Greatest Generals of All Time

Heinkel · Post by **Heinkel** » Mon Oct 15, 2001 3:33 pm

How could be:
Ernst Ruben Lagus, commander of 1st jaeger brigade and commander of armour bataillon Lagus, that got it´s first battle experience on Tuulosjoki,sept.4. 1941

Vilho Petter Nenonen,also Finnish <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> artillery general, who developed artillery techniques scientifically as well as technically.

www.mannerheim.fi/tori_e/sivukart.htm
don´t be afraid...it´s in english.

mammoth_9 · Post by **mammoth_9** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 3:03 pm

hello

this is my first time and i would humbly add:

Yue Fei, Song Dynasty, who almost threw out the Mongols from China until betrayed by politicians (isn't that usually the case)

Henry Gurney and Gerald Templar, (the former was assasinated, or was it the latter ?) for what i believe to be the only successfull defeat of a communist insurgency

toundra · Post by **toundra** » Thu Nov 29, 2001 6:39 pm

3 Of the best French generals are missing =/

Duguesclin

http://duguesclin.free.fr/page7.html

Davout

http://perso.club-internet.fr/ameliefr/Davout.html

Charlemagne

http://membres.tripod.fr/~apsall/Histoire/800_1000.htm

Oh and of course one of the very best
General Leclerc.

BTW don't mention US Civil war Generals among the best, because they are certainly the worse...
The use of Napoleonic tactics with modern weapons give the result we know...

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: toundra ]

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: toundra ]</p>

achappelle · Post by **achappelle** » Thu Nov 29, 2001 10:13 pm

If I may humbly add Alchibades the Athenian general of the Pelopenesian War. Gotta Love a guy who whips one side's ass, then gets kicked out of his own city, joins his former enemies and kicks even more butt. Victim of his own pride and bad choice of friends(Polemides)

achappelle · Post by **achappelle** » Thu Nov 29, 2001 10:20 pm

Also, in the classic general vein, Leonidas of the Spartans. Obviously his stand at Thermopylae is legendary, but he was in his sixties by then and had been campaigning, and winning for almost fifty years.

appunk · Post by **appunk** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 8:51 pm

Originally posted by toundra:
3 Of the best French generals are missing =/

How can you forget the latest but greatest of Napoleon's marshals???

Suchet!!

Had he been in command over all of spain instead of just catalonia...

Oberbefehlshaber · Post by **Oberbefehlshaber** » Sun Dec 02, 2001 6:52 am

My two cents...

How can anyone forget Ulysses Grant and William Tecumseh Sherman.....

In fact Shermans method of making war would be very "socially acceptable" today.

Hermann Balck - consistently the most overlooked German General of WW2 ...

Zhukov, Chuikov (for Stalingrad), Rokossovsky for the Soviets...

LeClerc is NOT even close to being one of the best French Generals...that is an outrage! He walks into Paris and is a great general of all time??? NOT.

Joss

Yabunchanatsies · Post by **Yabunchanatsies** » Sun Dec 02, 2001 4:33 pm

Without a doubt, an English plantation owner, name of George Washington.

His campaign in New York was amazing. He was beaten time and time again, wound up leaving, making a crossing into New Jersey and encamping his beaten army on the other side of a ridge the British were on the other side of, he wound up with interior lines that his troops could easily respond to a British army which, normally could outmaneuver his, with it's navy. But twas winter approaching and the British had to go bye byes and retrograded toward (Philadelphia?? or Boston).

How a general can take a series of defeats, with a thoroughly unproffessional force, while maeuvering for victory, as that guy did, just floors me. He is like a Chess master who trades his rooks and bishops for two pawns and wins the game because of some exotic trap involving a USUALLY disastrous exchange.

Washington was brilliant, simply brilliant.

toundra · Post by **toundra** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 4:41 pm

About Leclerc
He is a PURE tactician and certainly one of the very best, if you don't believe me read more about him.
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/stephane.delogu/leclerc44.html

sorry i have nothing in english =/

And now about Davout this is almost the same answer, he is an elite tactician too.
His victory over the prussian guards is simply awesome (auerstadt) (sp)

GuntherX · Post by **GuntherX** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 9:57 pm

What about air Generals. Adolf Galland comes to mind.

Blackhorse · Post by **Blackhorse** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 2:57 am

Allow me to second the nomination of von Moltke (the elder).

He orchestrated the Prussian invasion and defeat of Austria in six weeks in 1866. In 1870, he organized the Prussian victory over France, defeating France's field armies in about two months' time.

