Thanks for the screenshots Bart. I have a non-design query about the combat screen. The screen appears to show the attacker about to select their "chit", but the forces on both sides are already displayed. In EiA and EiH forces are not revealed until after chit selection and is a fairly fundamental plank of the combat system (and FOW). Will this be different in the computer version and if so how?
Cheers,
Vaughan
Empires in Arms Screenshots -01
Moderator: MOD_EIA
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Bart Koehler
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 4:00 pm
- Location: Mt. Olive, NJ
RE: Screenshot 03
ORIGINAL: pfnognoff
First, off course, thank you for letting us see the screens, that will keep the mouth watered for a bit longer...
Now, just one comment, judging form the third screenshot it is possible to pick your combat chits after the forces are revealed. This off course isn't allowed in the original EiA game rules, nor in the EiH. I would say it should be corrected if possible. I can't say how much influence this change, if not corrected, would have on the game balance...
Rules sequence is:
7.5.2.1 Step 1 - Selection of chits
---
7.5.2.6 Step 6 - Reveal forces
Thanks again for the nice pics, and all your efforts to give us the best game!
We are looking into this right now. I mentioned it to Marshall and we will evaluate this as part of the rule set. Good catch. This is why things take so long in development. Catch a bug, kill a bug...repeat.
Bart
RE: Screenshot 03
ORIGINAL: Bart Koehler
We are looking into this right now. I mentioned it to Marshall and we will evaluate this as part of the rule set. Good catch. This is why things take so long in development. Catch a bug, kill a bug...repeat.
Bart
I'm very happy to be able to help. Like I said this is the best game and it deserves equaly good computer version. Bugs are very nasty little critters and they tend to leave little offsprings upon removal [:(]
Maybe we can get some more screens to play "kill the bug" with them? [&o]
RE: Screenshots
I think perhaps the black outline around each unit is not pronounced enough and that framing each one better would enhance the overall look enough that everything else would be pretty much fine as is.
I believe this goes along with what some others have said about giving the unit counter some "depth".
Use a small thin "picture frame" around each one shaded to give the appearance of depth. That's all the 3D that is needed here.
Otherwise IMHO I think most of those that would critique the graphics for this game would not be happy no matter what changes you make since its clear it will not be a "3D" game and I would personally rather see the effort spent elsewhere (such as on the AI for the programmers or other projects for the graphics guys)....
I believe this goes along with what some others have said about giving the unit counter some "depth".
Use a small thin "picture frame" around each one shaded to give the appearance of depth. That's all the 3D that is needed here.
Otherwise IMHO I think most of those that would critique the graphics for this game would not be happy no matter what changes you make since its clear it will not be a "3D" game and I would personally rather see the effort spent elsewhere (such as on the AI for the programmers or other projects for the graphics guys)....
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Blacksheep
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:06 am
- Location: Maryland USA
RE: Screenshots
EIA is a great game, can hardly wait for release. Please keep your priorities straight though: clean game first -- pretty pictures (counters) can come later.[8D]
RE: Screenshot 03
ORIGINAL: Bart Koehler
ORIGINAL: pfnognoff
First, off course, thank you for letting us see the screens, that will keep the mouth watered for a bit longer...
Now, just one comment, judging form the third screenshot it is possible to pick your combat chits after the forces are revealed. This off course isn't allowed in the original EiA game rules, nor in the EiH. I would say it should be corrected if possible. I can't say how much influence this change, if not corrected, would have on the game balance...
Rules sequence is:
7.5.2.1 Step 1 - Selection of chits
---
7.5.2.6 Step 6 - Reveal forces
Thanks again for the nice pics, and all your efforts to give us the best game!
We are looking into this right now. I mentioned it to Marshall and we will evaluate this as part of the rule set. Good catch. This is why things take so long in development. Catch a bug, kill a bug...repeat.
Bart
Should anyone WONDER why I was so vocal about having Matrix show us some screenshots, please read the above exchange and you will KNOW why.
No one or group of beta testers are pefect!
If anything, the justification and the NEED for the posting of MORE screenshots here in this discussion forum is greater than EVER.
[center] Please post more screenshots. [/center]
I'm not saying that the game developers are incompetent or that this game is riddled with bugs and errors. All I am saying is that with more eyes looking for something overlooked, the better things will be all around. It might even mean less work later on when the game is on the CD-ROM.
Vive l'Empereur!
RE: Screenshot 03
Should anyone WONDER why I was so vocal about having Matrix show us some screenshots, please read the above exchange and you will KNOW why.
No one or group of beta testers are pefect!
[:-]
I think you're crossing the line here. For me, screenshots are tidbits which lead to an uncontrollable salivating reaction at the mere thought of getting my hands on this nectar of computational science and wargaming. It also suggests that someone is working on it and gives an impression on where they might be in their development.
As a professional software tester, I do not believe that these screenshots will provide the general masses with an opportunity of finding flaws with the product. Sure, you noticed something here that contravenes the rules. But these screenshots are by no means final and we have no idea exactly where they are in terms of development. By pleading with them to release more screenshots so we can find their mistakes is just asking them to clam up more! Nice disclaimer, but it doesn't erase the fact that you've expressed a remarkable lack of faith. The above quote to me has a very harsh "I told you so! I'm so right and my screaming for screenshots is justified!" tone to it which I feel serves no constructive purpose.
