Grand Campaign --- Q-Ball vs Sertorius21

[Wiedrock]

As Sertorius said, we also opened a larger push around Smolensk....this was more of a serious push I had planned, but not THE main event. He has back-up units and defenses everywhere, so limits any breakthroughs. As you can see, even successful attacks had really high loss ratios; this is kind of a pyrric victory, as we had to overcome the RESERVE activation of a Motorized Division:

This looks like the basic Soviet prestige attack into Urban terrain without advancing Snolenks's outskirts first.

The Vatutin attack has good losses imo. Only followup attacks can improve that.

it's GUNS. Except for Light Artillery, all the ACTIVE pools for important artillery types, including Mortars, AT Guns, Artillery, Heavy Artillery, are EMPTY. Not all Rifle Divisions have a full complement of Mortars and Artillery. Of course I have enough for "attack" units, but this is a problem......I'm especially surprised by the lack of AT Guns, despite disbanding nearly all my independent AT units

...with the missing small AT guns you rly created a mystery. Any idea how the "Transit Pools" look/looked? Maybe it's just an accounting issue/bug and you have/had thoudsands upon in Transit.

[Sertorius21]

The attack shown was not on Smolensk itself, just on the hex to the east. I had not withdrawn to the city itself so I could continue to use the rail freely until the forward position was overrun.

This offensive was fairly big as Q-Ball indicated. Just on the first turn, I counted no less than 8 Guards corps engaged in 5 attacks. A large array of infantry corps, Guards cavalry corps and mechanised or tank units took part.

This proved to be costly indeed for the Russians, as an initial assault just south of Smolensk was repulsed with odds around 1:1, after an infantry and a motorised divisions reacted. 20,000 men were lost in that failed attempt and the next one on the same hex scrapped just above the 2x bar. The other 3 attacks were more comfortable although still in mid-single digit odds. As I had depleted the defence in this area by a couple of infantry divisions, the initial miscarriage did not turn out to be catastrophic for the Russian offensive. The Pz divisions were not placed in reserve as I preferred to counter attack, which was duly done on one Russian stack. The line was then withdrawn to a second set of level 3 fortifications.

Besides the sheer weight of the onslaught, three leaders showed that this was a serious effort: Vassilevski, Zhukov and Rokossovsky. So more troops started to be railed from Army Group South. 6 Pz arrived from Staraya Russa where its presence was no longer critical, with most of the fighting in marsh terrain. While the ratio of losses was in German favour, several units had seen their combat worthiness badly reduced (combination of losses, CPPs, fatigue and to some extent supply consumed), so not exactly a comfortable situation.



The HQ and the units belonging to 3 PzG are clearly visible. What may prove puzzling is the light blue for units scattered at the top and the bottom of this picture. These are essentially corps attaching to Army Group Centre, as there were not enough Army HQs at this point, hence some corps were semi-independent to avoid overload at army level.

[Wiedrock]

The attack shown was not on Smolensk itself, just on the hex to the east. I had not withdrawn to the city itself so I could continue to use the rail freely until the forward position was overrun.

Oof, thought this was Q making a Soviet Smolensk LARP into the City itself....men, losing 11k KIA with only 3 German Artillery SUs is grim.

[Sertorius21]

Not his style... I let him comment but whenever he can decimate the weak allies, he puts his efforts into that. The LW field divisions do not fare much better, even at full strength in second line, in a forest and with a level 1 fortification.

Now on to the following turns. The area west of Orsha started to become a crowded place, with Smolensk a salient that would prove difficult to defend in the long run. There were periods of regrouping with only a couple of attacks in this sector (the grinding continued between VL and Staraya Russa though). At this stage attrition was still in the German's favour with all Russian attacks against level 3 fortifications.

View at the end of German turn 80 (December 27th)




Otto Wöhler is supposed to be a strong leader and was provided with a lot of artillery and LW support units. This didn't work out perfectly but there was a strong price to pay for sending three mechanised units in the gap, that were instantly counterattacked by Hube with the Pz reserve.




I started to take a few more pictures of the overall losses so here is before the German turn.

