OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class?

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Australia has also made investments in its military. I don't think they seriously entertain the idea of moving closer to China.

Not saying that they were and it could've just been a method of getting us to think twice. They've been one of our staunchest allies, at least since WWII, and I for one would hate to see that relationship eroded.

I smell political commentary coming [:-][:D]....GP

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: btd64

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Australia has also made investments in its military. I don't think they seriously entertain the idea of moving closer to China.

Not saying that they were and it could've just been a method of getting us to think twice. They've been one of our staunchest allies, at least since WWII, and I for one would hate to see that relationship eroded.

I smell political commentary coming [:-][:D]....GP

Nah, so far just a pleasant commentary. I think I've gone farther than I usually do in such threads. Pretty much think I'm done with this one, just in case.[:D]

[joey]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: joey

Don't forget China's submarine building program. It, too, rivals most of the world's nations. China is truly becoming a world military power.

Regional.

Regional is debatable. From a business and economic standpoint, look at how much trade goes through the Far East. Some estimates are that at least 20% of the world's trade goes through the Malacca Straits and the South China Sea.
So I would argue the "regional" is in reality a world power. Why else would they be spending so much to build islands in the South China Sea et. al.?

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

ORIGINAL: btd64

ORIGINAL: rustysi



Not saying that they were and it could've just been a method of getting us to think twice. They've been one of our staunchest allies, at least since WWII, and I for one would hate to see that relationship eroded.

I smell political commentary coming [:-][:D]....GP

Nah, so far just a pleasant commentary. I think I've gone farther than I usually do in such threads. Pretty much think I'm done with this one, just in case.[:D]

I was just about to say something political but stopped myself [;)]....GP

[Anachro]

It's nice we can have these discussions without delving into base politics. I, for one, make my comments as a contributor to a dialogue. [:)]

[ny59giants]

Peaceful expansion....NOT!!

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/98 ... tarisation

[MakeeLearn]

"For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.

Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

To see victory only when it is within the ken of the common herd is not the acme of excellence."

[RangerJoe]

The military, its use and/or the threat thereof, is a tool of diplomacy. It need not be the last tool to be used.

[MakeeLearn]

"Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer. If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

[RangerJoe]

As Stalin pointed out, useful idiots. In some places, they abound.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: joey

Don't forget China's submarine building program. It, too, rivals most of the world's nations. China is truly becoming a world military power.

Regional.

+1

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: joey

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: joey

Don't forget China's submarine building program. It, too, rivals most of the world's nations. China is truly becoming a world military power.

Regional.

Regional is debatable. From a business and economic standpoint, look at how much trade goes through the Far East. Some estimates are that at least 20% of the world's trade goes through the Malacca Straits and the South China Sea.
So I would argue the "regional" is in reality a world power. Why else would they be spending so much to build islands in the South China Sea et. al.?

Then what you actually meant by "world military power" was "major naval power." Sure, China could use a strong regional naval capability to threaten others because of their ability to control (to some degree) trade in the SCS - essentially extorting their desired outcomes. But that still just makes them a regional military power.

A world military power can project hard power throughout the world. Currently, the USN is head, shoulders, torso, and thighs above everybody else in (conventional) power projection capacity right now and for the foreseeable future (which is measured in at least a few decades).

If you include nuclear naval power (SSBNs), then the USN is still head and shoulders above everybody else just from quality of technology alone.

[sstevens06]

Very insightful comments. RangerJoe nailed it earlier with his post regarding demographics. This is an difficult problem for the PRC, as well as other East Asian nations.

As other contributors have stated it will be a long time until PRC achieves CV operational proficiency approaching the US Navy and Allies. And I think the PRC leadership knows this. My opinion is this is more for PR than anything else. Also in case of war the Type 002 CV will become the #001 target of each and every US Navy SSN Commander.

[MakeeLearn]

China has more people in the middle class than the entire United States population.

"March 26, 2018 may go down in history as one of the most significant days in world finance.
At 9am local time, the first trades in crude oil futures denominated in Yuan – China’s currency – appeared on the screens of the Shanghai International Energy Exchange.
Overall, 15.4 million barrels of crude oil changed hands through the new contract.
Oil trading powerhouses Glencore and Trafigura participated in the trade, lending their gravitas to the nascent market. The petro-yuan was born."




The Hunt for USS Petrodollar

[Anachro]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

The petro-yuan was born."
The Hunt for USS Petrodollar

The Petrodollar is alive and well. As for the petro yuan, at 1% of foreign exchange reserves, it is a very long ways away from being a reality. You can make a number of contracts exchanged through local currencies, but I bet you within those Yuan trades, someone, somewhere, is being paid in dollars and therefore the petrodollar is backing it up. [:)]

[RangerJoe]

Those petro-yuans might just be for oil going to the PRC . . .

[Chickenboy]

Remember when the Euro was making noise about supplanting the USD as an 'alternative' reserve currency? Circa 2010 or 2011, IIRC. Yeah. It's as funny now as it was then. Same sort of deal with the Renminbi. I don't think other nation states trust a reserve currency that is beholden to the fickle and autocratic opacity that is the PRC Communist Party.

As for the Venezuelan Petromoneda, or other virtual petro-denominated 'IOU', please let me know if you are planning on investing in these so I can take the other side of that bet.

[MakeeLearn]

"Russia, China, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, and Iran have agreed to use the petro-yuan for oil purchases."

And China is making other deals with Venezuela and Nigeria. The Saudi Arabia - Iran will be interesting.


But don't lose focus, Oil and the economy will be just some of of a 1000 cuts.


Observation... without a judgement of I'am right or I'am wrong... but for understanding and guidance. And what is seen may not be real or it may be more real than it looks.

I got in the habit of doing this while training under someone who was in the 173rd Airborne Brigade during the last of it's tour in Vietnam. He was involved in getting intel on important NVA/VC peoples and trying to ambush them as they moved from village to village. He made a ambush a work of art.

As he use to say "If your chute don't open, no problem... don't panic everything is fine... it's only that last few inches you have to worry about."

[RangerJoe]

I like to say that the fall would not bother me, it's that sudden stop at the end.

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I like to say that the fall would not bother me, it's that sudden stop at the end.

"If your chute don't open, no problem... don't panic everything is fine... it's only that last few inches you have to worry about."

Applies to more than just parachutes[;)]