These rapid victories ocurred despite the use of the same weapons that made much of the American Civil War a war of attrition. Nor did the Prussians have a technological edge: in the Austrian war, the Austrians had better-quality artillery to offset the Prussian advantage in small arms (the breechloading "needle-gun"). In the French war, the Prussians fielded better artillery, but the French chassepot rifle was superior to the "needle-gun," and the French fielded batteries of mittraleuse (sp?) machine guns, against which the Prussians had no counterpart.

Blackhorse · Post by **Blackhorse** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 3:11 am

Originally posted by toundra:

BTW don't mention US Civil war Generals among the best, because they are certainly the worse...
The use of Napoleonic tactics with modern weapons give the result we know...[/QB]

Actually, U.S. Civil War Generals are due some deferrence, since they had to discover the effects of these "modern" weapons as they went along. The best of them (Lee, Jackson, Forrest; Grant, Sherman, Sheridan, Thomas) developed effective new strategies or tactics.

The "worst" generals would be those English, French, and German commanders who were still using Napoleonic tactics during World War I -- 50 years after the American Civil War had demonstrated their folly.

toundra · Post by **toundra** » Mon Dec 10, 2001 4:06 pm

Originally posted by Blackhorse:

The "worst" generals would be those English, French, and German commanders who were still using Napoleonic tactics during World War I -- 50 years after the American Civil War had demonstrated their folly.

Hehe yes very true =/

(Mitrailleuse)

Fredde · Post by **Fredde** » Mon Dec 10, 2001 4:23 pm

Hjalmar Siilasvuo, with weak Finnish troops holding, encircling and finally crushing two Russian divisions in the Suomossalmi area. This with extremely little air support, hardly any heavy weapons and facing a well-equipped tank-using Russian army. Isn't that a hero... !

Mannerheim.. for both Winter War and the Continuation War. Only two major Russian offensives that was halted in 1944 were both directed against Finland. Afterwards, he ended by throwing out the Germans as well.. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Controversial perhaps.. good old Monty. Not as glorious and reputation-seeking as Patton, but one who really really knew his work. Excellent historian, slow and methodical approach, keeping to his own tactics and believing in it. What did he do? Stopping Rommel and throwing him out of Africa. Invade Italy successfully, after a very hard political battle to have plans after his own mind.. and they were successful. He went on directing the Overlord landing as well.. and of course, made it successful. His worst failure came when he for once abandoned his own tactics in Market-Garden.. but i forgive him <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> Another often forgotten Brit in WWII is Alan Brooke.. keeping the ties together, fighting Germany all alone.

Wallenstein. Should he really be on that list? Despite loads of money and resources he was not successful.

When it comes to the Swedes. Gustav II Adolf was a good man yes.. but as military leaders I would rather push forward Karl X, Karl XI and Karl XII. All of them genious in their own way.. Karl XII, despite losing, putting Sweden on the same list as Napoleon.. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> Before that he did miracles with extremely limited resources.

JC · Post by JC » Tue Dec 11, 2001 1:30 pm

And what about all these generals of the French Revolutionary Armies : Jourdan, Marceau, Kleber...etc... Building the bases of the Empire against all odds and overshadowed by another General(Bonaparte)later on in history ?

JTGEN · Post by **JTGEN** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 7:48 pm

I would put Siilasvuo in front of Mannerheim too, on the finnish side. And Nenonen sure was a great artillery general, job where few can make a name for themselves. But wasnt Napoleon artillery man originally?

Good question would be also if the guy who led the south american independence battles. Name does not come to mind. Did he lead the troops in battle. And who on the english side came up with the use of longbows against french knights. That was revolutionary.

toundra · Post by **toundra** » Wed Dec 19, 2001 6:16 pm

Edward, prince of Wales, known as the Black Prince.
We have been beaten by Welsh archers and not by the brits <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Yes i know i am an hypocrite =P

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Wed Dec 19, 2001 11:55 pm

Wasn't it Simon Bolivar in South America?

Fredde · Post by **Fredde** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 2:14 am

Hmm.. just saw that I forgot to mention another thing about Siilasvuo. He did just about the same in the Kuhmo area after the Suomussalmi battle. Not as well known and reputatious as the Raate road battle, but also a great achievement.

For those of us who know Swedish or Finnish, there are two books to read written by Silasvuo himself (have no clue if they have been translated to other languages). Take the chance to get to know this part of history.. extremely interesting.

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: Fredde ]</p>

JTGEN · Post by **JTGEN** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 9:18 pm

Thanks Drex, Bolivar is the man. My name memory sucks and I could not remember it.

And thanks Toundra. Those bows sure were a revolution, and the french did get slaughtered at Crezy(sp).