[Sertorius21]

I said that all my defence in the sector rested on level 3 fortifications... Not quite as one marsh hex, occupied above by 297 ID, was initially behind the front and at level 1. As soon as the Russians came next to it, engineers were attached. Although I had not hesitated to maximise both direct and, through corps attachments, indirect support, this was not sufficient to bring fortifications to level 2 and Zhukov took care of expelling this division from the strong anchor of the marshes. For the sake of saving 4 APs in previous turns, I had made quite a mistake because the ground is devoid of any natural cover outside of this hex.

The 297 ID came back in the hex, as well as the fresh 81 ID. Meanwhile, large Russian stacks took position into the gaps in my line. They were both thrown back with heavy losses.




These counterattacks involved virtually all the armour in the sector, so although the units were initially close to full CPP and supply, I wondered how many more penetrations would have to be sealed.




The two divisions in the marshes were brushed aside as the commanders of VIII and XXIII corps did not provide enough support to make it a challenge. Even if they had contributed more artillery, the odds were such that it would have been an automatic victory for the Russians. You will note the far more balanced losses.

[Sertorius21]

I indicated that grinding continued to take place further north. Indeed Vatutin carried his one man show, inflicting losses and improving the experience of a number of brigades.




At some point, I tried to send in two divisions of which one completely fresh, with massive artillery support available to strong commanders with at least 7 in both morale and initiative, and this attempt failed.

By mid-January, only a couple of attacks were taking place each turn. The SS divisions were starting to arrive, giving a bit more comfort in areas that were not secure enough. A couple of infantry divisions were also sent behind Gomel as the line lacked depth and the Hungarians were deployed there alongside a number of corseting German divisions.

[Q-Ball]

it's GUNS. Except for Light Artillery, all the ACTIVE pools for important artillery types, including Mortars, AT Guns, Artillery, Heavy Artillery, are EMPTY. Not all Rifle Divisions have a full complement of Mortars and Artillery. Of course I have enough for "attack" units, but this is a problem......I'm especially surprised by the lack of AT Guns, despite disbanding nearly all my independent AT units

...with the missing small AT guns you rly created a mystery. Any idea how the "Transit Pools" look/looked? Maybe it's just an accounting issue/bug and you have/had thoudsands upon in Transit.

A bit of a detour from the AAR, but I'll comment on this for posterity....hopefully Sertorius doesn't take advantage, though I don't know how he could.

I'll use the 45mm M37 AT Gun as an example, and AT Guns in general. As of 3/14/43, The ACTIVE pool for all types is Zero, 100% empty.

I do have 19,200 of the M37 deployed to units; generally, units have "most" of the AT slots filled. There are additionally 2,154 in the TRANSIT pool, so eventually I'll get those; all Gun types have a fair number in the TRANSIT pool, what I really need is a few turns of inactivity (which is coming up shortly, so that should help) to clear some of that out.

The total number tracks; Red Army starts with roughly 13,500 M37s, and I've produced 29,120, for a total of 42,600

I currently have 19,200 in units, + 2154 in pool. I have lost just short of 22,000. That's not exactly 42,600, but the difference is probably a few reinforcements that come with AT guns.

All the gun types generally track this way, which is why a) I have to be aware of gun losses, and b) that is one of the limiting factors right now on new units build. I will confirm everything is short except LIGHT ARTILLERY (plenty of 76mm Field Guns in pools).

I will say the only devices that are so short that slots are empty all over the place are Infantry Guns, and AAMG, both of which aren't that important. (.....and SU-76 Lt. Tank Destroyers, but when production of the SU-76M starts that problem will be instantly solved)

Hope that helps!

[Q-Ball]

Smolensk Operation:

By end of December, we had made some progress on the ground South of Smolensk, despite the losses. Here you can see the starting line was roughly in RED, with current progress. By this time I had hoped to divert most of the German reserves and attention, and it was pretty much a slog.....

12-27-42SmolenskGains.jpg (242.44 KiB) Viewed 602 times

Gomel/Kiev Operation:

My plan was that this would be the main event in the Winter; an attack Southwest into the Pripet marshes in the Gomel/Kiev sector. This sector was defended in large part by Hungarians, which also made it attractive.

