Matrix : Please "tweak" the victory conditions.

[Mr.Frag]

Great point AA, perhaps you bring new light to the discussion. It is not about the USA leaving the war, it is about the theater commander (YOU!) being re-assigned to supply desk for Alaska

Obviously the USA would never have pulled out no matter what, but you can bet your last dollar that certain key events would have resulted in a few 4 stars being sent packing. Maybe that should be a mesure of the victory conditions and also the Special Virctory conditions. Lots of other games demote you if you blow it bad enough, why not UV?

[Micah Goodman]

Originally posted by Yamamoto
Well, there's Somalia for one. We lost two helicopters and some ground troops and we got the hell out of there.

Yamamoto

But that reinforces my point; we did not take huge combat losses. The real problem was one of conviction, did the American people want to feed and rebuild Somalia? I would say that answer was no. The situation in Somalia did not threaten our national interests so there was little political will to act aggressively or decisively. I believe that the average American does understand that war means killing and killing means death, the only difference today as opposed to fifty years ago is one of political polarization. America is divided so sharply between conservative and liberal viewpoints today that political hatred for the other side drives protest or support more than any other factor.

Originally posted by Oleg Mastruko
I don't know... suddenly it sounds too easy for the Japanese.

In most wargames I played I managed to do better than historical counterpart. Just knowing what mistakes historic side made, was GREAT advantage.

I did complain many times how Japanese chances of victory in UV are too slim, but now it sounds too easy. Playing better than historic Japs seems like a piece of cake... First, we'll avoid Midway, then we'll build up Lunga real FAST, then we'll avoid meat-grinding of Guadalcanal, then we'll train more pilots and take care not to waste best pilots in senseless attacks etc. - piece of cake.

And BTW how do you measure success against history in unhistoric scenarios (17 and especially 19)? Who can tell what would IJN do with Midway carriers in Solomons.

O.

You know those are some very valid points. But I was thinking along the lines of an overall combat situation at the end of the game. So What if the Japanese still hold Lunga at the end of the game if they pour everything they have to build some super base if they leave Ruabal lightly defended and the Allies take it instead? Or instead of base control make it hex control. The possibilities are numerous and some could be easily implemented.

Or you could do a simple revamping of the points system. Award points based on how long certain bases are occupied by certain sides, maybe add points for enemy ship, plane, and troop losses in that order. The problem with simulating or not simulating Midway is that that battle falls outside the scope of UV. So, repeating or not repeating that battle is a great option to include or not include in a UV scenario thus added more the games replay ability. In a war game as the Japanese you might not want to avoid Midway. What if you could pull off a victory where the Japanese historically failed? But the sudden death option was an attempt at game balance that failed in my opinion.

[estaban]

Some thoughts:

1) Sudden death victory condition = bad Get rid of the "December Surprise" Or make the game end if you pull off the December surprise, but make the victory dependent just the ratio of dead ships/planes/soldiers on each side, and leave bases out of the equation. So a successful Christmas attack merely causes a victory check, but if you lose a ton of ships and planes and men pulling it off, you can still lose the game if you are Japanese.

2) Give points per turn for holding bases. Instead of having Rabaul = 2700 victory points, have it equal 5 points per turn or something like that. That way, if the Japanese can hold historically "forward" positions like Lunga, Luganiville and PM for awhile, you get a disproportianllly high number of VPs.

3) Allied 4 engined bombers are way too powerful. I think that Macarthur and Halsey would have loved a weapon that could knock Rabaul out after 5-6 days of bombing, then maybe one visit every 2-3 days for the rest of the game to keep it beat down.

4) Similarly, level bombing from very high alitudes is way to powerful. I have had big bases knocked out by 60-70 B25s and b26s bombing from 15000-20000 feet for 4-5 days straight. At that altitude, you could not get concentration and accuracy.

5) Determine the historical victory rations, and then set that outcome as the ratio of victory. So if historically, using the game VP formula, the Japanese had 2/3 the victory points of the allies on December 31, 1943, then make that the margin of victory. Sure, the Japanese have some bonuses in the game in that they can avoid a Midway, but the allies have bonuses too in that they can mass produce bases for cheap victory points.

6) I made the mistake of not going for the Christmas surprise in the one PBEM I have played at length. I took PM, and the decided to dig in and go over to defense. It is now nearing the end of April 1943, I am down to about 400-500 aircraft total, most of my carriers are sunk, most of the allied carriers are still around, and the allies have just taken Lunga from me. I have however sunk over 230 allied ships, with 30 or so of those being PT boats. I have lost 85 ships total, for about 500-600 fewer VPs than all those allied ships, and I still think I am going to lose the game in the next 8 months.

[Admiral_Arctic]

Don't let Rabaul get knocked out. Send more engineers. Once the Allies have regained PM or Lunga I usually keep 350+ to repair any damage immediately. Keep your flak units there. Maybe base your bombers at Kevieng during heavy bombardments so your don't lose planes unnecessarily (especially the Nells, Bettys, Vals and Kates) . This makes more room at Rabaul for fighters. Size 9 airbase can accomodate 450 planes without penalty. You can still overload the base with more if you want to. Your planes might not shoot many down directly, but you will damage them and six-ten B17/24/25/26 crashing while returning to base is just as good. It won't be long and the Allies will be looking for easier targets like infantry at a small base. Return your bombers to Rabaul.