Jubjub (Axis) Vs Gam3r (Sov) - '43 GC

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Magyarorszag on the Move


Under pressure from Hitler, Horthy's finest leave the comforts of home to fight and die on the Eastern front. Hopefully they don't start any fights with the Romanians..

Hahahahaha.

You could always start one by Assigning Hungarians to Rumanian HQ's and Rumanians to Hungarian HQ's!!!! I brought this up in Beta and I believe they said they were going to fix it to where you couldn't but you can still can do it

[jubjub]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Hahahahaha.

You could always start one by Assigning Hungarians to Rumanian HQ's and Rumanians to Hungarian HQ's!!!! I brought this up in Beta and I believe they said they were going to fix it to where you couldn't but you can still can do it

I've noticed that too. I think it's a bit silly and I try not to do that since it seems quite unhistorical.

[jubjub]

Air Drop

The 3rd or 4th air drop of the game cuts off 1st Panzer Army. Not sure how to deal with these. Should be cleaned up next turn, but it's still annoying.

[jubjub]

Plans for Summer of '42

I've asked Gam3r not to look at this thread for a while because I want to share some larger operational plans for the summer. The objectives are the VP cities in orange, which combine for 120 points - assuming the full time bonus is hit. This addition of points should get me very close to 750 points, with an extra push on Tambov/Ryazan or Machakala/Grozny to seal the deal before October.


Note that I'm not starting from an incredibly advanced position, and I really don't have to conquer that much of Russia for the auto win. The bar would be much higher had I not received all of the bonus points in 1941, so whoever says that there's no incentive for the Soviets to hang on and fight in '41 should take notice of this situation.


The first phase of the plan is shown by the drawn arrows. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Panzer Armies are tasked with encircling and destroying the Soviet army around Orel, and then pushing onto Tula and Voronezh. Ryazan may be taken as well depending on the situation. There are currently 16 motorized and panzer divisions in these armies, and that number will probably go up to 20-22. While this operation is going on, the Crimea will be cleared, and hopefully all of those units can be surrendered. Rostov is also a secondary objective during this time.


Last game, the Germans embarked on a similar strategy, but had a better starting position, and I went for Tambov. Ryazan is fairly manageable because of the major river guarding the northern flank of the advance, but going for Tambov felt like a huge stretch, and I felt forced to continue on to Saratov. Tambov is off limits this game except for a last minute push to secure an auto win.

[jubjub]

Crimea Situation


Crimea should fall easily once the mud clears. All that needs to happen is to cut off the port in Feodosiya and interdict the port in Yalta. I've been running interdiction missions with great success already to test for the real deal and limit the supplies flowing into the peninsula.

[jubjub]

Second Phase - Southern Plan

Once Central Russia has been occupied, 2nd and 3rd Panzer armies will transfer south to the Rostov area to begin the second phase of the summer plan. The objective of this phase mandates the conquest of Stalingrad and Maikop. Hopefully this phase can start in the beginning of August. 2nd and 3rd Panzer armies, along with 11th and 17 armies will be tasked with these objectives. It's honestly unlikely that these objectives can be reached before the October cutoff, but we can jack the VP number up as much as possible anyway.


The red line indicates the anticipated position of the front lines at the start of the offensive. The mentality here is to just go for it and see what happens. It's probably going to be difficult to encircle the Soviets in this direction, so we'll just rely on a rapid advance to keep them off guard.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Plans for Summer of '42

I've asked Gam3r not to look at this thread for a while because I want to share some larger operational plans for the summer. The objectives are the VP cities in orange, which combine for 120 points - assuming the full time bonus is hit. This addition of points should get me very close to 750 points, with an extra push on Tambov/Ryazan or Machakala/Grozny to seal the deal before October.


Note that I'm not starting from an incredibly advanced position, and I really don't have to conquer that much of Russia for the auto win. The bar would be much higher had I not received all of the bonus points in 1941, so whoever says that there's no incentive for the Soviets to hang on and fight in '41 should take notice of this situation.


The first phase of the plan is shown by the drawn arrows. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Panzer Armies are tasked with encircling and destroying the Soviet army around Orel, and then pushing onto Tula and Voronezh. Ryazan may be taken as well depending on the situation. There are currently 16 motorized and panzer divisions in these armies, and that number will probably go up to 20-22. While this operation is going on, the Crimea will be cleared, and hopefully all of those units can be surrendered. Rostov is also a secondary objective during this time.


