1939 Naval Mod
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
Hairog, Hope you can find them. The one I am particularly interested in is "Triumph & Tragedy"
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
Thank you very much for the files.
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
You're welcome.
Did you get them installed? If so please do an AAR so I can see if everything is working right.
Did you get them installed? If so please do an AAR so I can see if everything is working right.
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
I have been playing the 1939 WiE naval mod 3.3. Is that the latest version? I ask because I had recently played WaW naval mod and found differences. As well as I can remember in WaW all tf's got two strikes and hunter killers were more powerful. I have really enjoyed both and actually did a very minor edit to the WiE one to permit two strikes by hunter killer tf's. I am in mid 1944 in WiE playing Allies vs. Axis AI. The AI is good. One interesting feature is that Germany keeps spawning screening tf's to attack two British wolfpacks harrassing the Norway convoy route.
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
Hairog, I have not done an AAR but I did play the "Allied Turns the Tide with Naval Mod" scenario through to its final conclusion. With the time limit off I finally won in Dec 46. The naval mod performed well and presented a much greater and better challenge than the same scenario in vanilla mode. I have a few pictures but cannot work out how to load them in the post. There was one error where a US Fast Carrier (possibily the same one each time) which on attempting a move dropped from 21 to 0 Action points in 1 hex. This happened 3 or 4 times over the whole scenario so it is a rare phenomena.
Just one observation. The game encourages a player to keep sea units in Ports where they can be upgraded and benefit from the extra protection but are still able to avoid attacks. In real life they would be sitting ducks!
Anyway Viva La Naval Mod!
![Image]()
Just one observation. The game encourages a player to keep sea units in Ports where they can be upgraded and benefit from the extra protection but are still able to avoid attacks. In real life they would be sitting ducks!
Anyway Viva La Naval Mod!
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
ORIGINAL: TangSooDo
I have been playing the 1939 WiE naval mod 3.3. Is that the latest version?
Yes 3.3 is the latest. I'm glad you are enjoying the mods. I had fun making them.
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
ORIGINAL: edward77
Hairog, I have not done an AAR but I did play the "Allied Turns the Tide with Naval Mod" scenario through to its final conclusion. With the time limit off I finally won in Dec 46.
Good job edward77! Glad to hear you enjoyed playing and took it to the end. Love to see the pics and read the AAR.
If you want to attach pics, don't choose the "Fast Reply" You can't attach files if you use that.
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
Are submarines now prohibited from attacking other submarines in the naval mod? No matter if I set my subs to hunt or silent I cannot attack enemy submarines. It doesn't seem to matter whether they're in hunt or silent either, because I've tried attacking subs that have just dove from other attacks, and I've tried attacking those that were in hunt mode and interdicting my supply lines, and in neither case was I allowed to attack with my own subs.
Was this intentional? If so, I don't get the point. Some of the best WWII movies are those in which two submarines are locked in a naval struggle with one another, in an underwater game of cat and mouse if you will. The other odd thing is, the properties still show attack and defense values for subs attacking/defending against other subs? Hope to hear some feedback on this. Thanks.
P.S. - Another note, in the vanilla version of the game, a silent sub cannot stop a surface vessel from cruising over it. I feel like silent subs should be the exception when it comes to ZOC, and they should not project any at all. As it stands now though, enemy subs whether silent or not, will still exhibit ZOC on my subs as they try to pass by, but I cannot attack them with my subs. This is problematic, in the fact that the enemy can use their subs as invincible ZOC modifiers against me trying to penetrate their lines to go after surface vessels. Just doesn't seem right from a gameplay mechanics standpoint.
Was this intentional? If so, I don't get the point. Some of the best WWII movies are those in which two submarines are locked in a naval struggle with one another, in an underwater game of cat and mouse if you will. The other odd thing is, the properties still show attack and defense values for subs attacking/defending against other subs? Hope to hear some feedback on this. Thanks.