Starting in November, I started shifting large forces behind the front in this sector, and hoping the weather would keep it secret. Ultimately, I had something like 6-8 Guards Tank Corps, 6-8 Cav Corps (mostly Guards), and a couple dozen Guards Rifle Corps, plus supporting Guards Airborne, Mountain, and other Rifle units. 2 entire Fronts (Central and Bryansk) were set to ASSAULT status, with other fronts supporting......probably 2 million men were concentrated in this sector. I had shifted the NKPS Rail Corps there in advance to build-up a supply stockpile. Of course, most of the Rocket Brigades also here. So lots of stuff!!!!

The objectives, besides wins to make GUARDS units, was to push over the Dnepr here, and provide a thorn in the side of the Germans into Summer. Swampy terrain would make it difficult to push me back out. Not sure we can exploit this in summer, but at least it's there in the next winter.

Unfortunately, Sertorius figured out something on 1/10/43, because suddenly I saw a few reinforcements at the front. He admitted later that he thought something was up! That forced me to launch about 2 turns early, but still got a good result in the initial attacks and advance; if you look carefully, you can particularly see 3 German divisions around Gomel in real trouble:

1-17-43Venus1.jpg (941.13 KiB) Viewed 602 times

As you can see, it's chaos at the front, which is what I was going for. Here is a closeup on a key attack that allowed a breakthrough near Gomel; Batov's 51st Army with the breakthough. Note all the MECH BRIGADES along for the ride; I was farming wins for those units (they later made Guards, and were combined to make Guards Mech Corps....this is the best way IMO to get Guards, is to use Brigade SUs to farm wins)

1-17-43Venus2.jpg (629.31 KiB) Viewed 602 times

And so it begins!

[Q-Ball]

Guards Formation

Fast-forward ahead a bit, and I'll show current Guards status.

In all of 1942/43, I've been focused on Farming Guards. I've found it's fairly hard to do that with on-map units; Cavalry is easier, since they have more mobility, but trying to farm guards from Rifle Divisions or Tanks Corps is difficult. I didn't really try on those units.

I relied almost 100% on SU Attachments; I have Rifle Brigades attached in every win, even if they aren't needed for the Combat Result, just to log a "win". Once they hit GUARDS status, I move them to Stavka, combine 2 Brigades into a Division, then combine divisions into Guards Rifle Corps. At this point, in March 1943, I have 38 Guards Rifle Corps. I am also almost out of Rifle Brigades; I only have about 6-8 left! (Plenty of Naval Brigades, but they can't be Guards).

Same motion with TANK BRIGADES, though I had to wait until 11/42 to combine what was then a stockpile of Guards Tank Brigades into Guards Tank Corps (I now have 9 of those). By focusing on Guards Tank Corps, however, there's a price to pay; I only have 4 Guards Separate Tank Regts. The only other Guards SUs are all the Heavy Tank Regts, which are Auto-Guards.

Here are the GUARDS status:

Guards.jpg (31.6 KiB) Viewed 598 times

You can see that:
1. I am now capped-out on ARMOR at 35%; can't make any more of those
2. MECH I have some room, but this is slow-going. I should have made more MOTORIZED Brigades earlier, as they can be used for Mech OR Tank units, and have their own CAP
3. INFANTRY is at 18%, with a current cap of 25%; not sure if I'll Cap-out or not, but I will need to build more RIFLE Brigades if I want to increase that number
4. CAVALRY is 55%, but in reality, I only have 1 Cav Corps left that is NOT Guards; the rest are Divisions, which aren't really assault units in my mind
5. ARTILLERY is 18% and could use some work, but it's harder to massage wins there

Anyway, appreciate your thoughts on Guards creation, but I think SUs are the best way

The process of Guards Creation is winding down, as I am approaching cap and other limits, so soon focus will shift to just beating up on Germans

[tm1]

Guards Formation

Fast-forward ahead a bit, and I'll show current Guards status.

In all of 1942/43, I've been focused on Farming Guards. I've found it's fairly hard to do that with on-map units; Cavalry is easier, since they have more mobility, but trying to farm guards from Rifle Divisions or Tanks Corps is difficult. I didn't really try on those units.

I relied almost 100% on SU Attachments; I have Rifle Brigades attached in every win, even if they aren't needed for the Combat Result, just to log a "win". Once they hit GUARDS status, I move them to Stavka, combine 2 Brigades into a Division, then combine divisions into Guards Rifle Corps. At this point, in March 1943, I have 38 Guards Rifle Corps. I am also almost out of Rifle Brigades; I only have about 6-8 left! (Plenty of Naval Brigades, but they can't be Guards).

