The Armchair General's Tale -IJ SURRENDERS- (dontra85 (IJ) vs modrow (A)) - no dontra85, please

[modrow]

ORIGINAL: obvert
The base forces in China also have a lot of support, so between the many HQs, internal support and base forces there should be enough at key points to get units ready and keep them somewhat stable in good defensive territory.

Staying in China, remember that the support is shared in base hexes only according to the manual. I would attribute increased stability in non-base hexes mainly to HQ effects, but that is a guess.

Leaving China, staying with support, I may have to reevaluate the proper use of the US BFs with 200 support squads...

Hartwig

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: modrow

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
Support squads help, sure. But ready support squads, not disabled ones. And replacements arrive as disabled. You have enough disabled support already in the chinese infantry units to wait months for complete R&R, no need to add more. Also disabled squads do not fight, that's that I meant by cannon fodder

I don't think that is correct. We are talking devices, planes are different. See example below.

Disablements stay identical, AV increases. I typically see AV and able device increases that correlate to the number of devices drawn according to tracker.

Yup, I was wrong. Replacements arrive active not disabled, tested it just now, wonder how I missed it

I still think it does not pay to increase Chinese support squads spending supply on them though (not dead sure now) [:)] Unless somewhere in Chunking maybe. More VPs for Japan elsewhere, and easier because of you starving earlier w/o that supply. Would pay off if Japan is passive, but your opponent does not look like it.

[modrow]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Yup, I was wrong. Replacements arrive active not disabled, tested it just now, wonder how I missed it

I know the feeling well [:)] I am learning something new every day in the forums and wonder how I missed it.

I still think it does not pay to increase Chinese support squads spending supply on them though (not dead sure now) [:)] Unless somewhere in Chunking maybe. More VPs for Japan elsewhere, and easier because of you starving earlier w/o that supply. Would pay off if Japan is passive, but your opponent does not look like it.

For this game, it is too late for that in any case, plus one would only be able to do it for selected units anyway.
I am a big fan of active device management as Allied in general, so I micromanage a lot to optimize available fighting power and pools including making use of the option to disband units to get devices into the pools.

Hartwig

[RangerJoe]

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
The base forces in China also have a lot of support, so between the many HQs, internal support and base forces there should be enough at key points to get units ready and keep them somewhat stable in good defensive territory.



Staying in China, remember that the support is shared in base hexes only according to the manual. I would attribute increased stability in non-base hexes mainly to HQ effects, but that is a guess.

Leaving China, staying with support, I may have to reevaluate the proper use of the US BFs with 200 support squads...

Hartwig

Another reason for buying back the Dutch and other units that don't have enough national devices is their support squads are available for all units in a base. The same reason for saving fragments as well, all the universal squads and devices can be replaced.

[Anachro]

I learn something new in the forums every day before I promptly forget it a few days later. Then I learn it again either through my mistakes in-game or through these forums. Rinse. Repeat. Once can never master this game unless they are a human encyclopaedia. Such a thing *ahem* cannot exist. Cannot exist I say!

[RangerJoe]

Once can never master this game unless they are a human encyclopaedia. Such a thing *ahem* cannot exist. Cannot exist I say!

Have you ever met a person on the boards named Alfred? He is like what was Walter Cronkite for US news, if he said it then it is true. [;)]

[modrow]

Gentlemen,

I have digressed. You visit here to hear about blood, gore and battle, about heroic deeds, sweet victory and dire defeat. And what did we do recently? Discuss support troops [8|] (which is not to say I didn't like that discussion a lot.)

Of course, I have excuses, excuses... like I am moving assets and provisions to positions of my liking, there are no flowing operations, the war is rather static apart from the breakthrough towards Sian (which I will try to discuss later today) but rather grinding in fixed positions, and if I set up a little surprise, like I did last turn, my planes don't fly...

But still, I will give you some heroics here from the turn I just received.

1) As you know, I think the pause in IJ onslaught is partly due to the fact that major parts of IJA are still busy taking Bataan. Kudos to NY59Giants form making this stand last as long as it does . A nice result, given that my defenders are virtually out of supply, and a few important days gained.

