Payer l'addition. AllenK vs BillBrown

[AllenK]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So the Japanese task force (yellow circle) - is this where Haruna and Kongo are (and presumably an invasion fleet)?

There appears to be shipping in the Mersing hex (red circle) - what is here? Is this just the sub and the minelayer? Is Force Z at Kuantan?

Just the sub and mine-layer at Mersing. Force Z was showing as undetected at Singkep. That should change!

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: AllenK

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So the Japanese task force (yellow circle) - is this where Haruna and Kongo are (and presumably an invasion fleet)?

There appears to be shipping in the Mersing hex (red circle) - what is here? Is this just the sub and the minelayer? Is Force Z at Kuantan?

Just the sub and mine-layer at Mersing. Force Z was showing as undetected at Singkep. That should change!

I have never gotten good results out of Force Z against Japanese BBs or CAs in the first few days of the game. Japanese crew experience and leaders just blow away Allied advantages in newer ship design and radar. And then there are those swarms of working, very powerful torps ...
But I love big ship naval battles so Kudos to you sir for taking the plunge! Since this is kinda "Show Business" ... Break a Leg!

[AllenK]

SNAFUCOM-PAC
10/12/41

A well placed minefield exacts a heavy toll.

TF 588 encounters mine field at 49,90

Allied Ships
HDML 1063, Mine hits 1, heavy damage

TF 589 encounters mine field at 49,90

Allied Ships
ML No. 310, Mine hits 1, heavy damage
xAKL Bust, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAKL Marudu, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

1 mine cleared

TF 646 encounters mine field at 49,90

Allied Ships
TK Strix, Mine hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

TF 638 encounters mine field at 49,90

Allied Ships
TK Augustina, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DD Evertsen, Mine hits 1, on fire

1 mine cleared

TF 489 encounters mine field at 49,90

Allied Ships
xAP Glenapp, Mine hits 1

With mines still showing in the hex and guessing they are sub-layed, that's pretty much everyone a coconut. Not a bad return on investment!

I don't think the staff got the orders settings quite right for Force Z. They engaged once and then legged it. Possibly something to do with Retirement Allowed being set. As it happened, it didn't work out too badly.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Mersing at 51,82, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed
E8N2 Dave: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CA Chokai, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Hatsuharu, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsushima
DD Wakaba, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Sagiri

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales
BC Repulse, Shell hits 2
CL Dragon
CL Durban, Shell hits 2
DD Stronghold, Shell hits 1
DD Electra
DD Express
DD Jupiter, Shell hits 2

The Jap BB's had stood off in the hex to the east but Force Z's withdrawal meant their transports went in unopposed.

[AllenK]

The mine-layer didn't escape. These came from the Zuiho, confirmed in the area as Allied aircraft attacked but to no effect.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 50,84

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 11
B5N1 Kate x 9

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 2

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CM Kung Wo, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B5N1 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

In the Philippines, Jap carrier aircraft get another good hit.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Tawi Tawi at 72,89

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 8 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 12
B5N1 Kate x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Boise, Torpedo hits 1
DD Stewart

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B5N1 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

Allied mines and subs are mostly ineffectual.The only highlight is:

Sub attack near Laoag at 80,72

Japanese Ships
xAK Shinko Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied air attacks are similarly mostly ineffective apart from one gem.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 52,82

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 5

Allied aircraft
Vildebeest III x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Vildebeest III: 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Torpedo hits 1
BB Kongo

Landings at Mersing Appari and Vigan. The Vigan landings suffer the most casualties and the invaders do hit mines (unknown effect).

Jap subs and SCS's inflict other losses around the Philippines.

Air losses come out in favour of the Japanese

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: AllenK

The mine-layer didn't escape. These came from the Zuiho, confirmed in the area as Allied aircraft attacked but to no effect.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 50,84

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 11
B5N1 Kate x 9

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 2

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CM Kung Wo, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B5N1 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

In the Philippines, Jap carrier aircraft get another good hit.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Tawi Tawi at 72,89

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 8 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 12
B5N1 Kate x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Boise, Torpedo hits 1
DD Stewart

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B5N1 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

Allied mines and subs are mostly ineffectual.The only highlight is:

Sub attack near Laoag at 80,72

Japanese Ships
xAK Shinko Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied air attacks are similarly mostly ineffective apart from one gem.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 52,82

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 5

Allied aircraft
Vildebeest III x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Vildebeest III: 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Torpedo hits 1
BB Kongo

Landings at Mersing Appari and Vigan. The Vigan landings suffer the most casualties and the invaders do hit mines (unknown effect).

Jap subs and SCS's inflict other losses around the Philippines.