P.S. - Another note, in the vanilla version of the game, a silent sub cannot stop a surface vessel from cruising over it. I feel like silent subs should be the exception when it comes to ZOC, and they should not project any at all. As it stands now though, enemy subs whether silent or not, will still exhibit ZOC on my subs as they try to pass by, but I cannot attack them with my subs. This is problematic, in the fact that the enemy can use their subs as invincible ZOC modifiers against me trying to penetrate their lines to go after surface vessels. Just doesn't seem right from a gameplay mechanics standpoint.
-
BillRunacre
- Posts: 6606
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:57 pm
- Contact:
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
Subs attacking other subs isn't possible, as otherwise people would use them as their main anti-sub weapon because even if they were given a low attack value, they would themselves be fairly safe from attack in doing so.
While you are right that subs did attack and sink each other on occasions, at a macro scale they were never the main go-to weapon when it came to dealing with enemy submarines. That role belonging mainly to destroyers and either long-range aircraft or Carrier borne air.
While you are right that subs did attack and sink each other on occasions, at a macro scale they were never the main go-to weapon when it came to dealing with enemy submarines. That role belonging mainly to destroyers and either long-range aircraft or Carrier borne air.
Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FurySoftware
We're also on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/FurySoftware/
We're also on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/FurySoftware/
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
Thank you for the prompt reply, Bill. I can understand your reasoning completely, and, I actually went to look it up to see how many times a sub "dogfighted" with another sub in WWII and actually sank it, because I was curious myself. It was a mind blowing 1 time! LOL! I had no idea. So, it's true when they say you learn something new everyday. It's also true that Hollywood takes a lot of liberties with reality.
And, to touch on my post script, I also read about how convoys would alter their routes constantly just by having a "potential threat" from enemy submarines, even if there were none actually there. This would give justification for ZOC properties when following this logic, even if the sub is running silent. I was just worried that it was something I was doing wrong, or not completely understanding, so either way I thank you again for clarifying this.
I'd also just like to end by saying thank you one more time for making one hell of a game. In my 30 years of gaming I've played a lot of strategy games, but I can say with confidence that Strategic Command is now the best I've touched yet! Keep up the good work sir!
And, to touch on my post script, I also read about how convoys would alter their routes constantly just by having a "potential threat" from enemy submarines, even if there were none actually there. This would give justification for ZOC properties when following this logic, even if the sub is running silent. I was just worried that it was something I was doing wrong, or not completely understanding, so either way I thank you again for clarifying this.
I'd also just like to end by saying thank you one more time for making one hell of a game. In my 30 years of gaming I've played a lot of strategy games, but I can say with confidence that Strategic Command is now the best I've touched yet! Keep up the good work sir!
-
BillRunacre
- Posts: 6606
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:57 pm
- Contact:
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
Thanks JTMarsh, that is great to hear! [:)]
As to Hollywood, it can tell a good story at times and sometimes we just have to forgive them for their inaccuracies in return. Though maybe not always... Mel Gibson's Patriot springs to mind as an exception!
As to Hollywood, it can tell a good story at times and sometimes we just have to forgive them for their inaccuracies in return. Though maybe not always... Mel Gibson's Patriot springs to mind as an exception!
Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FurySoftware
We're also on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/FurySoftware/
We're also on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/FurySoftware/
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
Wow! I just sent in the entire Italian navy to engage one solitary UK BB, and the results were unbelievable to say the least. It managed to evade 3 Italian BB's attacks completely (that's six strikes altogether, with a 5-5 damage odds chance each battle), while firing back and killing 2 of the 3 attacking BB's, and wounding the third. (I evaded once, so bad RNG rolls to say the least.) So, I have to stop right here for a second and throw out a huge red flag. Why are my BB's only allowed 2 strikes, but yet he was allowed infinite defensive strikes back??? Does this thing ever have to stop to reload her guns?!?!
Anyways, lets continue. At this point I said the heck with it, and figured the entire Italian navy was wasted now anyways, so I decided to throw the whole kitchen sink at this one ship just to see if I could sink her. 2 subs, a recon, 2 raiders, and a screening task force later, and she still didn't die! (Only took 2 damage from a CA, and 1 from a sub.) In fact, she managed to retreat twice, despite being nearly completely surrounded (so much for zone of control), and found safe haven inside an island port just south of Greece, while evading the other shots too, and sinking 1 of the CA's! I will also add, that all of my ships were at full strength, with both navies sporting the naval weapons level 1 upgrade, so we were on par almost exactly (however my morale was higher).