Same motion with TANK BRIGADES, though I had to wait until 11/42 to combine what was then a stockpile of Guards Tank Brigades into Guards Tank Corps (I now have 9 of those). By focusing on Guards Tank Corps, however, there's a price to pay; I only have 4 Guards Separate Tank Regts. The only other Guards SUs are all the Heavy Tank Regts, which are Auto-Guards.

Here are the GUARDS status:
Guards.jpg

You can see that:
1. I am now capped-out on ARMOR at 35%; can't make any more of those
2. MECH I have some room, but this is slow-going. I should have made more MOTORIZED Brigades earlier, as they can be used for Mech OR Tank units, and have their own CAP
3. INFANTRY is at 18%, with a current cap of 25%; not sure if I'll Cap-out or not, but I will need to build more RIFLE Brigades if I want to increase that number
4. CAVALRY is 55%, but in reality, I only have 1 Cav Corps left that is NOT Guards; the rest are Divisions, which aren't really assault units in my mind
5. ARTILLERY is 18% and could use some work, but it's harder to massage wins there

Anyway, appreciate your thoughts on Guards creation, but I think SUs are the best way

The process of Guards Creation is winding down, as I am approaching cap and other limits, so soon focus will shift to just beating up on Germans

Hi
I cant speak for Guards creation being an Axis player but I will say that's a lot of Guards units you have and your opponent has his work cut out for him, even if he was to create multiple pockets with half your Guards units trapped, the pockets held and he destroyed them your at Smolensk and you appear in a position to push him out of Belorussia in the summer of 1943, visions of a Operation Bagration in 1943 flash before my eyes.

Two things I would be interested in seeing is the current OOB as you must have over 6 million men at arms at least, the other would be seeing a strategic map of how far your opponent advanced into Russia, his furthermost limit on the front line.
Good luck to both of you

[Sertorius21]

Guards Formation

Fast-forward ahead a bit, and I'll show current Guards status.

In all of 1942/43, I've been focused on Farming Guards. I've found it's fairly hard to do that with on-map units; Cavalry is easier, since they have more mobility, but trying to farm guards from Rifle Divisions or Tanks Corps is difficult. I didn't really try on those units.

I relied almost 100% on SU Attachments; I have Rifle Brigades attached in every win, even if they aren't needed for the Combat Result, just to log a "win". Once they hit GUARDS status, I move them to Stavka, combine 2 Brigades into a Division, then combine divisions into Guards Rifle Corps. At this point, in March 1943, I have 38 Guards Rifle Corps. I am also almost out of Rifle Brigades; I only have about 6-8 left! (Plenty of Naval Brigades, but they can't be Guards).

Same motion with TANK BRIGADES, though I had to wait until 11/42 to combine what was then a stockpile of Guards Tank Brigades into Guards Tank Corps (I now have 9 of those). By focusing on Guards Tank Corps, however, there's a price to pay; I only have 4 Guards Separate Tank Regts. The only other Guards SUs are all the Heavy Tank Regts, which are Auto-Guards.

Here are the GUARDS status:
Guards.jpg

You can see that:
1. I am now capped-out on ARMOR at 35%; can't make any more of those
2. MECH I have some room, but this is slow-going. I should have made more MOTORIZED Brigades earlier, as they can be used for Mech OR Tank units, and have their own CAP
3. INFANTRY is at 18%, with a current cap of 25%; not sure if I'll Cap-out or not, but I will need to build more RIFLE Brigades if I want to increase that number
4. CAVALRY is 55%, but in reality, I only have 1 Cav Corps left that is NOT Guards; the rest are Divisions, which aren't really assault units in my mind
5. ARTILLERY is 18% and could use some work, but it's harder to massage wins there

Anyway, appreciate your thoughts on Guards creation, but I think SUs are the best way

The process of Guards Creation is winding down, as I am approaching cap and other limits, so soon focus will shift to just beating up on Germans

Hi
I cant speak for Guards creation being an Axis player but I will say that's a lot of Guards units you have and your opponent has his work cut out for him, even if he was to create multiple pockets with half your Guards units trapped, the pockets held and he destroyed them your at Smolensk and you appear in a position to push him out of Belorussia in the summer of 1943, visions of a Operation Bagration in 1943 flash before my eyes.

