Research - Formulas and Changes Explained

[Hubert Cater]

There was also one small bug (related to sharing) that I've corrected that will be a part of the next update. Perhaps this applies in your case here?

[Taxman66]

I hope so. Russia still stuck on Infantry Weapons 1 in July 1942 is not a pretty picture.

[Taxman66]

And for the record this was observed in a bbase 1939 Storm game without mods.

[PvtBenjamin]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Hubert, I just recently observed a 2% (single chit {base 5, due to low tech level}) gain. This was with a mobilized Russia in July 1942 (and should have a +1 enemy catch up bonus to boot) in a current latest version pbem game.

This doesn't jive with your formula.

Hmm 2 1/2 rounded down [8|]

[Hubert Cater]

Too funny, and no even the current version doesn't round down.

[Taxman66]

Not funny to me.
First Russian investment was Inf Wep. (Though I didn't sell any starting chits)
Immediately reinvested when it completed (early May 1941 iirc). No breakthroughs.
Russian (and US) mobilization stunted by Germany not taking Denmark, Norway or Luxembourg.

[The Land]

On the whole I'm a fan of these changes, though I do have a reservation about Spying and Intelligence.

Mainly because the Spying and Intelligence bonus is a way to block the 'catch up' mechanic that is otherwise built into the game balance. Germany starts ahead on technology, and the Allies have to invest in it to catch up - fair enough .... but why allow Germany to also invest in Spying and Technology to suppress the speed at which the Allies are able to catch up?

[EarlyDoors]

I've read this thread with interest and have many questions but lets begin with understanding how the USSR can achieve this breakthrouh in Industrial Technology of 21% in November 1939

[EarlyDoors]

Research Progression % for a breakthrough determination, is multiplied by the number of chits applied. For example the UK has Infantry Weapons Level-0 with 1 chit invested, therefore the same 5% * 1 = 5% as above.

Thus, if a random number between 1-100 is determined to be less than 5%, a breakthrough is considered to have occurred. A breakthrough % is anywhere between [10,20] and can only occur after regular advancements are > 45%.

How is a breakthrough possible when the Industrial Technology had not advanced above 45% ??

[PvtBenjamin]

Breakthrough changed in the last update

Research Breakthroughs can now happen at any time, 45% threshold no longer applies, and the breakthrough range is increased from 15-25% from 10-20%

[EarlyDoors]

thx

[Cpuncher]

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

We are also considering displaying the advancement formula for each Major and for each research category where a research chit is applied.

It would be a mouse tool tip that displays when hovering over the chit investment area (highlighted in red) and would display something like the following:

[4,11] >> [3,8] +1 +1 +0

This would indicate the current advancement calculated [4,11], with the base value prior to catch up and intelligence bonuses applied, i.e. the [3,8]. The first + would be for friendly catch up, the second + for enemy catch up, and the third + for Spying and Intelligence bonus if applicable.

The benefit of this is it would be clear what the expected advancement results should be (also to confirm proper calculations), however the drawback is that it will reveal some extra information under FoW even though it is not clear which nation has the higher values for research level and for Spying and Intelligence.

But, overall both sides tended to know who had the better materiel, so it's not totally unrealistic and could outweigh the cons of knowing a bit more under FoW if everyone thought this would be useful?

Hubert,

Has this tool tip been implemented for WAW? I don't have WIE, but it appears that neither WWI or WAW has it. This would be a great feature if it can be done, thanks!

[Hubert Cater]

It should be a part of all games, although only when FoW is disabled.

[Chernobyl]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Hubert,

Preuming no bonus and the base range of 3 - 8, is the mean really 5.5 (with equal chances of each value appearing? Or is the formula/random number generation/rounding weighted to 5?

If weighted to 5, how does this work when bonuses increase the high end of the range more than they increase the low end of the range?

Glad you re visited this


If its equal weighted its 5 1/2.

If the mean is 5 its a log normal distribution with actually 3,4 occurring more than 6,7,8.

Its also possible 3,4,5,6,7 have the same probability and 8 an extremely small probability. This would be if there were fractions used in the RNG (random number generator) and the range is actually {2 1/2 to 7 1/2} then rounded. For example RNG returns 2.5000 - 3.4999 rounds to 3 but only 7.5000 - 7.5000 returns 8. Thousands of iterations would return a mean very close to 5.

Love to get in the weeds!

Sorry to dig up a really old thread, but I'm unable to find confirmation of this anywhere else. Is a "5%" (no bonus) research rate really expected to progress at an actual rate of 5.5% per turn, or is the distribution of numbers [3-8] somehow skewed as PvtBenjamin suggests? Trying to calculate the number of turns I need to research in advance to get a certain tech by a certain date, with a >99% probability, and that extra 0.5% makes a big difference.

[OxfordGuy3]

In the current patch, is it ever worth the USSR investing in Intelligence (either pre-or post-Barbarossa), assuming Britain doesn't sell it's Intelligence chit and the USA invests heavily in Intelligence? I normally don't bother at all, as am not sure that it gives much benefit for USSR, but maybe I've misunderstood on things work?

[Taxman66]

You are correct. In nearly all cases the UK and US will always be ahead of Russia for the defensive effect, and GE will always be ahead so Russia will not gain an offensive bonus.

The only benefit would be additional unit spotting. A small benefit when money is badly needed for other Tech and units.
Late game (if it matters) maybe.