching future aircraft, and vice versa.
If the switch is set to the “on” position, and the Japanese player wishes to change the aircraft
type being produced by a factory, the choice of aircraft to convert to will be restricted in
the following manner: When switching from an aircraft that is currently available and in
production, only other aircraft that are also in production can be selected. Similarly, when that
the Japanese player wishes to change the aircraft type of a factory that is performing research
(see section 13.5), only other aircraft that are also being researched (that is – not yet available
for production) can be selected. This represents the differences between mass production
factories and research and development centers. In reality these are two different things, and
freely swapping between them is not realistic.

If the switch is set to the “off” position, no such restrictions apply. This will allow the Japanese
player a greater ability to switch production of their factories to any aircraft type, regardless of
whether those factories are representing aircraft production or R&D facilities."

Hartwig

[Anachro]

@Hartwig Thanks for the info. Given the advantages already given to Japanese fighter development with starting factories, I wouldn't think Realistic R&D should be turned off. While awaiting more info on that from John, here is the following turn:

Dec. 11 1941

A bit more quiet and don't get the battleship engagement I was hoping for, but perhaps that's a good thing. All my surface ships flee to the south and as expected, John brings KB2 and KB3 closer to Sorabaja in attempt to launch carrier attacks against my forces. His search is spotty, however, and while he manages to spot and attack my CA Houston force (for little damage caused), Force Z and my other task forces remain undetected. I will continue the retreat south to safer grounds: first Darwin to refuel and then elsewhere. He might try to follow me all the way down to Darwin though. I will attempt to keep my forces hidden in smaller ports that he might not recon until he moves a safe distance away. Might put Force Z in Madjene or Pare Pare.



At Singapore, his taking of Malacca won't last and I believe I will be able to get all my forces south into Singapore at least. Given the number of airfields he will soon hold, I doubt I'll be able to transport my troops out and might need to fly some out to save the PPs. Most will probably stay behind to tie down his forces as long as possible. The good news is that the Aussies do their part and hold for now at Mersing! CL Mauritius, the last surface unit at Singapore, moves out alone in the night to try to cause some damage to his transports; doesn't get any, but finds a CL and 2 DDs and acquits itself quite well. It is hidden Pontianak for the moment and will move away when possible.



Elsewhere, the Japanese land at Vigan on Luzon. On China, Japanese tanks attack across a river against much strong opposition and will be shock attacked in return tomorrow. Ichang will be isolated and hopefully taken with loss to the Japanese. The main KB has disappeared and is most likely in the eastern Pacific approaching the West Coast at the moment, but most ships are out of harm's way. Los Angeles, Seattle, and San Francisco have had their fighter complements reinforced. Los Angele's is a little weak, but will try to reinforce more. The battleships at Seattle are being moved to Seattle to remain there with heavy CAP.

In the South Pacific, John lands and takes Tabiteuea and Ocean Island; can't tell yet if he plans to go deep there or is merely establishing a perimeter. The real interesting thing is the situation around Rabaul. Currently, my forces hold, he is taking damage from bombardments, and a CA task force I sent there is undetected with enemy transports nearby that appear to be headed towards Lae/Buna or to reinforce Rabaul. There are enemy cruisers nearby, but I should be able to hit the transports first. Maybe I can actually cause some real hurt to John tomorrow!

[durnedwolf]

You should be able to move troops from Singapore via sub also. Not a lot, but all you need is a cadre.

Also - you can't turn R&D back on without restarting the game. My 2-cents is that R&D Off, while it favors Japan for air production, is not a game breaker, even in this mod.

[durnedwolf]

PS - I like the map graphics but I find it's hard to realize\visualize the actual terrain effects for ground combat. Just curious - what do you do to help remind yourself of a hex's actual terrain value?

[Anachro]

@durnedwold Noted on R&D. Regarding the map and terrain, I make liberal use of the "1" hotkey. Pressing 1 reveals the terrain type of every land hex on the map, like below. A bit cluttered, but I only use it to narrow in on the terrain type of the relevant hex I'm looking at, so doesn't matter too much.

[Anachro]

Dec 12. 1941

Kind of a quiet day. KB2 does lots of air strikes in the DEI and manages to sink the Dutch CL De Ruyter with a lucky TB strike from 4 Kates. The rest (Force Z, CA Houston/Chicago, etc. are unharmed and should be safe and hidden until such a time as they can escape. I am consigned to holding Singapore for as long as possible. I remain confident I will get my forces there; the Aussies hold for another day with little casualties to themselves and far more the enemy! In China, I shock his AFVs near Ichang and they are destroyed. There is one more unit of AFVs in hex which will be shocked tomorrow. Japanese forces also rough themselves up in a shock attack near Nanchang.

