Showcasing WitE2 #3 - Logistics

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: Repsol

Have i understod this correct. A railyard depot may only have two possible levels of damage due to the railyard being bombed...
Either fully functional or functional at a mere 10 percent of its capacity.

If i have two prio 4 depots along the same rail line one after the other will the second depot recieve any freight if the first one has recieved up to its capacity ? or will the first prio 4 depot halt any further deliveries along that line ?

1. Where did you read that?

2. Freight is not stopped at the first depot. I've seen cases where a player has almost all of their depots set at level 4 although I generally don't recommend it. But you'll get differing opinions over it.

[ranknfile]

Below (the text not in italics) is my question to RedLancer (in the "War in the East 2 Full Manual Previews"). I am thinking that perhaps the confusion (mine and perhaps Respol's as well) is that two equal priority depots along the same rail will have supplies passing through the first depot to the second, NOT "coming from the first" to the second.

In 25.7 there is a picture with two Priority 3 Depots. The text refers to them:
"In this case the Soviet depot at Alekseevka (1) is drawing supply
from Svobida (2)."

The two named depots are both priority 3 depots, I thought a level 3 depot could only supply a higher priority depot. As per below:

"4.10.10. Depot Priority and freight
movement
A depot will only send freight to a depot at a higher priority
(so a priority 4 depot will not send freight to another depot)."

Not sure this helps, or only adds to the confusion! [8|]

[Repsol]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: Repsol

Have i understod this correct. A railyard depot may only have two possible levels of damage due to the railyard being bombed...
Either fully functional or functional at a mere 10 percent of its capacity.

If i have two prio 4 depots along the same rail line one after the other will the second depot recieve any freight if the first one has recieved up to its capacity ? or will the first prio 4 depot halt any further deliveries along that line ?

1. Where did you read that?

2. Freight is not stopped at the first depot. I've seen cases where a player has almost all of their depots set at level 4 although I generally don't recommend it. But you'll get differing opinions over it.

1...

25.4.2. Damaged Railyards
Railyard damage will reduce the amount of freight that
would be shipped and unloaded at a railyard depot in the
hex. There is a percentage chance equal to the railyard
damage that the amount shipped to a railyard depot will
be divided by 10.

2...

Thanks

[M60A3TTS]

So on (1) a damaged railyard will be from 1-99%. This is true whether it is bombed or captured. If the capacity of a base is 10k tons and it is 50% damaged, it can only hold 5k tons. Now that is of course what it can hold, and not what it can get. That is where that factor of 10 comes into play. In this example, a 50% damaged railyard also has a 50% chance that the freight shipped to its depot will be divided by 10. So the more your railyard is damaged, the greater chance it will see fewer supplies.

This is why you want a good number of railyards with functional depots in reasonable proximity to the front.

[Repsol]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

So on (1) a damaged railyard will be from 1-99%. This is true whether it is bombed or captured. If the capacity of a base is 10k tons and it is 50% damaged, it can only hold 5k tons. Now that is of course what it can hold, and not what it can get. That is where that factor of 10 comes into play. In this example, a 50% damaged railyard also has a 50% chance that the freight shipped to its depot will be divided by 10. So the more your railyard is damaged, the greater chance it will see fewer supplies.

This is why you want a good number of railyards with functional depots in reasonable proximity to the front.

Thanks..

So a 10K base damaged at 50% that had 2K stored since last turn could either recieve 3K (if random 50%(damage)is succesful)) filling up the depot to 5K...
or recieve 300 (if random 50% failes) filling up the depot to 2.3K....Given that freight and railyard/line capacity is avaliable.

Correct ?

[M60A3TTS]

There are no guarantees with the supply system. Depots may get freight in significant quantities and they may not. Think of those numbers more as theoretical maximums rather than assured deliveries.

[James80]

I also had problems with the refit option in Wite1. And this part of the manual is not really understandable for me:

25.8.1. Supply Priority and Maximum
Supply Allocation
Units linked to a HQ with a supply priority of less than
4 will not try to receive all the supply they notionally need.
The chart below shows how unit supply priority will limit
the extent that a unit will try to attempt replenishment
during a particular supply/replacement segment.
Unit Priority Percent of Need
4 < 90%
3 < 90%
2 <70%
1 <50%
0 <30%

Does that mean if a priority below 4 is assigned that unit will never get enough of it needs? Wouldn't it be better to reduce the TOE instead? In which case would you assign a priority of 0 or 1?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: James80

I also had problems with the refit option in Wite1. And this part of the manual is not really understandable for me:

25.8.1. Supply Priority and Maximum
Supply Allocation
Units linked to a HQ with a supply priority of less than
4 will not try to receive all the supply they notionally need.
The chart below shows how unit supply priority will limit
the extent that a unit will try to attempt replenishment
during a particular supply/replacement segment.
Unit Priority Percent of Need
4 < 90%
3 < 90%
2 <70%
1 <50%
0 <30%