Two things I would be interested in seeing is the current OOB as you must have over 6 million men at arms at least, the other would be seeing a strategic map of how far your opponent advanced into Russia, his furthermost limit on the front line.
Good luck to both of you

We will provide a few indications of the relative forces but I can already confirm the furthermost limit of my advance, in November 1941: a line 2 hexes from Leningrad - Novgorod (hence failing to take this city), then Staraya Russa, Velikye Luki, Vyazma, Orel (for 3 or 4 turns only!), Kursk (for 2 turn...), Belgorod, Kharkov, Stalino, Taganrog. A lot of territory was lost in the first winter, which was a boon for Q-Ball in terms of manpower. A compounding disaster was my decision to merge 3 German and 3 Rumanian divisions, which would have helped so much during the summer campaign and in the current winter.

[Sertorius21]

Unfortunately, Sertorius figured out something on 1/10/43, because suddenly I saw a few reinforcements at the front. He admitted later that he thought something was up! That forced me to launch about 2 turns early, but still got a good result in the initial attacks and advance; if you look carefully, you can particularly see 3 German divisions around Gomel in real trouble

I had the feeling that something would happen although not that big nor that broad. I had always considered this area to be weak and started to bring a few elements very slowly. My alarm bells ran higher as I saw infantry corps discreetly taking the line in lieu of divisions. On top of the two German divisions that were earmarked for the rear Gomel area and were already on the rail, hence arrived just before the storm broke out, I also shifted artillery so as to provide more firepower to the German corps on the spot. Sadly, the mis-positioning of a LW field and an ID, which should have been swapped, meant that XXXXVII PzK was thrown back and its commander, Lemelsen, Killed in this action. The consequence was twofold: the three divisions which Q-Ball mentions were isolated and one of them could be attacked relatively easily considering its level 3 fortification in a swamp. And the high command replaced Lemelsen (with a 6 rating across) with Zeitler who is not a front line commander. One of the first actions during my turn was to replace Zeitler.

[Sertorius21]

So......

After half-recovering from this nasty shock, I had to take a few decisions. Some of them were obvious, as I needed to run in a number of places. For the rest, I wanted two things:

- Contain the issue geographically, so as to stop any offensive in the Kiev - Poltava area, and only thereafter deal with the big hole in the centre. The Pz that were in reserve, as well as some of my infantry, did cause hefty losses on the advancing tide, as evidenced by the battle locations. 23Pz, here NW of Kiev, was railed from Poltava and tasked with bolstering the back door to this big city. Also attached to Rommel's XXXX PzK, the LAH, initially gathering CPPs in Kiev, cleared the northern approaches and came back after one big battle and two small overruns.

- free up the three trapped divisions, at least temporarily, in order to remain a pain for the advancing Soviets and possibly force an attack that would end in a rout: this would be better than having surrenders. Of course Q-Ball did not see it in the same way and they ended as POWs. Nevertheless you can see that there was still a fight to give them a lifeline. 502 Tiger II was instrumental in supporting a strong infantry division who attacked from outside the pocket and then half attacked the isolated Russians after this first move.



Other decisions involved the abandonment of Smolensk and the withdrawal of the Stalino line. Both help to free up divisions that were urgently railed, whereas Italian Alpini heroes prepared to do the same.

[Sertorius21]

Here is a closer look at the Mogilev - Gomel area, after removing the battle locations. Note that the new XXXXVII leader, Eibl, has an initiative rating of 8, which I considered critical to support the crumbling line or what was left of it.




Things did not look materially more promising around Kiev, with 23Pz the only strong asset on a massive stretch of the front. I would have liked to bring 3SS PzD as well but the rail priority went to infantry that would man the big hole.




Losses were obviously high for both sides.