Ground combat at Mersing (51,82)
Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 13788 troops, 197 guns, 43 vehicles, Assault Value = 735
Defending force 5770 troops, 92 guns, 8 vehicles, Assault Value = 129
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 1)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
969 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 68 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled

Allied ground losses:
74 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

The frustrating thing for me is near Rabaul my CA force somehow manages to completely miss the enemy transports it was aiming for, allowing them to land troops while ending up in a position complete different from the path I had set for them - they strayed quite away from it and I assure you the TF commander will be relieved of command when he returns to port. Luckily, he still appears two hexes away and will try to hit the transports again tomorrow.



Sigint tells us that the enemy is bringing troops to Tulagi, Tagula Island, and Midway! I toyed with the idea of bringing my carriers back (currently en route to Australia), but I do not think Midway is important unless he uses it as a stepping stone for greater things. Even then, it's not that important. For now, I am sending minelayers, additional AV, and CA/CL TFs to sit nearby to intercept a potential landing. CA/CL/DD forces are en route to Tulagi and Tagula as well to intercept those landings. Maybe eventually I'll actually get lucky and intercept one! I'm still amazed I didn't hit his transports headed for Rabaul yesterday.

SIG INT REPORT FOR Dec 12, 41

Heavy Volume of Radio transmissions detected at 111,92.
Radio transmissions detected at 149,162.
Heavy Volume of Radio transmissions detected at 111,92.
5/1st Sasebo Assault Division is loaded on a Japanese AP moving to Midway Island.
Radio transmissions detected at 119,132.
Heavy Volume of Radio transmissions detected at 85,100.
3/III/71st Naval Guard Unit is loaded on a Japanese xAK moving to Tagula Island.

The main KB carrier task forces are still invisible to me. He could be heading for the west coast, but I don't know where yet. It could also be a feint hoping to draw my forces out towards Midway.

[Anachro]

Dec 13. 1941

A mixed bag of a day, but probably more good than bad. Some mistakes were made. First, in Singers it seems I accidentally had one of my Aussie units moving out of Meersing to the next hex. I would bet that John shocks tomorrow and takes Mersing before moving to cutoff my forces in the north. It will be a race to see if I can free up Malacca first. Farther south, I miscalculate on Marblehead's movement and it remains in the open and is subsequently blasted away with some of its escorts by KB2. In the South Pacific, my cruisers again fail to hit his transports and so will move back to Taluga to link up with reinforcements and await the invasion fleet heading there. I also suspect that I'll be able to intercept the fleet heading for Tulagi, which has been spotted.



Near Hawaii, KB has once again been spotted north of Pearl Harbor - it seems it's not heading to the West Coast (though 2 AMCs appeared off of Seattle). It seems my worry that it was a faint to draw me out might have been true. I would suspect that it is moving to cover future landings at Midway. Wake Island was landed at and taken today, but I was able to fly out parts of its defensive battalion to Midway. My DMs will mine Midway before KB can react and then move south to safer waters. Sigint also detects heavy radio activity that seems to be on a path towards the Aleutians. We'll see.

The big, good news for me is that I had placed several minefields in a hex off of Palembang and John's ships run straight into them. Several cargo ships are heavily damaged, as are a few destroyers, and a light cruiser is hit, causing a magazine explosion and sinking her. Not sure which CL - the replay lists the Nagara-class CL Isuzu, but my intelligence reports lists the ship sunk as the Furutaka-class CL Kako being scuttled (worth 40 VPs). Only 1 IJN float plane destroyed on the ground, so I'm guessing it was the Isuzu not the Kako. All in all, I'll take it. The first Japanese combat vessels of the war appear to have finally been sunk.

TF 8 encounters mine field at 49,90

Japanese Ships
xAK Giyu Maru, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Zinzan Maru, Mine hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
23 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

TF 105 encounters mine field at 49,90

Japanese Ships
DD Inazuma
PB Shuko Maru #2, Mine hits 1, heavy damage
CL Isuzu, Mine hits 1, heavy damage
xAK Nissyo Maru, Mine hits 1, heavy damage
xAK Nissen Maru, Mine hits 1, heavy damage
xAKL Assam Maru, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Magazine explodes on CL Isuzu

TF 88 encounters mine field at 49,90

Japanese Ships
DD Asagiri, Mine hits 1, heavy damage
DD Murakumo, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

[Anachro]

Dec 14. 1941

I was happy to note John's only comment in his email to me was "YUCKIE" and, finally, I have a decently good turn for a change!