Does that mean if a priority below 4 is assigned that unit will never get enough of it needs? Wouldn't it be better to reduce the TOE instead? In which case would you assign a priority of 0 or 1?

well TOE % is a poor guide to actual supply demand and is often slow to adjust either way.

what you are doing with those numbers is setting 2 things:

a) demand for supply on a particular sector
b) how much effort a given formation will put into gaining supply

So if you either want to build up your depots or simply can't supply enough to a sector then use those values to match off supply/demand. More importantly if local demand > supply then units will go looking for what is missing. As in WITW you can find yourself losing more MP/CV due to the resultant truck shortages than due to any supply shortages.

[dudefan]

"Note that depots will function less efficiently if either the railyard or port in the hex is damaged. In turn they will function more efficiently if a HQ (other than a type 4, High Command level HQ or any air HQ"

Does ist mean army hq (on axis side e.g.) can't do that? Too bad, since in my opinion army hqs would be in need of being buffed. Imo they only serve for leader checks and are otherwise useless.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: dudefan

"Note that depots will function less efficiently if either the railyard or port in the hex is damaged. In turn they will function more efficiently if a HQ (other than a type 4, High Command level HQ or any air HQ"

Does ist mean army hq (on axis side e.g.) can't do that? Too bad, since in my opinion army hqs would be in need of being buffed. Imo they only serve for leader checks and are otherwise useless.

no it really does mean what it says. All HQs apart from high commands (Stavka/OKH) or air commands improve the capacity of a depot. See the rules in 25.7.8

[dudefan]

Cool I misunderstood type 4 command. Thx. Can't wait

[James80]

well TOE % is a poor guide to actual supply demand and is often slow to adjust either way.

what you are doing with those numbers is setting 2 things:

a) demand for supply on a particular sector
b) how much effort a given formation will put into gaining supply

So if you either want to build up your depots or simply can't supply enough to a sector then use those values to match off supply/demand. More importantly if local demand > supply then units will go looking for what is missing. As in WITW you can find yourself losing more MP/CV due to the resultant truck shortages than due to any supply shortages.

Thanks for your fast response.

Just to get things clear for me:
If I order a unit priority of 1 then this unit will just get up to 50 % supply/replacement, although there would be enough supply in the depot? And if this is right: Would the unit get penalties for not having enough supplies?

[loki100]

yes and yes.

Its all a trade-off, if you don't demand supply on a secondary front there is more for a critical one (there isn't enough to set every depot and formation to #4 and fill up).

On the other hand, if local supply is limited, the rules on MP and CV calculation present you with deciding whether to accept a loss due to a lack of supply (as you say) or due to having the supply but a lack of trucks (as they are off collecting that supply). There is no easy solution to this, it can be very situational.

As an eg, in the AAR I posted, I could never solve the supply to Soviet formations in S Hungary, trying to do this crippled the in unit truck stock. So I set them all to priority #1 and limped on. I could partly solve the challenge on the direct approach to Budapest by using all the tricks to improve delivery, managing the tempo of operations and being fairly ruthless about putting secondary formations to a low supply level.

On the direct route to Berlin, I could manage with high priority commands basically by being prepared to work on optimising delivery and using operational pauses

[Repsol]

Would having a function to set a MAX DISTANCE for each individual unit (either on the unit info screen or on the commander report) to --- go search for supply --- be useful or would that be unneccesary and nedless micromanagment ?
Setting such a distance/limit could allow the player to prevent important units from waisting their trucks on long supply gathering trips to far away depots. They get what they can form the depots within the max range...but go no further.

[loki100]

maybe. No idea if that would create more management or not but the game design uses the twin pillars of depot priority (local supply) and HQ priority (local demand) with this interacting via the road and rail systems (for the most part).

There is a hard limit for the search for supply (30 hexes if I recall & it will try to use less than 75MP).

At that level it works in a manner similar to WiTW and you end up with a fairly common sense feel for what works where. In WiTW there was no point putting Allied units moving towards Alsace etc on much of a supply priority as it just wasn't there. The WiTE2 map is relatively easy to read in this respect with some experience (just the dead zones are frustratingly different for both sides - due to the rail net layouts).

You end up with some rough and ready rules. Take the Germans in 1941, from say mid-July you probably have the supply on average to give everyone say level 2.5. So you could split your formations 2/3 and it would work out not too bad. But its not uniform in the sense of delivery capacity or local demand- assuming you are keeping roughly to the historical model AGC somehow has to supply 2 Pzr Armies, so that adds a huge dump of local demand, and you want them to be mobile (that is after all their real value) so you may need to suppress infantry supply levels (or keep the LW back).

[Repsol]

OK, thanks...
I guess that experimenting with this will be part of the game challange [8D]

[Anonymous]

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