[Q-Ball]

Jan 24, 1943

Continuing the attack in the Gomel Sector, we made some progress with 3 divisions cut-off; these would later surrender

1-24-43Attack.jpg (439.8 KiB) Viewed 345 times

However, Rommel appeared with some SS Divisions, and started to counterattack in places, with interesting results to say the least:

1-24-43Combat2.jpg (118.64 KiB) Viewed 345 times

The commitment of forces to Gomel sector was strong by the Germans to contain this activity. One benefit is that Sertorius decided to pull back from the "Kharkov Bulge"....a slow pullback to the Dnepr river, leaving Kharkov, Poltava, and the area between the Dnepr and Stalino open. I cautiously advanced into this space, but paid a couple times for sticking my neck out too much:

1-31-43screen2.jpg (407.67 KiB) Viewed 345 times

[Sertorius21]

Indeed this was one of several attacks on the advancing line of Russians, which suffered from having come next to two strong armies with 100% CPP across the board. It is worth noting that 35 and 36 XXX had been repulsed a couple of turns earlier so were deemed easy targets. Fast forward to late March, they would again be hit hard and similarly go into a rout, one of them after having been temporarily isolated.

We can see on Q-Ball's picture a number of airborne divisions, which would start to man the front line in the coming turns. As much as possible, I tried to avoid attacking them as they are far tougher nuts to crack and do not break, even at very high odds.



Meanwhile a counterattack managed to get a last lifeline to two of the trapped divisions. There was just nothing to do for Gomel and the blizzard precluded any attempt at resupply. The Russians ejected the Tridentina division from its anchor and then gently pushed back the 342 ID onto the 293 ID, so these would disappear eventually. At least they caused as much trouble as possible.

[Sertorius21]

While the situation continued to deteriorate in the Gomel area and 3-4 divisions were railed every turn, the long front in the Ukrainian steppes saw regular heavy counterattacks by armour and to some extent infantry, but this was not the only front where fighting took place. As the Russians occupied the vacated area between Vitebsk and Smolensk, an initial counter attack took place, which was to become a standard feature for 7 weeks in a row.

What happened was that I had done nothing with 1Pz before it was sent to the West and subsequently to the Balkans, leaving me fuming. So when, on turn 84, I noticed that 29 Mot would go in 5 weeks, I replaced it with an infantry division near Novgorod where it was part of the local reserve, and sent it to Vitebsk. It then attacked more or less relentlessly, first in the shaded hex with a strong force of Pz, then on other Russian forces that were relatively devoid of cover. By the time it was withdrawn, it was low on CPPs, had accumulated fatigue and was no longer near its prime. Other divisions rotated to support it and obtain high odds on a front where there didn't seem to be any strong ennemy forces.




This regular bout of action continued afterwards, including at least once against defenders in level 2 fortifications that could be ZOC'd, hence with no prospect of receiving any support. Needless to say, OKH's heavy artillery (305 and 355mm) was available to support this unusual attack. Poor quality infantry broke about half of the time, a very different experience from that of facing airborne troops.

[Sertorius21]

Before reverting back to the critical segment of the front, let's have a look at the Stalino area. The withdrawal takes place as slowly as possible, given that the Dnepr line remains under construction. The German command also wants to maximise Russian losses as the Red Army is forced to move in the open. A level of distance has to be kept to ensure that a raft of Guards corps do not suddenly land on hastily dug trenches. In the example below (turn 87), the Russian spearheads just made contact with the withdrawing Germans. Großdeutschland was very close by, alongside a number of other strong units, and an elaborate pincer movement was carried out. In hindsight, it may have been too elaborate but only one tank corps reacted and was brushed aside.

Further south, 6 Army also carries a few strikes against a generally weak line, which previous air reconnaissance had identified as shallow, hence with temporarily low risk of reaction by any strong force.




On the Stalino - Poltava section where strong Russian reserves would logically be available, I then decided to calibrate my attacks so as to offset any intervention from an infantry Guards corps, let alone cavalry of tanks.

[Sertorius21]

Meanwhile, numerous attacks were carried out N and NW of Kiev, probably looking for the back door to the Dnepr line. There were not enough strong reserves to prevent further progress by the Russians, including a critical marsh hex (NW of the 305 ID), despite the presence of an acceptably strong German division. Weak troops were also pushed out from a further marsh hex which was immediately reoccupied by 299 ID and a few Hungarians.

On this picture, Kiev was just below the 8 Rumanian cavalry division.



The Russians then continued to push and occupied the woods nearby at the same time as they rolled part of the line. Fortunately, the strike force that had been assembled under XXXX PzK was ready by mid-February and expelled 10 Guards corps with losses. There was still not enough support to reoccupy the woods in force.




