Market Garden

[Orzel Bialy]

no apology required from you my friend. You gave some fellow community members a link to some very fine maps.

The fact that the author of those maps felt it necessary to pay a visit and start up with a self-serving address on the evils of non-historical game play is what was unfortunate.

I apologize for having used up too much space in this thread with my replies to David. It was not my intent to get into a debate here...it was only to ask for the topic David introduced to be taken elsewhere. This thread was for people who were looking to play a game...not hear a lecture.

Please forgive my intrusion.

[M4Jess]

Originally posted by Orzel Bialy
no apology required from you my friend. You gave some fellow community members a link to some very fine maps.

The fact that the author of those maps felt it necessary to pay a visit and start up with a self-serving address on the evils of non-historical game play is what was unfortunate.

I apologize for having used up too much space in this thread with my replies to David. It was not my intent to get into a debate here...it was only to ask for the topic David introduced to be taken elsewhere. This thread was for people who were looking to play a game...not hear a lecture.

Please forgive my intrusion.

Trouble Maker....

*Slap**Slap**Slap*:mad:

[David boutwell]

"This thread was for people who were looking to play a game...not hear a lecture."

So stop friggin' lecturing then, Orzel. If anyone is "butting in", it is you, my man! I came here to this post because I have a keen interest in the topic. And as far as I can discern, almost everyone else in here does too. What are you here for? Are you interesested in the topic? No, you came to lecture. Period. My comments attacked no one specifically. If you have a personal problem with me, ...I'll stop before I really get out of hand and say what I'm thinking.

"Where are the DAR/AARs on Davids "perfect" designs? Oh thats right..those guys are playing and enjoying mine! And while out of scale..mine rocks!"

Looking.....Looking....Can't find where I used the word PERFECT, Jess. I posted my Arnhem scenario in this community before you were even around, Jess. Back in the days when Wild Bill was a regular. I submitted my work to him, and he passed it on to Mogami, as well. I stopped posting my stuff here because people in here prefer scenarios like yours. So what does that mean???? How can it mean that yours are somehow superior when, first, people have few comparisons, and second our scenarios are like night and day. Well, to save some time, I'll simply post a "short" scenario and a long scenario right here. I might have to attach one here and the other in a different post.


David Boutwell

[David boutwell]

And a smaller one... THis one's been somewhat recently posted in the "Dirty Dozen" website.


David Boutwell

[David boutwell]

I'll post the Nijmegan scenario soon.

David Boutwell

[Orzel Bialy]

that are to blame. Tisk tisk...for shame. :rolleyes:

[LordCucumber]

Again, it is still Nijmegen :rolleyes:

names are hard aren't they.. try a good atlas... you know, them books, with maps

Hows that for a lecture.. LOL

[Orzel Bialy]

get sassy now Cyricist! lol

[M4Jess]

Originally posted by David boutwell
"Where are the DAR/AARs on Davids "perfect" designs? Oh thats right..those guys are playing and enjoying mine! And while out of scale..mine rocks!"

Looking.....Looking....Can't find where I used the word PERFECT, Jess. I posted my Arnhem scenario in this community before you were even around, Jess. Back in the days when Wild Bill was a regular. I submitted my work to him, and he passed it on to Mogami, as well. I stopped posting my stuff here because people in here prefer scenarios like yours. So what does that mean???? How can it mean that yours are somehow superior when, first, people have few comparisons, and second our scenarios are like night and day. Well, to save some time, I'll simply post a "short" scenario and a long scenario right here. I might have to attach one here and the other in a different post.

David Boutwell

David I have been around alot longer than (you) ..of course the way you belittle anyones work but your own is getting kind of funny... yet sad...when you started your MG designs mine was already posted and I remember sending you a copy of mine only to have you start putting it down right off the bat..and then there was my Peiper Camp...Dont worry sonny maby some day.
I tried to befriend you along time ago...it is clear you cant have any. And you never did answer my question...do you even play scenarios? or just "Make" history?:rolleyes:
Jezzz dude...F'n grow up!

[David boutwell]

"Again, it is still Nijmegen

names are hard aren't they.. try a good atlas... you know, them books, with maps

Hows that for a lecture.. LOL"

Loud and clear, Cyricist. But I'm not sure if you are correct (If you are, then a lot of your own countrymen are just as bad at spelling as I am. It has been several months since I worked on that scenario, and communicated with Dutch historians, and have since been working on American place names like Gettysburg. However, if you do a search on "Nijmegan" on Google, you will get 2,040 hits, all of which are associated with said city.

Some examples:

Victoria University International Agreements
Hogeschool Van Arnhem en Nijmegan, Netherlands. Institution Name, Hogeschool Van
Arnhem en Nijmegan. ... Contact Information, Postbus 6970, 6503 GL Nijmegan, HOLLAND. ...
www.vicuni.com/ Display_Institution.cfm?InstitutionID=93 - 7k - Cached - Similar pages

LINGUIST List 13.2149: Historical Ling: PhD research, Netherlands
... Univ of Nijmegan, Netherlands. Message 1: Support: Historical Ling:
PhD research, Univ of Nijmegan, Netherlands. Date: Wed, 21 Aug ...
www.linguistlist.org/issues/13/13-2149.html - 3k - Cached - Similar pages

So, if i'm mistaken, I'm in good company...


