Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) vs ITAKLinus (A)

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

I may have missed it, but do you guys have any HR's in place?

You did not miss it, I neglected to mention them so this is a good time to rectify the oversight.

Aside from the pretty standard first turn rules (In which I insisted on adding in no invasions within two hexes of a port sized 4 or above for realism), the rest of the rules are mostly:

1) PPs to be paid in full to cross borders, no shortcuts.
2) Thai troops to stay in Thailand
3) No night airfield/port bombing, strategic night bombing is fair game.
4) No para split/sub landings
5) On Francesco's own insistence, no 4E on naval attack (excluding Mavis/Emily).
6) No strat bombing in China until June 1944.
7) Max 800 carrier aircraft per hex / Max 800 land based aircraft stacking level per hex

[DesertWolf101]

December 11, 1941

SRA

Betty and Nell bombers staging from Manado joined in with torpedo runs against fleeing Allied ships in the Celebes Sea, sinking half a dozen transports and auxiliaries of various types. IJN submarines also increased their rate of hits during the night, sinking some nice transports and tankers previously damaged during the first day air strike on Singapore. Japanese destroyers tangled with and sank several motor torpedo boats, but no further sighting of enemy warships beyond that this turn.

In Malaya Georgetown was taken by spearhead armored forces while the 22nd Australian Brigade was mauled by the 4th Division during its capture of Mersing. Some Dutch 139WH-3 bombers attempted to strike the Kota Bharu airfields but were roughly dealt with by Oscars. Overall the situation looks quite promising in Malaya.

The landings in the Philippines are now underway, concentrated predominantly at Aparri. Zeros on LRCAP struck down a dozen or so of Francesco's responding SOC-1 Seagulls and P-35As but some slipped through to sink an Aden class cargo ship. I also lost an empty Lima class cargo ship to a Dutch submarine close to Samah.

China

I lost four sally bombers close to Sinyang to a bounce from the flying tigers, but other airstrikes proceeded smoothly, including an intervention in the air in support of the Ichang garrison where the Chinese attacked a second time and reduced the fort levels once more.

[DesertWolf101]

Hong Kong was also attacked this turn and forts were knocked down a level. Disruption and fatigue are still at pretty good levels so I have decided to attack again next turn.

[rustysi]

For night fighters, ditch the Randy-C. It arrives too late and the radar is stuck to a 10/45 activation date.

The highlighted section is a moot point, as what it basically means that no IJA NF will have radar, as the Randy is the only one that gets it.

Not a fan of the Tojo, suggest you ditch it completely , but that's something of a ccontroversial opinion on here.

The Tojo should be your 'bridge' to the Frank. The Oscar's air frame is just too light.

Going George over Jack also a smart move.

+1

On the Zero, what's the merit in the M8 vs the 5c? I've found the 5c the best all-round model

5c best all-round, could be, but I prefer to use it and the 5b in tandem. 5c, fleet defender, 5b, escort.

[jdsrae]

On the Zero, what's the merit in the M8 vs the 5c? I've found the 5c the best all-round model

M8 has a +4% top speed over the 5c with 350mph vs 336. The M8 gets the 5b speed back while providing armour protection for the pilot.
M8 also has a +20% manoeuvre performance up to 20k' with 29 vs 24.

Based on the above, the M8 is clearly superior to all M5 versions in the CAP range 0 fleet defender role.
M8 can also escort out to range 8 with drop tanks, so can escort too.

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

On the Zero, what's the merit in the M8 vs the 5c? I've found the 5c the best all-round model

M8 has a +4% top speed over the 5c with 350mph vs 336. The M8 gets the 5b speed back while providing armour protection for the pilot.
M8 also has a +20% manoeuvre performance up to 20k' with 29 vs 24.

Based on the above, the M8 is clearly superior to all M5 versions in the CAP range 0 fleet defender role.
M8 can also escort out to range 8 with drop tanks, so can escort too.

The 5c does have superior firepower and comes earlier. Overall I prefer the M8 too though.