I make several interceptions of various transport invasion fleets and even manage to catch 3 AMCs that were weirdly just southwest of Hilo. In the ensuing battles, I sink a lot of xAKs, etc. and destroy a decent amount of units. I'm guessing there were partial forces or base units. First, the CA Pensacola and her escorts intercept 5 xAKs heading towards Tulagi, sinking them all. Then CL Dragon, CL Durban, and DD Paul Jones sink a number of xAKs and XAKLs heading for most likely Ambon. On top of all this, Dutch subs manage to sink 2 transports off of Kuantan!



KB moves west. I have mined Midway and and moving ships out of its anticipated pathway. We'll see where KB goes tomorrow - perhaps I can get some supply into Midway! Moving ships back to the west coast to setup convoys. At Singapore, he takes Mersing and now it will be a race to see if I can free Malacca first and get as much stratted down to Singapore as I can.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Auki at 115,136, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAK Genkai Maru, Shell hits 13, and is sunk
xAK Hotsukawa Maru, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Indus Maru, Shell hits 16, and is sunk
xAK Sunten Maru, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
xAK Tihuku Maru, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CA Pensacola
DD Sands
DD Bundaberg
DD Tamworth

Japanese ground losses:
1457 casualties reported
Squads: 21 destroyed, 38 disabled
Non Combat: 33 destroyed, 29 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 5 (3 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Day Time Surface Combat, near Hilo at 182,113, Range 18,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
AMC Asaka Maru, Shell hits 25, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AMC Awata Maru, Shell hits 39, and is sunk
AMC Tabai Maru, Shell hits 36, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Honolulu
CL Phoenix
DD Cassin
DD Dale
DD Worden
DD MacDonough
DD Dewey
DD Hull, Shell hits 1

Day Time Surface Combat, near Ternate at 77,101, Range 15,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAK Hasuna Maru, Shell hits 23, and is sunk
xAK Shinkoku Maru, Shell hits 23, and is sunk
xAK Ujigawa Maru, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Yamabuki Maru, Shell hits 19, and is sunk
xAKL Heiwa Maru, Shell hits 4
xAKL Kidokawa Maru, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
xAKL Nanka Maru, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
xAKL Fukuyama Maru, Shell hits 12, and is sunk
xAKL Horei Maru, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAKL Ryua Maru, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
xAK Taiyu Maru, Shell hits 11, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Dragon
CL Durban, Shell hits 1
DD Paul Jones

Japanese ground losses:
2245 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 37 destroyed, 83 disabled
Engineers: 47 destroyed, 37 disabled
Vehicles lost 10 (5 destroyed, 5 disabled)

[DOCUP]

Nice job.

[BBfanboy]

The ships sunk near Auki appear to have been carrying a Naval Guard unit or SNLF. That will slow his expansion a bit, or force him to skip more islands and leave you backwater places to plague him! [:)]

Great work on detecting those TFs and having SCTFs near enough to intercept! I am sure John was not counting on you being such a tough, aggressive opponent.

[Anachro]

@BBfanboy I've found a lot of Japanese players tend to expect a passive Allied player in the early stages of a game and leave a lot of early invasions unescorted. Perhaps this is because a lot of Allied players tend to do a complete Sir Robin early on. However, if they are more guarded in their early invasions, it slows them down. So it's a trade-off. All in all, it probably makes sense to accept some early losses for an early expansion of the perimeter.

I supposed I should give some rundown of movements:

The CV Indomitable and her escorts are moving down to the SoPac to reinforce it. The USN carriers and BCs are also moving there with various CA/CL/DD escorts. From what I can tell so far, I think John is going for an aggressive SoPac, CenPac push. Base on sigint heavy radio traffic, he might also be doing an early move for the Aleutians. Even if I'm wrong and he goes for India, I feel it is pragmatic to reinforce the SoPac because I think the value of naval forces in India is somewhat low. It's hard to defend all the coasts and the war there, thanks to geography, is heavily dependent on land combat, not naval power. I leave some surface forces in Ceylon to intercept any undefended early invasions he might try.

As an aside, I bought out some plane reinforcements using the plane purchase mod that BTS includes, just to try it out. Bought out 12 P40's and just reinforced PH for now. Although 100 PPs or 12 planes is a bit expensive, it's a nice thing to have I guess.

[zuluhour]

wow, a solid turn! I play for that kind of day.

[dave sindel]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

wow, a solid turn! I play for that kind of day.

+1