I wanted to mention that for those of you who choose to tackle the Arnhem scenario, and want to play against the AI, play the Brits. If you choose to play the Germans, because the game engine doesn't allow for the correct modeling of bridges on land, Graebner's forces should not try to leave the Bridge approach ramp until the end of the ramp. Doing otherwise screws up the whole design/balance of the scenario. I came up with a solution for that problem using WAWMAP, but I don't know if I implemented it for thae version that I posted.

David Boutwell

[LordCucumber]

Originally posted by Orzel Bialy
get sassy now Cyricist! lol

OK, just a few more small remarks and I will bud out. I've studied war history as part of my education and hobby and I find the moaning for complete historical accuracy a bit overdone. First off, you can NEVER fully recreate something in a game (it's been said and I will say it again). It's just impossible. Second off, the strive to make a scenario historically correct is admirable, commenting on other people's work is not (my little naming sting above is actually very rude, but I try to make just that point there). Third off, it's a game.. it's NOT REAL.. if it were REAL, then NOBODY here would enjoy it.. ever.. REAL war is not fun.. a game is.. period. No need to get all fried up over a game, David.

I ain't sassy, dang naggit!

Edit: I am correct, I live here and I know how to spell Nijmegen thank you very much. God, do I need to include a local roadmap...

Edit 2: the city's own website might do the trick? http://www.nijmegen.nl/

[tracer]

Originally posted by M4 Jess
Trouble maker!!!!!:mad:

spank spank spank........:rolleyes:

Wait a minute...aren't you still in the doghouse!? You can't distribute spankings while you're still 'assuming the position'! :p :p

[Orzel Bialy]

don't mind me...just strolling through...humming a tune to myself

[LordCucumber]

A roadmap to make my point.. Gosh I love being a quasi offended overreacting Dutch nationalist..:

http://tools.locatienet.com/finder/map. ... n_id=88281

Really David.. not everyone on the Internet knows how to spell..

[David boutwell]

"David I have been around alot longer than (you) ..of course the way you belittle anyones work but your own is getting kind of funny... yet sad...when you started your MG designs mine was already posted and I remember sending you a copy of mine only to have you start putting it down right off the bat..and then there was my Peiper Camp...Dont worry sonny maby some day.
I tried to befriend you along time ago...it is clear you cant have any. And you never did answer my question...do you even play scenarios? or just "Make" history?
Jezzz dude...F'n grow up!"

You are f'n fooling yourself, now, Jess. Look at the date of your joining this forum, then look at mine. My Arnhem scenarion was constructed with the first version of SPWAW, or whatever it was called then. So, give me a break! Some day what? I can create dozens of scenarios that look just like many that have come before. Don't worry, I'll never fill your shoes in that area. That's your "territory".

"I tried to befriend you along time ago...it is clear you cant have any"

That's pathetic! That sounds so elementary school playground.

And I think that I did answer your question, as Orzel commented on my response.

You guys wanted to continue this, so don't continue bitching at me for "lecturing".

[David boutwell]

Originally posted by Cyricist
A roadmap to make my point.. Gosh I love being a quasi offended overreacting Dutch nationalist..:

http://tools.locatienet.com/finder/map. ... n_id=88281

Really David.. not everyone on the Internet knows how to spell..

I bet you get really mad when you see the German spelling of Arnhem, don't you?

[tracer]

Originally posted by Cyricist


Edit: I am correct, I live here and I know how to spell Nijmegen thank you very much. God, do I need to include a local roadmap...

Edit 2: the city's own website might do the trick? http://www.nijmegen.nl/

C,
In David's defense, I should point out that we're often taught the 'anglicized' spelling of cities, and our references use the same. A good WW2 example is Ploesti, Romania...the inhabitants of that city actually spell it Ploiesti. I agree that its a bad practice, and often comes back to haunt us.

When I was in grade school, we were taught that the capital of China was Peking...try finding that on a map now!

[Orzel Bialy]

Had to stop for moment there...thought I heard something? Nope...must have been a gust of hot wind...guess I'll just keep on strolling along.

[LordCucumber]

Now you listen mr Boutwell... you want to be accurate.. that is fine.. you want to comment on others.. fine too.. but PLEASE if you have any SENSE of decency in your veigns DO NOT correct someone on the basis of an internet resource..

There are these people you know, who think the war never took place.. you can find them on your average neonazi site.. now we both know that the information found there may be SLIGHTLY inaccurate... so.. in defense of all that is dear to me (including the spelling of townnames in my country):

Go visit a library and look a little further when researching the history of MY country..

Geesh I never thought I would get this patriotic over a spelling mistake..

Edit: tracer, the places you name here do not share our alfabet. Chinese script and the Russian alfabet NEED to be translated. Nijmegen does not. It's perfectly easy to write it as is.

[tracer]

Originally posted by Orzel Bialy
Had to stop for moment there...thought I heard something? Nope...must have been a gust of hot wind...guess I'll just keep on strolling along.

Yeah, sorry; the wife made corned beef and cabbage for dinner. (sniff)...ya might wanna stroll a bit faster there.