Air losses come out in favour of the Japanese

[AllenK]

SNAFUCOM-PAC
11/12/41

Apart from the general trying to get stuff either organised or to safety, only one significant task attempted. The CA Houston TF, less the damaged Boise (detached to make for Tarakan), was sent to see if it could intercept the CVL TF lingering south of the Philippines. I considered whether or not to send Force Z back for a second go but it had legged it that far, it wouldn't have arrived until daylight. That seemed to be chancing its luck just that bit too much so it would be up to the Dutch subs and RAF in Malaya.

I've attached the full combat report for those interested. The "highlights" were as follows.

In a series of 9 engagements the Houston TF tangled with 3 different Jap cruiser TF's. Allied gunnery was as woeful as BBFanboy suggested, with only 12 hits scored for the loss of CL Marblehead and 4 DD's. A suspect a couple of collisions between Jap DD's caused more damage. Only the Houson and 1 DD survived and are on their way to Balikpapan. The Boise got caught up in this and fought a lone battle against a CL and 7 DD's. She survived the encounter. Her 3 hits scored in return for 6 minor belt armour hits were a more creditable effort than the Houston group. The 3 RN DD's from Hong Kong also got entangled with these Jap TF's, resulting in one sunk and one with 97% fires (which I scuttled) for a few hits in return.

More depressing news with the Saratoga taking two torps from a Jap sub and is quite heavily damaged.

However, the Dutch responded with three into the CVE Hosho at Mersing. She was still afloat come daylight and it took two further bomb hits from the Vildebeests to sink her. I'm only assuming she is sunk. Nothing confirmed but a large number of A5M4's are showing as ground losses for the day. The Vildebeests and Swordfish put in a creditable performance, scoring other useful hits.

CL Kashii, Torpedo hits 1
AK Sasako Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Kashii, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CL Sendai, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Sagiri, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 1

3 xAP plus a couple of other merchants and a minelayer are lost in other actions.

Mersing, Appari, Vigan, Tarawa and Manus fall to the Japanese. A blocking force near Taiyuan is pushed back with 3527 casualties to a shock attack. Finally, an assumption comes back to bite me in a big way.

I'd got the impression having friendly units already in the hex prevented the triggering of a shock attack when a unit crosses a river. It turns out this is only partly correct. The force ratio has to be above a certain threshold. At Ichang a disaster unfolds when a single corps crosses the river and all the other units join in. The Chinese lose 7000.

[AllenK]

It's going to be a race to see if the Indian 11th Div make it to Singers before the rail is cut. This will be a turn of knuckling down, rather than any grand gestures.

[warspite1]

So a few questions please:

- What do the CW have in the hexes highlighted?

- How serious is the Japanese landing at Mersing in terms of supply for those units north of that port? - I see there appears to be some sort of (road?) heading north to Kuala Lumpur and beyond so presumably not fatal - yet?

- Do the CW have any way of stopping the Japanese cutting that line before the Japanese can get there?

- What damage can Allied naval forces still be expected to achieve or should the Malay Peninsular be abandoned as far as the RN and Dutch naval units are concerned? For example can they still try and cause supply problems for the units at Mersing?

- do you know what strength the Japanese are likely to have landed in at Mersing?

[AllenK]

Starting at the top, working down from left to right.

Taiping has a battalion acting as a speed bump on the west railway. The next circle is the units evicted from Kota Bharu; 8th Indian Brigade, FMSV Brigade and a base force. 8th Brigade is heading for Temoluh to join rest of Indian 9th Div. The others will stay in the hex as another speed bump. The hex on the west coast has 2 brigades and artillery from 11th Indian Div, they are trying to make Singapore. The other unit is a battalion heading for Kuala Lumpur. Next is Temoluh with a brigade and 2 artillery regts. from 9th Indian Div. Kuantan has the remaining brigade from 9th Indian, an AA regt and base force. The base force is staying in the hex while aircraft are repaired but will probably then join the others heading for Temoluh. Kuala Lumpur has a couple of base forces plus Indian III Corps HQ. The hex SW has the remaining brigade and AT regt from 11th Indian Div, trying to make Singapore.

Significant Jap forces at Mersing are 18th Div and 1st Tank Regt. The tanks could move to the hex west pretty quickly. If/when they do, all points north are isolated. A battalion was being sent from Johore Bahru but sill has 6 km before reaching the hex.

The subs are probably the best chance of disrupting supply shipping at Mersing. Running surface ships in at night might be a possibility but we know what is likely to happen if they are still there come daylight.

[AllenK]

SNAFUCOM-PAC
12/12/41

Two engagements with CA Nachi and 2 DD's puts an end to Boise. She scores 4 hits in return. Around 8 merchants and a tanker are sunk by cruiser TF's and CV air as the carnage around the Philippines continues.

