DAR as NVA: Battle of LZ Albany 11/17/1965 (No peeking Big Ivan!)

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: devoncop

Just wondering...is it more effective to launch two separate assaults from two different directions ( maybe using one or more units from different hexes each time ) or better to throw everything you have available in all adjoining hexes to the enemy at him in one big attack ?

To "dumb down" the Enhanced Assault logic, here's how I typically approach it:

[*] Try to reduce the unit(s) defending there. Defender Morale is key here, so kills, disruptions, morale losses, they all can be an outcome if you have been able to pound the hex first with your air, indirect, direct fire units, what ever available.
[*] Then, you would be basically looking for an assault where you can assault the hex from opposite sides, or at least from multiple sides. There's an advantage to that.
[*] As for multiple assaults, yes, I would go for two or more assaults with decent odds rather than for one with really good odds. There's the chance defender Morale dropping, assault by assault, until they collapse.

Optimally, you would be able to assault even twice per assaulting unit, but for instance the assault I did this turn took 51 Action Points to execute (movement factors to assaulted hex, then the assault cost). Annoyingly, just one assault then.

I would have risked it with another if available, even if that would have meant I am stuck with an overstacked hex again...

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: carll11

OK- first the US regt. had orders to move ON and slightly ahead of the map locale you have marked as 10 VPs.So Ivan got to pick a decent def. position he shouldn't have been able to until his forward Co. got chewed up ( compliments Larry Gwin, author of 'Baptism' a memoir of Vietnam, who was there ( as a captain) at the fight for LZ Albany). My point is, does the US even if they do survive, suffer a penalty ( aside from the enemy getting points) for not occupying that VP hex? Are there any others forward of that VP hex, cant tell.

OK so the effects of US arty? Accuracy ? Not much mention of that...Airstrikes?

Sorry, I will try to be more specific come next turn as what the US arty (there's been a lot of that so far) and airstrikes (none so far I think) will do.

As whether US would get a penalty losing LZ Albany, I would not know, I am not sure Big Ivan knows either? It would be on his side specific Scenario Briefing, go have a look there. Just don't tell me here what it was [:'(]

[devoncop]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

ORIGINAL: devoncop

Just wondering...is it more effective to launch two separate assaults from two different directions ( maybe using one or more units from different hexes each time ) or better to throw everything you have available in all adjoining hexes to the enemy at him in one big attack ?

To "dumb down" the Enhanced Assault logic, here's how I typically approach it:

[*] Try to reduce the unit(s) defending there. Defender Morale is key here, so kills, disruptions, morale losses, they all can be an outcome if you have been able to pound the hex first with your air, indirect, direct fire units, what ever available.
[*] Then, you would be basically looking for an assault where you can assault the hex from opposite sides, or at least from multiple sides. There's an advantage to that.
[*] As for multiple assaults, yes, I would go for two or more assaults with decent odds rather than for one with really good odds. There's the chance defender Morale dropping, assault by assault, until they collapse.

Optimally, you would be able to assault even twice per assaulting unit, but for instance the assault I did this turn took 51 Action Points to execute (movement factors to assaulted hex, then the assault cost). Annoyingly, just one assault then.

I would have risked it with another if available, even if that would have meant I am stuck with an overstacked hex again...

That is really helpful. So morale as much as SP is crucial.

[Crossroads]

Well here's hoping I can do a textbook assault on them later in this battle! He's doing his best to have my units Disrupted and not assault-capable, of course [8D]

[devoncop]

Can't complain about the historical accuracy of that problem 🙂

Just remember that historically technology lost to determination !

[Crossroads]

Ha, you're right of course. I might have overthought this one, maybe I should have just ordered everyone to fix their bayonets and to run at'em from word go [:'(]

Intense little scenario for sure!

[Jason Petho]

Just wondering...is it more effective to launch two separate assaults from two different directions ( maybe using one or more units from different hexes each time ) or better to throw everything you have available in all adjoining hexes to the enemy at him in one big attack ?

Assaulting from multiple directions will give you bonuses. Either as a flanking assault or a surrounding assault, depending on from which hexes you're assaulting.

Watch the Ap Bac playthrough for more understanding on how to assault.

[devoncop]

Hi Jason

Yes I saw that... my question was rather is it better to make multiple assaults from two or three different directions as you were trying at Ap Bac or use all the units that are capable of assaulting in a single all in assault (but still from multiple directions).

From what Crossroads suggests it may be better to split the assaults as a way of wearing down morale.

[Jason Petho]

Ah yes, that is correct

Multiple assaults will wear down the morale... but will cause some more casualties. So it's a trade off.

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: devoncop

Can't complain about the historical accuracy of that problem 🙂

Just remember that historically technology lost to determination !

No it did not, the Tet Offensive wiped out the Viet Cong and after that it was down hill for the North.

[Crossroads]

NVA Turn #7 of 12

Bling, says the email, another turn from Big Ivan just arrived!

Here's the replay, dang, two Artillery batteries spot on target, direct fire, he is doing a really good job keeping my key units disrupted!

Oh, there's the dreaded gunships, too, just visible in battle replay. Two scouts, then two, three gunships? This is not getting any easier!

Two strength points lost. Could have been worse. If not for the disruptions. He's doing a good job pinning me down!

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

Well here's hoping I can do a textbook assault on them later in this battle! He's doing his best to have my units Disrupted and not assault-capable, of course [8D]

Latter, check! Former, well, as long's there life there's hope!

EDIT: File attachment issue solved, here we go then!

[devoncop]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

ORIGINAL: devoncop

Can't complain about the historical accuracy of that problem 🙂

Just remember that historically technology lost to determination !