Ground combat at Bataan (78,77)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 109573 troops, 1254 guns, 792 vehicles, Assault Value = 3130

Defending force 30566 troops, 530 guns, 338 vehicles, Assault Value = 734

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 1697

Allied adjusted defense: 579

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
7642 casualties reported
Squads: 25 destroyed, 729 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 57 disabled
Engineers: 9 destroyed, 88 disabled
Guns lost 66 (2 destroyed, 64 disabled)
Vehicles lost 30 (6 destroyed, 24 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1549 casualties reported
Squads: 114 destroyed, 102 disabled
Non Combat: 71 destroyed, 133 disabled
Engineers: 5 destroyed, 13 disabled
Guns lost 32 (5 destroyed, 27 disabled)
Vehicles lost 36 (18 destroyed, 18 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
7th/A Division
16th Engineer Regiment
2nd Tank Regiment
20th Infantry Regiment
7th Tank Regiment
7th/B Division
48th/B Division
52nd/C Division
25th/B Division
8th Tank Regiment
33rd Infantry Regiment
24th Nav Gsn Unit
25th/C Division
52nd/B Division
48th/C Division
54th/B Division
54th/C Division
9th Infantry Regiment
11th/A Division
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
7th/C Division
65th Brigade
16th Recon Regiment
66th Infantry Group
23rd Nav Gd Unit
48th/A Division
4th Tank Regiment
52nd/A Division
25th/A Division
54th/A Division
32nd Nav Gsn Unit
11th/B Division
146th Infantry Regiment
11th/C Division
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
14th Army
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
17th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
4th PA Constabulary Regiment
51st PA Infantry Division
194th Tank Battalion
21st PA Infantry Division
1st PA Infantry Division
31st Infantry Regiment
192nd Tank Battalion
91st PA Infantry Division
45th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
2nd PA Constabulary Regiment
41st PA Infantry Division
57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
4th Marine Regiment
Manila Bay Defenses
2nd PA Constblry HW Regiment
14th PS Engineer Regiment
Far East USAAF
I Philippine Corps
Asiatic Fleet
Clark Field USAAF Base Force
II Philippine Corps
3rd/12th PA Inf Battalion
PAF Aviation
202nd PA Construction Battalion
26th PS Cavalry Regiment
86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion
201st PA Construction Battalion
Bataan USN Base Force
USAFFE
Provisional GMC Grp
88th PS Field Artillery Regiment
1st PI Base Force
301st Construction Battalion
31st PA Infantry Division
301st PA Field Artillery Regiment


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) Even more heroic, perhaps even more important is this

Ground combat at 84,43 (near Nanyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 5045 troops, 181 guns, 544 vehicles, Assault Value = 2880

Defending force 12673 troops, 104 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 38

Japanese adjusted assault: 175

Allied adjusted defense: 97

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
1008 casualties reported
Squads: 117 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 26 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 10 (8 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Regiment
138th Infantry Regiment
61st Infantry Brigade
68th Division
15th Tank Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
116th/C Division
29th/B Division
12th/B Division
110th/B Division
116th/A Division
1st Ind.Mixed Brigade
110th/A Division
13th Ind.Mixed Brigade
29th/C Division
29th/A Division
3rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
116th/B Division
12th/A Division
110th/C Division
13th Tank Regiment
12th Tank Regiment
12th/C Division
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
7th Ind. Engineer Regiment
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
77th Chinese Corps
84th Chinese Corps
90th Chinese Corps
92nd Chinese Corps


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IJA is pursuing the battered roadblock on the road to Sian, which just bought me one important day.
Don't get too excited about the reduced AV of IJ, only the armor was present in the hex at the beginning of the turn, but those four battered corps HELD.

Hartwig

[CaptBeefheart]

Hartwig: Kudos for picking this interesting game up. I just read NYGiants' AAR, but didn't see an answer as to what happened to the original Portland invasion. Did the Japanese troops get away or were they crushed onsite?

Also, is he still doing 75 Zero sweeps, and if so, are you cool with that?

Cheers,
CC

[modrow]

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Hartwig: Kudos for picking this interesting game up. I just read NYGiants' AAR, but didn't see an answer as to what happened to the original Portland invasion. Did the Japanese troops get away or were they crushed onsite?

Also, is he still doing 75 Zero sweeps, and if so, are you cool with that?

Cheers,
CC

Commander Cody,

thanks for your interest. I think there are many interesting aspects of this situation, I think many of them will be subject of discussion in this thread. It would have been a pity to let the game die.

NY59Giants is the one who can provide the details on the fate of the Portland invasion. I think he drops by in this thread from time to time, so maybe he can give you more details. I think he destroyed the assets that were devoted to that project, but I also think it was a limited force that was used.

I have not yet been confronted with 75 Zero sweeps, and if it would happen it would happen. There are also disadvantages connected to operating with this unit size IMO, some of them more significant and some f them more relevant in different situations. I would feel entitled to make more use of what the engine offers at my end though. If you really don't want to face IJ unit resize, negotiate a HR (which NY59giants did not really have a chance to do, I guess). There are very few HRs in this game, and none that limits air group resizing.