Landings at Miri, Hollandia, Aitape, Wewak and Legaspi. Hong Kong survives another attack. The Japs capture Kweiteh and Manus. Chinese 89th Corps is nearly finished off by a shock attack near Pengpu.

The only notable event for the Allies was SS's S-40 and Perch putting down an xAK off the north Philippines. 11th Indian Div gets to Singers and Johore Bahru just before the rail is cut by Jap armour.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: AllenK

SNAFUCOM-PAC
12/12/41

Finally you have a correct date!

[Kofiman]

I'd got the impression having friendly units already in the hex prevented the triggering of a shock attack when a unit crosses a river. It turns out this is only partly correct.

You also have to own the hexside in question, IIRC. ie, someone has to have already crossed that river from that hex.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Kofiman

I'd got the impression having friendly units already in the hex prevented the triggering of a shock attack when a unit crosses a river. It turns out this is only partly correct.

You also have to own the hexside in question, IIRC. ie, someone has to have already crossed that river from that hex.

And the AV of the friendly troops already in the hex must be at least 30% (IIRC) of the AV of the crossing units.

[AllenK]

Thanks for the advice Kofiman and BBfanboy. I guess I'm like the Allied commanders, woefully underskilled and ill-prepared for what they had to counter and having to learn on the job. At least my mistakes only cost some digital troops and a bit of loss of face! More of that to follow.

SNAFUCOM-PAC
13/12/1941 (after a brief respite for Zorch, proper date formatting is resumed)

B-17's ordered to bomb the landings at Legaspi decide to go for Babeldaob. They get get some new air vents in the bombers for little in return. Blenhiems that were supposed to attacking the tanks west of Mersing don't fly at all (the staff left the target selection to the commander's discretion). Japanese sweeps at Manilla put down 5 P-40's for no loss. At Rangoon a Buffalo is traded for a Zero.

MTB's and PT boats tangle with cruisers off Iba, getting a couple of extra portholes for their trouble. More merchant losses but our subs manage an xAK.

Japanese attack at Ichang causes 1500 casualties to both sides. Near Chengchow, a shock attack causes around 700 apiece. At Sinyang, the results go better for the Allies with 1500 Jap casualties to only 70 Chinese. The Japanese capture Guam, Miri, Victoria Point, Hollandia, Wewak, Legaspi, Tuegugarao, Aitape and Ankang.

The most depressing news of the day was pump failure on Saratoga, which promptly sank. I know there is much randomness around damage and critical hits but it's a bit galling to see a big fleet CV, with a hull based on a battle cruiser put down by 2 torps whereas it took 3 torps and 2 500 lb bombs to deal with a flimsy CVE. However, that's dodging the question of how I got into this mess in the first place. What I need to learn is not to use the default routing out of ports. In hindsight, an obvious place to put subs as a starter for ten (or in this case the jackpot [:(]).

The Jap navy has departed from Mersing to points unknown.

Not much to attempt this turn. See if the Blenheims and B-17's will go for the right targets.

[Bif1961]

I cam sympathize as I lost the Enterprise to a sub in the Marshalls the first week of the war because I wanted to attack his shipping there and a sub put 3 torps in her and she sank over night, with no chance to save her or her air groups. In a previous game I had the Big E again suck two torpedoes from a carrier battle in DEI in early 1942. She was making for Darwin at crusie speed with a few DDs as escort. She seemed to be doing well limping how repairing damage and pumping out as she was one day out of Darwin i got messages over night of pump failures and she went down, when her previous system and flood were both around the lower 30s. I was shocked she could fall to pieces so quickly.

[AllenK]

SNAFUCOM-PAC
14/12/41

Morning Air attack on TF, near Howland Island at 146,125

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 44
B5N2 Kate x 74

Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 13
F4F-3A Wildcat x 23
F4F-3 Wildcat x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 3 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 1 destroyed
F4F-3A Wildcat: 4 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 6, and is sunk
DD Balch
CA Chester
CA Northampton, Torpedo hits 1
CA Salt Lake City

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Howland Island at 146,125

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 33
B5N2 Kate x 78

Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 16
F4F-3 Wildcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 6 destroyed, 1 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA Astoria, Torpedo hits 1
CA Chicago, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
CA Portland
DD Drayton

Enough said

[USSAmerica]

Ouch! [:(]

[Zorch]

Sudden Carrier Loss Syndrome (SCLS) is the leading cause of AE game abandonment. It can strike at any time. A support group is available.

This is grounds for a restart, if you ask me.

[Bearcat2]

Ouch! What damage did your counterattack dish out?

1942 is not going to be a good year for the allies.

[Bif1961]

The bane of the Allied player getting froggy with the carriers usually leads to sudden sadness syndrome (SSS). Does this trigger a few new Essex class reinforcements?