In conclusion, I like the concepts put forward by this mod, but it just doesn't work out very well at all. In general, I feel defending ships should have their defensive strikes limited to only 2, same as the attackers # of attacks, to give the attacker some level of tactical advantage if he wants to attack with multiple ships against one. Especially since the defender already gets the advantages of fog of war and surprise strikes. Also, the evasion mechanic should only apply to subs that dive, and for surface vessels it should be changed to a % possible damage reduction instead of evasion and retreat. This would also keep ships from being able to just retreat into port constantly, which is bogus to begin with, because a fleet at anchor should be a sitting duck!
I like realism in a game just as much as the next guy, but when it breaks the mechanics of said game, like in the example above, you have to let game balance be the ultimate winner in the end. Hope my recommendations can spur some new ideas to maybe tweak the mod in the future, if not, then I'll just go back to playing the vanilla version.
(P.S.- And holy cow! The German submarines are just UK punching bags now! LOL! Cheers!)
Anyways, lets continue. At this point I said the heck with it, and figured the entire Italian navy was wasted now anyways, so I decided to throw the whole kitchen sink at this one ship just to see if I could sink her. 2 subs, a recon, 2 raiders, and a screening task force later, and she still didn't die! (Only took 2 damage from a CA, and 1 from a sub.) In fact, she managed to retreat twice, despite being nearly completely surrounded (so much for zone of control), and found safe haven inside an island port just south of Greece, while evading the other shots too, and sinking 1 of the CA's! I will also add, that all of my ships were at full strength, with both navies sporting the naval weapons level 1 upgrade, so we were on par almost exactly (however my morale was higher).
In conclusion, I like the concepts put forward by this mod, but it just doesn't work out very well at all. In general, I feel defending ships should have their defensive strikes limited to only 2, same as the attackers # of attacks, to give the attacker some level of tactical advantage if he wants to attack with multiple ships against one. Especially since the defender already gets the advantages of fog of war and surprise strikes. Also, the evasion mechanic should only apply to subs that dive, and for surface vessels it should be changed to a % possible damage reduction instead of evasion and retreat. This would also keep ships from being able to just retreat into port constantly, which is bogus to begin with, because a fleet at anchor should be a sitting duck!
I like realism in a game just as much as the next guy, but when it breaks the mechanics of said game, like in the example above, you have to let game balance be the ultimate winner in the end. Hope my recommendations can spur some new ideas to maybe tweak the mod in the future, if not, then I'll just go back to playing the vanilla version.
(P.S.- And holy cow! The German submarines are just UK punching bags now! LOL! Cheers!)
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
Each attack does knock the defending ship down one point of supply, and I've always found that they are less effective (both ways) when their supply hits 5 or below. But yeah the evasion %'s here simply give the Dice Gods too much sway.
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
Wow! Has anyone else have a similar experience? In all my testing this never occurred to me. I need some verification from at least one other to see if this was just a one off or a systemic problem.
I did build in some pretty hefty evasion figures because this is what really happened. How many ships and planes did it take to track down the Bismark or the Graff Spee? It was 4 AVs! 3 BBs and 16 CAs for the Graff Spee and 2 CVa, 6 BBs, 13 CAs and 21 DDs for the Bismark.It was very hard to track down a ship in the open ocean...very hard. Many of what you would call attacks were attempts to find the ship in question. In other words most of your attacks were actually attempts to find said ship. I'm very surprised at the planes not being able to find and attack effectively. I'll have to look at this one.
There should not have been so much damage to the attackers however, and I will check it out. Do remember the HMS Hood or the cruisers Exeter, Ajax, and Achilles however.
As far as the surface attacks, the evasions are statisticaly accurate, and that was my goal. I know the vanilla version is much funner than my version but I would argue that the Naval Mods mimic reality much more closely.
In addition the BB unit probably has 2 BBs a few CAs and a dozen DDs and not one BB.