No it did not, the Tet Offensive wiped out the Viet Cong and after that it was down hill for the North.

An interesting perspective .....[X(]

More US servicemen were killed in 1969 than in 1967 (over 11700) so the VC were remarkably effective in 1969 given your claim they had been " wiped out in 1968.

I do agree that Tet was a military defeat for the VC though....but a big propaganda success of course.

[Twotribes]

The supposed Viet Cong after Tet were all NV regulars slipped in from loas and Cambodia. South Viet Nam never fell to insurgency it was over run by a conventional army attack 25 NV divisions to 12 South Vietnam Divisions.

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

EDIT: File attachment issue solved, here we go then!

Okies, I made some notes, and it was just yesterday, so maybe I can still remember something that went on!

With replay done, and the friendly Artillery phase observed - it all hit their plotted destinations - time to move on again. Where I can, that is. John's doing a very good job at keeping me pinned, but it's not all Disruption here.

With Concealment die rolls done, I have now a better view of his position on top of that small ridge there. Commander, and a Rifle platoon. IIRC. Or maybe it was a Recon section.

Moving to Ridge top myself, I soften that position first with Fire Support units, then move some Rifle Platoons there, too.

Having considered my options, with Ridgetop being perhaps the softer target, I decide to go at his main defensive position securing the Objective. Commander, two Rifle platoons, one Recon section. Slightly overstacked, maybe, although John's likely looked at his casualties there and is keeping a max of 12 Strength Points there.

Assault! Not enough power, I take two step losses, let us wait for end of turn to look at their butcher's bill, too.

With that, I am a bit better spread out, to move forward again come next turn.

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

With that, I am a bit better spread out, to move forward again come next turn.

Here's the situation at end of play Turn #7 for the North Vietnamese Army side. I feel the tide is slowly turning for the US player, especially as he now has his gunships there to support him too.

Hey, I signed for LZ Albany, this is turning into LZ X-Ray! [:D]

I've still taken more US strength out than what I've lost so far, so there's that. Four friendly steps lost, two hostile ones taken out, though. Let us see if I can hang in for a result here!

Plotted my indirect fire missions, just one 60mm battery available this time around. That's it, file sent.

Here's a little doodle for the next turn to remind me to try to spread out a bit more. Lots to play here, still!

[devoncop]

Heck of a scrap going on there....

You dont have any AA guns by any chance do you ?

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: devoncop

Heck of a scrap going on there....

You dont have any AA guns by any chance do you ?

I have MMGs which can do AA as well. That's it, though. Just need to save Action Points for Opportunity Fire against Helicopters. I did set up my Opportunity Fire parameters to allow for this in the beginning, I think. Have to doublecheck!

[Crossroads]

NVA Turn #8 of 12

So, with not a little trepidation, I watched the US replay for their phase for Turn #8.

Sure enough, Artillery, spot on again. Btw, the high standard of US artillery is modelled in their Adaptive AI parameters, much less chances for fire missions drifting. Then, the actual replay of their turn, with movement, direct fire, etc.

Stop. No Close Air Support missions this time around either. I must have fallen for some bad intel in the beginning! At least I am replaying my role as a shaken NVA commander after how it played out just previously at LZ X-RAY. "We Were Soldiers" and the terrific battle scene there has been on my mind the whole time. OK. That's a relief. I think. I would not assume they'd been saving their CAS for so long? Surely not?

Not that the replay was any pleasure to watch, either. Hogs appeared, after the recce helos slipped in first, did their damage. I had saved a couple of MMG missions to them but no hits. They certainly hit me.

Here's the situation after replay:

[*] Bad news: they scored another 100 Event Points, likely for again holding LZ Albany objective for four consecutive turns. That is hurting me badly, I am not filling my mission here.
[*] Good news: all my Disrupted units recovered. They are getting angry! I can hit back better now.

By the way, I switched to Unit Images on Counters option for a change. I have a good idea what's out there, I don't need the NATO symbol intel that badly now.

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

Good news: all my Disrupted units recovered. They are getting angry! I can hit back better now.

So let us spend a bit more time here. The plan was to spread out more come this turn, so starting with the western edge, let us start to threaten LZ Albany, again. I have two units there, a SP3 (three strength points) Rifle platoon, and a SP6 Rifle platoon.

Expecting Op Fire, I moved the weaker one in first. Not a shot. Are they spent? Did they not see such a small unit approaching? More SPs in a hex, more likely they are seen.

And true enough, I move my SP6 platoon there, they are op fired, resulting in a Retreat. Rats.

Interestingly enough, as their Op Fire revealed the defending unit, I fired at it with the remaining SP3 platoon, and the US unit there scored a Retreat dieroll!

I got some Op Fire back from the adjacent hex, with no results. So another unit there. But: is the objective now empty? Let us try to find out!

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

But: is the objective now empty? Let us try to find out!

First, let us toggle Movement Range = ON (see the "Range" toolbar icon group there) and see where we're at. Great, I can move there even without doubletiming anyone. From two hexes, even!

So here's the plan: First, ensure the US stack I have had problems for several turns now is out of Op Fire. So let us fire at it from the adjacent hexes a good few times. Then, let us move out from the two hexes into the Objective (if empty!). Only possible, if the defending stack is out of Op Fire. Gamey? No, this is how suppressing fire works at this level. Pin them down first, they do want to respond to that, then move out with other units.

Firing at them, then moving more units to fire at them, I get Op Fire back, no effect. As usual per Fog of War rules, I don't know if I hit him. I did cycle through all his units on that stack, though.

Finally, charge!

... and the "empty" hex fires back. Opportunity fire. There's someone there, I just don't see him. Rats+1!

Oh well, it sure got interesting for a bit!