[DesertWolf101]

December 12, 1941

SRA

I anticipated a full response from the Americans over the landing beaches at Aparri today so I put up a strong CAP of Zeros backed up by some Nates at low altitude. Instead of going with a mix of sweeps and naval attack missions, Francesco went all in with sweeps. The Japanese fighters did ok in the resulting dogfights, knocking out about two P-40s for every Zero/Nate destroyed. Most importantly only one Zero pilot was permanently lost as the fighting was over Japanese territory.

Francesco also began B-17 harassing raids this turn. He successfully destroyed four small one-point PBs docked at Batan Island and scored a single hit on light industry in Cambodia. Will need to hunt these beasts down before they start doing real damage.

For my part Japanese subs and Netties continued with their streak of carnage, sinking some riff raff as well as some nice tankers, transports, etc. across the region. (I also got my first kill off the West Coast - a nice C2-class AK).

The attack on Hong Kong went well today and knocked down forts another peg. Will continue on with another assault next turn, hopefully the last one.

China

China is where I had a pretty bad day today. I mauled a few Chinese Corps some more and was spared another attack at Ichang, but a very nasty and well crafted ambush by the Flying Tigers knocked out 24 of my Sallys. Ouch, and good play by Francesco! The air losses for the day are listed below:

[DesertWolf101]

Central Pacific

Francesco's refusal to meet my sweeps galvanized me into risking a port strike while enemy fighters were still in large numbers at Pearl. Once more nothing came up to meet the Japanese aviators but the weather was pretty dismal (heavy rain) so not as many hits were scored a I had hoped. I wonder how much floatation damage, on average of course, each of these 800kg bombs caused to a battleships. Not sure it's worth sticking around too much longer if it's just a couple extra points of damage per hit. I have already spent way more time with the KB visible than I ever done in the past.

Also, I got a massive explosion message when I hit SS Dolphin. I know that's different than the magazine, fuel, or ammo explosion notifications, but does anyone have some knowledge on what that message indicates? Perhaps similar to the others and indicates more damaging secondary explosions?

[rustysi]

Overall I prefer the M8 too though.

I prefer the Sam, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.[:D]

I don't know how you play (and that's up to you), but I don't skip aircraft models in the development chain. So that means to get the M8 will take some time, or a huge R&D commitment, and the game affords me neither.[:D]

[rustysi]

I wonder how much flotation damage, on average of course, each of these 800kg bombs caused to a battleships.

Its been my experience (and that's not enormous) that they cause either a large amount of damage, or very little. IIRC they have high levels of duds. Hey, just like real life. Oh, that AE.[:'(]

I got a massive explosion message when I hit SS Dolphin.

but does anyone have some knowledge on what that message indicates?

Messages like this one are never good for the receiving vessel.[:D]

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

I wonder how much flotation damage, on average of course, each of these 800kg bombs caused to a battleships.

Its been my experience (and that's not enormous) that they cause either a large amount of damage, or very little. IIRC they have high levels of duds. Hey, just like real life. Oh, that AE.[:'(]

I got a massive explosion message when I hit SS Dolphin.

but does anyone have some knowledge on what that message indicates?

Messages like this one are never good for the receiving vessel.[:D]

Also remember at times like this, it is better to give than to receive!

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

I don't know how you play (and that's up to you), but I don't skip aircraft models in the development chain. So that means to get the M8 will take some time, or a huge R&D commitment, and the game affords me neither.[:D]

We have no issues with skipping aircraft models in the development chain, so I have the option of getting the M8 earlier if need be.

[DesertWolf101]

December 13, 1941

Has is it only been a week of war? Seems like so much has happened since the 7th...

Central Pacific

Nevermind trying to finish off the damaged ships at Pearl, I have wasted enough time with the KB visible and my pilots need some quieter days. I launched some sweeps and traded kills/losses on a one to one basis with the defending fighters. Nowhere near good enough and I have no intention of wasting away elite aircrew.