As to being surrounded, this is a game mechanics problem because of the one unit per hex, no ship was ever surrounded in the open ocean that I know of. Many of them did just what your RN BB did. They survived took some damage and found a port and were blockaded and eventually scuttled.
So as frustrating as your experience was, it did reflect reality. So if you want fun and not accuracy then the vanilla is the way to go.
I did build in some pretty hefty evasion figures because this is what really happened. How many ships and planes did it take to track down the Bismark or the Graff Spee? It was 4 AVs! 3 BBs and 16 CAs for the Graff Spee and 2 CVa, 6 BBs, 13 CAs and 21 DDs for the Bismark.It was very hard to track down a ship in the open ocean...very hard. Many of what you would call attacks were attempts to find the ship in question. In other words most of your attacks were actually attempts to find said ship. I'm very surprised at the planes not being able to find and attack effectively. I'll have to look at this one.
There should not have been so much damage to the attackers however, and I will check it out. Do remember the HMS Hood or the cruisers Exeter, Ajax, and Achilles however.
As far as the surface attacks, the evasions are statisticaly accurate, and that was my goal. I know the vanilla version is much funner than my version but I would argue that the Naval Mods mimic reality much more closely.
In addition the BB unit probably has 2 BBs a few CAs and a dozen DDs and not one BB.
As to being surrounded, this is a game mechanics problem because of the one unit per hex, no ship was ever surrounded in the open ocean that I know of. Many of them did just what your RN BB did. They survived took some damage and found a port and were blockaded and eventually scuttled.
So as frustrating as your experience was, it did reflect reality. So if you want fun and not accuracy then the vanilla is the way to go.
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
Hairog, I really like your ideas and am experimenting and tweaking them for my home made mod. [:D]
Question: carrier-based attacks are its aircraft complement, of course, but in game terms, it is considered a “naval” attack, though with the “carrier” attack stats, right?
Ok so the “naval” attack/defence evasion percentages (in general but particularly referring to carriers themselves here) I presume likewise apply to carrier aircraft attacks?
In other words, the 60% or 70% carrier naval evasion defence rating applies not only to surface and submarine attacks against carriers, but also towards enemy carrier aircraft attacks? Am I understanding this correctly? Thanks! [&o]
Question: carrier-based attacks are its aircraft complement, of course, but in game terms, it is considered a “naval” attack, though with the “carrier” attack stats, right?
Ok so the “naval” attack/defence evasion percentages (in general but particularly referring to carriers themselves here) I presume likewise apply to carrier aircraft attacks?
In other words, the 60% or 70% carrier naval evasion defence rating applies not only to surface and submarine attacks against carriers, but also towards enemy carrier aircraft attacks? Am I understanding this correctly? Thanks! [&o]
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
I always assumed so, but if I had my way, all naval unit classes by country, would have custom mod worthy evasion ratings against air attack, surface attack, and sub attack. If Bill or Hubert are slumming and have dropped down from their mighty heights, maybe they could give us both a better answer and maybe a better solution.
-
BillRunacre
- Posts: 6606
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:57 pm
- Contact:
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
The evasion settings won't prevent damage from air attacks, only from surface (or land) attacks.
Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FurySoftware
We're also on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/FurySoftware/
We're also on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/FurySoftware/
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
That's not what I thought,and that fits in with the mod very well, very well. That is very nice to know and one more thing to not think about.
Thanks Bill.
Thanks Bill.
RE: 1939 Naval Mod
Hi,
I just wanted to ask, which game version of Strategic Command WWII your 1939 Naval Mod is supporting? Is it the version 1.05 as for the Community Pack or do you have an updated version to download for the newest version of the game (version 1.13.00 I guess)? I'm playing the game with steam, if that helps.
Looking forward to try out your mod
I just wanted to ask, which game version of Strategic Command WWII your 1939 Naval Mod is supporting? Is it the version 1.05 as for the Community Pack or do you have an updated version to download for the newest version of the game (version 1.13.00 I guess)? I'm playing the game with steam, if that helps.
Looking forward to try out your mod