Last game, the Germans embarked on a similar strategy, but had a better starting position, and I went for Tambov. Ryazan is fairly manageable because of the major river guarding the northern flank of the advance, but going for Tambov felt like a huge stretch, and I felt forced to continue on to Saratov. Tambov is off limits this game except for a last minute push to secure an auto win.

Should be interesting and good luck.

[jubjub]

Crimea Update

Successfully took the eastern port, and interdicted Yalta in both phases, so now everything is pocketed. The priority is to take the port in Yalta to lessen the burden on the Luftwaffe.


I've attached the air directive because a lot of people struggle to do these well, and it took me a lot of dead airplanes to learn how to do it..

[jubjub]

Neat little pocket. Should be about 40,000 men and 100 tanks if the pocket holds (unlikely). Probably shouldn't have parked my planes there. Crimea is almost all the way cleared, and 11th army will proceed straight onto the Caucasus mountains after a quick break..

[jubjub]

Through the month of June, 2nd Pz Army surrounds and destroys 29th army, and 3rd Pz Army surrounds Orel for immediate liquidation. Currently debating whether to continue towards Tula, or turn east to Voronezh, Stalingrad, and the Caucasus. Attacking the Soviets with a 5.8 million man army is like running into a brick wall, especially when they are prepared for you. There seems to be a large build up around Tula, so a turn east may throw them off.


11th Army fails to cross the straight of Kerch, and relocates to the Donets bend. The Crimea offensive should've waited until clear weather. The Soviets were able to evacuate 80-90% of the units in the peninsula through the port of Yalta during the May mud.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Through the month of June, 2nd Pz Army surrounds and destroys 29th army, and 3rd Pz Army surrounds Orel for immediate liquidation. Currently debating whether to continue towards Tula, or turn east to Voronezh, Stalingrad, and the Caucasus. Attacking the Soviets with a 5.8 million man army is like running into a brick wall, especially when they are prepared for you. There seems to be a large build up around Tula, so a turn east may throw them off.

...

My game with SpeedySteve is in much the same situation, so in a very odd way this is re-assuring [:)]

I'm finding the only way is to batter a given sector turn after turn, in the end the Soviets tend to their NM and then it escalates into ready routs and a few shatters.

Of course it does feel more like re-enacting Verdun [:)]

[jubjub]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Through the month of June, 2nd Pz Army surrounds and destroys 29th army, and 3rd Pz Army surrounds Orel for immediate liquidation. Currently debating whether to continue towards Tula, or turn east to Voronezh, Stalingrad, and the Caucasus. Attacking the Soviets with a 5.8 million man army is like running into a brick wall, especially when they are prepared for you. There seems to be a large build up around Tula, so a turn east may throw them off.

...

My game with SpeedySteve is in much the same situation, so in a very odd way this is re-assuring [:)]

I'm finding the only way is to batter a given sector turn after turn, in the end the Soviets tend to their NM and then it escalates into ready routs and a few shatters.

Of course it does feel more like re-enacting Verdun [:)]

Yeah, I’ve been doing deliberate assaults with stacks of infantry to destroy his front line and reserve forces, then my tanks can go in and surround units with hasty attacks. Another benefit of going to the Caucasus is that their supply situation is poor, so they can’t field as many troops.

I had to pull lots of infantry off the line to accumulate enough bodies for this job, so my defense is weak in places.. thankfully that hasn’t been exploited yet.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: jubjub

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Through the month of June, 2nd Pz Army surrounds and destroys 29th army, and 3rd Pz Army surrounds Orel for immediate liquidation. Currently debating whether to continue towards Tula, or turn east to Voronezh, Stalingrad, and the Caucasus. Attacking the Soviets with a 5.8 million man army is like running into a brick wall, especially when they are prepared for you. There seems to be a large build up around Tula, so a turn east may throw them off.

...

My game with SpeedySteve is in much the same situation, so in a very odd way this is re-assuring [:)]

I'm finding the only way is to batter a given sector turn after turn, in the end the Soviets tend to their NM and then it escalates into ready routs and a few shatters.