China

Doing ok here in China as I continue to maul a number of Chinese Corps all over the map. Whether I will be able to translate my early moves in this theater into something meaningful remains to be seen. Ichang was held in force and Francesco paid a hefty price in destroyed squads in his effort to take it.

SRA

The 4th Division has cut the rail from Singapore to the rest of Malaya, and Japanese armor is racing down south to link up with the 4th. Operations are going as planned here. I expect the assault into Singapore to occur before the end of the month. Hong Kong also appears on its last legs with forts at 0. We shall see if the next attack takes it. To the southeast of the region I have taken Kendari under the cover of Nettie bombers.

The fun part of the day was when I pinpointed Boise/Houston's hiding place in the Philippines through a combination of naval search and SIGINT. I sent in Nettie bombers to plaster them and plaster them they did. Unfortunately Boise's infernal luck held up as always, and she only took one 250kg penetrating hit. Houston on the other hand is in trouble, having taken 4-5 of the same.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101
We have no issues with skipping aircraft models in the development chain, so I have the option of getting the M8 earlier if need be.

Then by all means go for M8, the pause between its arrival compared to earlier models is insignificant. You can get it as early as summer 42 and it is a game changer for IJNAF. Generous expansion in Ha-33 production is a given too, M8 is a massive additional draw on those

Also, check one more time with your opponent. Maybe he is not fully aware of how differently R&D works with skipping intermediate models. Skipping is a massive additional advantage for Japan

[mind_messing]

I wonder how much floatation damage, on average of course, each of these 800kg bombs caused to a battleships.

Not terribly much, in my experience. Sys and engineering damage aplenty, but not much of flotation unless it's from fighting the fires.

Also, I got a massive explosion message when I hit SS Dolphin. I know that's different than the magazine, fuel, or ammo explosion notifications, but does anyone have some knowledge on what that message indicates? Perhaps similar to the others and indicates more damaging secondary explosions?

I tend to treat the "critical hit" or "massive explosion" as being equal to another bomb hit. Ammo or fuel explosions I treat as another torpedo hit. Magazine explosions as two torpedos.

The fun part of the day was when I pinpointed Boise/Houston's hiding place in the Philippines through a combination of naval search and SIGINT. I sent in Nettie bombers to plaster them and plaster them they did. Unfortunately Boise's infernal luck held up as always, and she only took one 250kg penetrating hit. Houston on the other hand is in trouble, having taken 4-5 of the same.

Even with so few penetrating hits, the sandpaper effect of the bombing will have driven sys damage up to uncomfortable levels for combat operations, plus the benefit from any weapons knocked out on the ships.

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101
We have no issues with skipping aircraft models in the development chain, so I have the option of getting the M8 earlier if need be.

Then by all means go for M8, the pause between its arrival compared to earlier models is insignificant. You can get it as early as summer 42 and it is a game changer for IJNAF. Generous expansion in Ha-33 production is a given too, M8 is a massive additional draw on those

Also, check one more time with your opponent. Maybe he is not fully aware of how differently R&D works with skipping intermediate models. Skipping is a massive additional advantage for Japan

Francesco is very well versed with the Japanese side and regularly skips aircraft models in his games. No issues here!

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I wonder how much floatation damage, on average of course, each of these 800kg bombs caused to a battleships.

Not terribly much, in my experience. Sys and engineering damage aplenty, but not much of flotation unless it's from fighting the fires.

Also, I got a massive explosion message when I hit SS Dolphin. I know that's different than the magazine, fuel, or ammo explosion notifications, but does anyone have some knowledge on what that message indicates? Perhaps similar to the others and indicates more damaging secondary explosions?

I tend to treat the "critical hit" or "massive explosion" as being equal to another bomb hit. Ammo or fuel explosions I treat as another torpedo hit. Magazine explosions as two torpedos.