You will notice the battle location closer to Kiev, which was a successful Russian attack in swamps. The 377 ID and Italians reoccupied this hex, before being thrown out again. For the next 2-3 weeks, I decided to sacrifice my Italians, that were to go anyway soon, and systematically reoccupy this marsh hex. Even with German corps and artillery support, the results were predictable but were aimed at softening the three Guards corps that constituted the main Russian assault forces, once 1 Guards corps was withdrawn (it will reappear near Melitopol). These three Guards corps never rested and were probably low of CPP and high on fatigue.

As I forgot to take a screenshot, I just mention here the subsequent events on that fight for the immediate northern approaches to Kiev. As I ran out of Italians with any staying power, several divisions and a lot of artillery had been assembled. They launched what I thought was a strong counter attack against the three guards corps in their level 1 fortification. Plenty of engineers and Tigers were obviously called to bolster the odds. The CV ratio showed something marginally higher than 2, I think I had established that there was no immediate threat of reaction by strong forces and a Soviet tank corps would be brushed away. I estimated that I would end anywhere between 4:1 and 10:1 at a stretch, on the back of the artillery support and superior leadership.

It turned out to be a very close shave, at final odds of 2.2:1, with over 3,000 losses for the attacker and 5,000+ for the defender who lost almost nothing in the retreat. While sobering, this result still enabled to reach the primary endpoint of the operation, which was to reoccupy the swamps with sufficient force to avoid an immediate Russian reaction, and fortify the area at top speed.

[Sertorius21]

While heavy fighting was going on around the back door to Kiev, the front line stabilised somehow in the centre. To be more precise, Q-Ball was no longer pushing weak troops, partly demoralised, and had to tackle some of the reinforcements sent there. Still there was relentless action, at odds that were usually low but what mattered was the win. He incurred a couple of upsets on really strong positions but otherwise the Russian lunge continued unabated.

The one illustrated here provided a stark reminder that, if possible, allied troops would fare better under German leadership and with better artillery. In this instance, all things being equal, the attack would have been stopped if the Hungarian armoured division had been attached to a German corps, or even if IV Hungarian corps had been reporting directly to Army Group Centre (-16% instead of -31%). Note that the corps leader is unfortunately not Hausser (or Bittrich).




This determined offensive managed to overcome a couple of important river lines that were frozen. In hindsight, I may have been able to send a bit more support to the area but less than half of the Russian striking forces were accounted for, meaning that other segments of the front could not be depleted too much. At well over 7m men on the map, the Russian army makes me pay for the big mistake of end 1941.

I also needed to secure the area NW of Kiev, which looked more critical for now. Not a lot happened there for a week or so, during which time the panzer forces had grown to 4 fully rested divisions, with strong infantry as well. I wanted to retake the woods or the swamps mentioned in a previous post. Air reconnaissance indicated that there was not a huge mass of troops behind the lines, relatively speaking of course. Then the Balbo cavalry brigade identified a weak infantry division at the hinge between the woods and the marshes, in a level 1 fortification. This division disintegrated and lost nearly all its 8,000 men under a strong attack that would have coped with any reaction.

After that, the Balbo brigade infiltrated in the vacated hex. For once, I was happy with the movement allowance of cavalry. Doing so precluded any reaction if I attacked the swamp hex, which was defended by weak infantry and a tank corps, not entrenched. These were repulsed and a strong force (here under the Julia Alpini division) went in.

This left most of my armoured forces available to attack the woods, defended by three rifle corps. Before doing that, 27Pz infiltrated in a previously vacated hex. The division had participated in the initial attack but suffered very little as opposition was benign. So it was able to carry another attack, this time with 323 ID and another infantry division, against an airborne division. This isolated the woods and their very large defending forces, helping the main striking force to retake the position.




Both important hexes were occupied by strong units. Much to my dismay, Q-Ball managed to repulse the 3SS Pz, the fresh 320 ID and the Hungarian mountain troops from the woods. So he had plenty of troops that could reach the area. He did not avance again the the woods which I managed to consolidate just before mud set in.

Even if the constant battering of my line in the centre was (and is) a major issue, at least the immediate threat to Kiev had been thwarted.