In general, I think I already said that I am part of the "it's a game" fraction, and I am glad this game provides incentives for IJ to try different things. I think the early West coast raid is one of these things. Whereas this is sort of a big boon for IJ, there are also some hidden treasures for Allied if you look carefully and closely, like the ability to equip those Chinese corps I mentioned above with significant AAA/added firepower drawing from US pools. Look for them and use them.

This was a specialty of Nemo121's mod for original WitP (I think it was calles empires ablaze, but not sure any more). He had many such boons hidden. You just had to find them and figure out how to use them in the best possible way. Fun.

But this game is fun as well.

Hartwig

[modrow]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Another reason for buying back the Dutch and other units that don't have enough national devices is their support squads are available for all units in a base. The same reason for saving fragments as well, all the universal squads and devices can be replaced.

@ RangerJoe,

thanks for checking in and commenting. I just want to say that both in a 2x2 team game I am currently involved (and thus cannot control device usage completely) and in this game when I took over there were hardly any support squads left, so if you have everyone accept replacements, you can even run out of support squads.

So yes, there are many situations where you suggestion absolutely makes sense. But pick carefully what you need for what you want to do. I think there are very few general "must do"'s, and generalization is a pitfall in this game of detail and micromanagement.

As usual, just my 2cts

Hartwig

[ny59giants]

NY59Giants is the one who can provide the details on the fate of the Portland invasion. I think he drops by in this thread from time to time, so maybe he can give you more details. I think he destroyed the assets that were devoted to that project, but I also think it was a limited force that was used.

After initially moving most of the "Emergency Reinforcements" to Portland. I built up the bases in the area. I did start slow attacks, but was in no rush to destroy the two divisions there and support troops. Japan then did series of shock attacks to destroy his troops. Recently before Hartwig took over, I did two or three deliberate attacks to wipe out the few remaining troops.


For months I focused on setting up logistics to my liking. PPs went to some troops, but many went to leaders for all the air groups now present to get pilot training moving forward.

[modrow]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum

After initially moving most of the "Emergency Reinforcements" to Portland. I built up the bases in the area. I did start slow attacks, but was in no rush to destroy the two divisions there and support troops. Japan then did series of shock attacks to destroy his troops. Recently before Hartwig took over, I did two or three deliberate attacks to wipe out the few remaining troops.


For months I focused on setting up logistics to my liking. PPs went to some troops, but many went to leaders for all the air groups now present to get pilot training moving forward.

Michael,

I think that containing and taking time to kill the assets was a very good move, because it delayed IJ's ability to reuse these troops(after rebuild). IJ's shock attacks show just how correct your approach was.

With respect to the pilot training moving forward (which you did expertly) perhaps you should add one more piece of information in order to make immediately clear to all of our readers (I guess the experst will know anyway) that this is the best way how to make use of the 6 months "sprint" with respect to the arrival of US air groups. If you check what air groups arrive for USAAF, USN and USMC in a Scen 1 game in 42, you will note that many of the groups arrive virtually without airframes. So yes, you get a bunch of new groups - but even those that are or can be made unrestricted frequently cannot draw the planes needed to fill them because they are simply not (yet) available.

Hartwig

[RangerJoe]

Even if you can;t get the air frames, they can still train in their skill. But without their planes, their experience does not get that high as fast. But they can then be sent to other units in the rear areas where air defense is needed where they probably will not see enemy fighters thus gaining experience. Also, you can put the USMC and the US Navy air units on carriers to resize to train lots of pilot early.

True about the support squads not necessarily being available but I just wanted to point out how those units can be used.

Congratulations on your rear guard action and that is a lot of casualties at Bataan.

[modrow]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Even if you can;t get the air frames, they can still train in their skill. But without their planes, their experience does not get that high as fast. But they can then be sent to other units in the rear areas where air defense is needed where they probably will not see enemy fighters thus gaining experience.

Yes, but are you typically short of US air groups for pilot training? I tend to have a ton of restricted, and some low plane count unrestricted air units available in the US for that anyway at this time of the war for this training. So you are getting something you do not really need, for me the limiting factor is not pilot training (although it is very important to do training as Allied to improve results in the air war).

My general feeling about the West coast emergency package is that it does give you a boost for defense of West coast, but not much of that boost can be transferred to other theatres. I am not completely through with that analysis though, once more use of the device pool may be the way to get best results. You do get an increased ability to rebuild shattered US army units in that way.

Also I have never been able to resize Allied carrier based air units at will. Of course they do at the date set, but I was never able to put them on an empty carrier and adapt their size magically (which I managed to do as IJ). I think that is a IJN privilege. But maybe I'm just doing something wrong, if you can do it please do post screenshots and a how you do it.

Hartwig

[CaptBeefheart]

Thanks for the responses, Hartwig and NY59Giants.

Although I've only dabbled a bit in PBEM, I'm also more of an "it's a game" kind of guy. Once you're awash with airframes it'll be time to biggie-size some of your VMFs and VFs.