The fun part of the day was when I pinpointed Boise/Houston's hiding place in the Philippines through a combination of naval search and SIGINT. I sent in Nettie bombers to plaster them and plaster them they did. Unfortunately Boise's infernal luck held up as always, and she only took one 250kg penetrating hit. Houston on the other hand is in trouble, having taken 4-5 of the same.

Even with so few penetrating hits, the sandpaper effect of the bombing will have driven sys damage up to uncomfortable levels for combat operations, plus the benefit from any weapons knocked out on the ships.

Interesting take on how you assess those damage event messages. From what I have seen with the ammo/fuel explosions I think you are probably pretty close to how it usually averages out.

[DesertWolf101]

December 14, 1941

SRA

I've sunk the Boise does that mean I've already won? [:D]

Predicting that Francesco would run for the Legaspi gap with the Boise, I flank sped the Aoba heavy cruiser task force there to intercept. Sure enough, Boise, with the destroyer Pillsbury as escort, came into sight and were engaged. Pillsbury was sunk during the night and Boise was brought to heel during the day phase after a gallant fight in which her 6 inch guns did not cease barking out in a rapid staccato till the bitter end.

In Malaya, Francesco landed a small force at an empty Mersing to retake it. I have already cut the rail and unless he defeats the 4th Division it will stay cut so I am not sure what he is trying to achieve. Plenty of supply left for the division till the armor catches up too. I've also started bombing Singapore from the air but heavy thunderstorms today so not much damage was inflicted even if I did destroy a couple of valuable Catalinas and a few other planes.

China

Hong Kong was taken today. The Flying Tigers attempted to intervene against the bombing raids but were largely rendered ineffective by a timely Nate sweep. Still nowhere near enough Oscars or Zeros at this very early stage so judicious use of Nates is unavoidable given both of our elevated air use.

South-West Pacific

The enemy was bold and sent warships charging in to intercept a troop convoy heading to Rabaul. The last turn I had ordered the troop convoy to pull back north once it was picked up by long range naval search near Kavieng as I did not feel right about the whole positioning here - no advanced warning from SIGINT or navsearch just instinctually felt like I was in a bad place. Thankfully, the enemy warships hit thin air (or empty water) and the Canberra which was charged with suppressing Rabaul's airfields is going to be disappointed to learn that they have already been fully repaired.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I wonder how much floatation damage, on average of course, each of these 800kg bombs caused to a battleships.

Not terribly much, in my experience. Sys and engineering damage aplenty, but not much of flotation unless it's from fighting the fires.

Also, I got a massive explosion message when I hit SS Dolphin. I know that's different than the magazine, fuel, or ammo explosion notifications, but does anyone have some knowledge on what that message indicates? Perhaps similar to the others and indicates more damaging secondary explosions?

I tend to treat the "critical hit" or "massive explosion" as being equal to another bomb hit. Ammo or fuel explosions I treat as another torpedo hit. Magazine explosions as two torpedos.

The fun part of the day was when I pinpointed Boise/Houston's hiding place in the Philippines through a combination of naval search and SIGINT. I sent in Nettie bombers to plaster them and plaster them they did. Unfortunately Boise's infernal luck held up as always, and she only took one 250kg penetrating hit. Houston on the other hand is in trouble, having taken 4-5 of the same.

Even with so few penetrating hits, the sandpaper effect of the bombing will have driven sys damage up to uncomfortable levels for combat operations, plus the benefit from any weapons knocked out on the ships.

Interesting take on how you assess those damage event messages. From what I have seen with the ammo/fuel explosions I think you are probably pretty close to how it usually averages out.

Yeah, there's definitely quite some variability in it all. Hard to pin down as there tends to be a lot else going badly wrong (or right) when ships are having those events occurring.

That said, I did get a single 46cm superstructure hit on a USN BB a while back. That cause about 33 points of system damage, so that's been a good rule of thumb!

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

That said, I did get a single 46cm superstructure hit on a USN BB a while back. That cause about 33 points of system damage, so that's been a good rule of thumb!

That would the be extreme high I think...seen those shells hit the superstructure and keep going doing less than 10 system damage.[:)]