Of course it does feel more like re-enacting Verdun [:)]

Yeah, I’ve been doing deliberate assaults with stacks of infantry to destroy his front line and reserve forces, then my tanks can go in and surround units with hasty attacks. Another benefit of going to the Caucasus is that their supply situation is poor, so they can’t field as many troops.

I had to pull lots of infantry off the line to accumulate enough bodies for this job, so my defense is weak in places.. thankfully that hasn’t been exploited yet.

You are correct on your way of thinking on battering the Soviets along with having to do "deliberate assaults". The reserve activation will eat you alive on hasty attacks. But hasty attacks at the right time can be devastating. Big thumbs up here

[jubjub]

Update:

Fall is here, and the German offensive is likely over for the year. Going for Voronezh was a mistake, and I should've continued to Tula or gone for Stalingrad instead. Got a new VP HWM though, even if it's not very impressive. The goal now is to destroy as much of the Red Army as possible before the onset of winter. Will likely not go for any VP's so I can maximize the HWM in '43 - assuming the Wehrmacht is up to it.

Gam3r pulled pretty much the entire VVS back to the reserves this turn, which accounts for a large amount of the reduction in on map OOB.



Map situation



VP Update



OOB


Losses

[jubjub]

New combat model results in devastation at the hands of the 103rd Flak Regiment.

[Oberst Hausser]

You mean like Rinehart and Von Leeb said ? per Leningrad...

If you could manage it ( a big IF) it is not worth doing early as the Russian has many reinforcements that (despite being low morale etc) will chew into your TIME.

There is only one direction for the first 6 turns EAST!!!!

At THAT point you will probably STILL need to rehabilitate some motorized units. It is the interaction between KEEPING units in good order/ supply etc that will DETERMINE what you can best do. Attacking into Soviet fronts like a battering ram may look good BUT try 6 in a row and your Panzer units will be in a shocking state ( excuse the intended pun).

Sooo look before you leap AND work out if you have the resources to do it. A LOT more attention can be paid to the air war btw, also you can interdict Leningrad etc thus degrading them bit by bit.

[jubjub]

BRUTAL

Ostheer receives almost 0 replacements during the logistics phase. The occupation of France devours all of reinforcements this turn. It's going to be very difficult to make counter attacks and set up defenses how they need to be this turn. The only upside is that the army is able to catch up on their supplies since they didn't use any freight for reinforcements. Truck losses are also as low as they've been in a while.

On the flip side, Gam3r brought something like 400,000 men to the front this turn.

Reinforcements to France eat my men:



Nothing makes it to map:



Theater Box OOB way up:



Map OOB way down:

[jubjub]

It's pretty clear to me that Theater Box units have absolute priority over anything else - including SR units on refit.

[jubjub]

Air Losses:

Keeping this one in the AAR bc there's enough threads discussing the air war. However, I think this turn really highlights how under-powered the Soviet fighters are. Gam3r brought his air force from the reserve and immediately starts getting blown out of the sky. All of these fighters have decent to good experience and are flying the latest model of planes. With an air combat ratio of 22:1 for the Germans, it just doesn't seem like the air combat is being modeled accurately.

An example combat is shown below. The air combat (fighter) losses are 3:107. I just don't think it's realistic to achieve such a high win ratio in such a situation. I also think it's unrealistic that the soviet fighters would not find any kills onto enemy bombers. I think the model of an 'air superiority' dogfight followed by fighters diving on bombers is fundamentally flawed. I would like to see the model become much more dynamic.

And then there's the separate issue of 5% of my bombers falling out of the sky for no (apparent) reason.

Really, the loss rate for ME-210's this fight is more like 10%. Flying out of a level 3 airbase. Less than half their max range. Air base supply was 20/30, so I guess 10% of my planes deserve to fall out of the sky. With a 40 plane ME-210 fleet, 10% ops loss rate, and production of 5 per week, I can only fly these air groups once per week at a sustainable rate. This doesn't even count any flak or combat losses they may incur.

[jubjub]

I will say, I've figured out how to reduce ops losses on GA and other missions. Air superiority is fine if you can use drop tanks. Ground support is the only one that feels truly broken.