Good luck!

Cheers,
CC

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: modrow
Also I have never been able to resize Allied carrier based air units at will. Of course they do at the date set, but I was never able to put them on an empty carrier and adapt their size magically (which I managed to do as IJ). I think that is a IJN privilege. But maybe I'm just doing something wrong, if you can do it please do post screenshots and a how you do it.

I did it a lot in some games. You take a group which does not have a date set for future predetermined resize, put it on an empty CV TF in large port, click through "no resize allowed" yellow line until a window pops up prompting you to enter new size, enter it and disband the CV. Presto, new size is there. Works when no other groups are occupying the space on the same CV and when planes are carrier capable.

Forget US, ever seen 90 size Brit Hurricane units? I had some because they were upgradable to carrier capable airframes.

[modrow]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

I did it a lot in some games. You take a group which does not have a date set for future predetermined resize, put it on an empty CV TF in large port, click through "no resize allowed" yellow line until a window pops up prompting you to enter new size, enter it and disband the CV. Presto, new size is there. Works when no other groups are occupying the space on the same CV and when planes are carrier capable.

Forget US, ever seen 90 size Brit Hurricane units? I had some because they were upgradable to carrier capable airframes.

GetAssista,

thanks. I never really tried hard, but most likely never met the condition marked in red in your post above. And of course you are totally correct that at least in the early war, British carrier capable fighter planes are available in significant numbers.

So one more item for the poison cupboard (actually, I am not sure if this is the proper English term to use for a storage place for something to be used only under unusual conditions - any linguists reading ?). Good.

Hartwig

[modrow]

Gentlemen,

as during resolution of the last turn finally there was some more action (I had failed to report so far that in the turn before that, I finally picked up some TFs moving; whereas the previous turns played were mainly moving assets around), I would like to create a basis for you to get a general feeling of what is currently happening (as far as I know so far) where first to be able to provide you with some more information on action later.

The first few turns I played were relatively quiet.

- No action at all in Burma (which is Japanese)/Bay of Bengal/India.

- Malaya, Sumatra, Java, Borneo are all in IJ hands and not really contested, so no action either.

- In China, enemy was pretty much locked down before they managed the breakthrough by force on the road to Sian. Enemy bombs many basis on a regzular basis and some troops. Interesting thing is IJN level bombers are put to use a lot, and when I play as IJ I always feel I don't have enough groops to cover all the sea lanes/approaches I would like to block. So conversely this means that Nettie threat should not be too large.

- In the PI, Bataan still has not fallen.

- In the southern part of the DEI, nothing really happened, apart from one or two (regular sized) sweeps from Makassar to Koepang (still Allied, as all of Timor and Ceram, IJ has Celebes apart from some mopping up left to do). Here, in the previous turn twop TFs popped up, one (supposedly seven ships, 4 of them "identified" as APD by mouseover) in the hex SE of Manado, another one (6 ships, 2 of them supposedly PG,PB) North of Waigeo.

- PM area/southern PNG is in IJ hands, but not action worth noting

- IJ's expansion south of the Solomons has reached Tulagi, where enemy tries to wear down the garrison. This is the second place I found a new 12 ship TF, supposedly some CLs, in the previous turn, 4 hex west (on map) of Tulagi. As TFs heading to Tulagi had DL on them, I assumed this may be a SCTF TF of some kind to go for the intercept of the attempt to move supply to Tulagi.

- Aleutians are totally quiet.

And that's about it. So not too much action going on in general, but sort of a slow war, currently characterized by the wearing down of a number of fortresses. At the same time, in terms of the VP account this means that a) IJ's tally does not yet include the full LCU losses; the PI and Tulagi will drive that number up. Also, if you move about on the map, you will notice that also a number of high value and potential high value targets that are often in IJ hands by this time of the war are not in this game.

In other words, I think there is still a considerable VP potential accessible for IJ in '42, which is something one may have to consider carefully in this game. In some ways, it is a strange twist - the move that effects a significant weakening of Allied OOB especially in '44 may bolster IJ's chances to obtain an Auto victory at an earlier point of time. But I hope I will find the time to discuss this in more detail at a later point of time in this thread.

Hartwig

[modrow]

I just noted that I failed to mention that the Soviets have not been activated [8D]

Hartwig

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: modrow
... And of course you are totally correct that at least in the early war, British carrier capable fighter planes are available in significant numbers.

There are actually not a lot of Brit CV capable airframes through the war and those that are there are generally crappy, so it makes sense to put US airgroups on Brit CVs. But having a point in time where airgroup uses CV capable planes is necessary for resizing. I just had lots of older Hurries in the pool and this was a way to use them.