Remember the seinfeld episode where jerry heckles that woman at her work? Whining that matrix should feel obligated to release work in progress so that the general public can help in finding mistakes is close to the same thing. Now they will have to reveiw what they're releasing more closely to make sure that what they're releasing doesn't have any major errors that will bring to question the level of quality of the product. This will just add more stress to Bart and crew.
Andrew Godó
Superavisti palum ignum.
Adiaris, sed nemo sustinet machinam!
Superavisti palum ignum.
Adiaris, sed nemo sustinet machinam!
RE: Screenshot 03
Yes more screenshots does mean the possibility of more errors getting caught.
I would love to see the original counter look put into this game. I can't even tell what half these counters are. They are much too complicated and busy looking, and they are not even good looking. The original counters would look great.
The problem with "beta testers" is that they are not always picked by who has played the game the most or even if they have ever played the game. Most of them are picked because they are loyal company customers, so it doesn't surprise me that the process is taking this long. Also, I kinda got the impression somewhere along the line that the software engineers for this game have never even played it, which would make writing code for it extremely difficult. IMHO.
That being said, I love the map. It looks great.
Yeah, the original release date was like Summer 2003. What happened there?
I would love to see the original counter look put into this game. I can't even tell what half these counters are. They are much too complicated and busy looking, and they are not even good looking. The original counters would look great.
The problem with "beta testers" is that they are not always picked by who has played the game the most or even if they have ever played the game. Most of them are picked because they are loyal company customers, so it doesn't surprise me that the process is taking this long. Also, I kinda got the impression somewhere along the line that the software engineers for this game have never even played it, which would make writing code for it extremely difficult. IMHO.
That being said, I love the map. It looks great.
Yeah, the original release date was like Summer 2003. What happened there?
RE: Screenshot 03
mrgodo,
You have missed the boat entirely. My posts regarding this issue have really NOT been self serving. Rather, they have been about helping this community and this game get done RIGHT. If you could read all of my posts since the very first one that I posted here, you would see that I have been VERY supportive of this game and having it done right. I have repeatedly stated and I will again, I don't care how long it takes, just do it right. Take extra time for heaven's sake.
So promises were made to post screenshots back in November. When nothing happened and it was FEBRUARY, I was unhappy. I admit that I was passionate in voicing my feelings, but I wasn't alone.
As an artist, I know that any screenshot is a work in progress and I also know that screenshots are regularly released by game developers for very good reasons.
mrgodo you said:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I think you're crossing the line here. For me, screenshots are tidbits which lead to an uncontrollable salivating reaction at the mere thought of getting my hands on this nectar of computational science and wargaming. It also suggests that someone is working on it and gives an impression on where they might be in their development.
As a professional software tester, I do not believe that these screenshots will provide the general masses with an opportunity of finding flaws with the product. Sure, you noticed something here that contravenes the rules. But these screenshots are by no means final and we have no idea exactly where they are in terms of development. By pleading with them to release more screenshots so we can find their mistakes is just asking them to clam up more! Nice disclaimer, but it doesn't erase the fact that you've expressed a remarkable lack of faith. The above quote to me has a very harsh "I told you so! I'm so right and my screaming for screenshots is justified!" tone to it which I feel serves no constructive purpose.
Remember the seinfeld episode where jerry heckles that woman at her work? Whining that matrix should feel obligated to release work in progress so that the general public can help in finding mistakes is close to the same thing. Now they will have to reveiw what they're releasing more closely to make sure that what they're releasing doesn't have any major errors that will bring to question the level of quality of the product. This will just add more stress to Bart and crew.
_____________________________
Andrew Godó
Superavisti palum ignum.
Adiaris, sed nemo sustinet machinam! "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was not the one to find the error (if it turns out to be one at all), so my post cannot be an "I told you so" post. My posting was meant to be constructive and pfnognoff finding the error vindicates my original premise.
Sorry, I don't watch much television. If any stress is given to the developement team, it couldn't be from me. It would have to be from the finding of the error in the first place. -Which I believe is not a bad thing in the long run. Please note that I didn't put it there.
It isn't with faith that I buy a game. It is with money. I cannot think of a company that is so reticent to showing screenshots as this one. I want to know what I will spend my money on before I do.
I say again -no one is perfect. The finding of an error and being double sure there are no others is a GOOD thing. Can't you see that? You seem to be advocating what some in the computer gaming industry have been doing for years -which is putting out games that are riddled with bugs and errors. That serves no one except getting those intial sales made until the potential community that could buy the game dries up and goes away. --AND that is something I don't want to see happen here.
You have missed the boat entirely. My posts regarding this issue have really NOT been self serving. Rather, they have been about helping this community and this game get done RIGHT. If you could read all of my posts since the very first one that I posted here, you would see that I have been VERY supportive of this game and having it done right. I have repeatedly stated and I will again, I don't care how long it takes, just do it right. Take extra time for heaven's sake.
So promises were made to post screenshots back in November. When nothing happened and it was FEBRUARY, I was unhappy. I admit that I was passionate in voicing my feelings, but I wasn't alone.
As an artist, I know that any screenshot is a work in progress and I also know that screenshots are regularly released by game developers for very good reasons.
mrgodo you said:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I think you're crossing the line here. For me, screenshots are tidbits which lead to an uncontrollable salivating reaction at the mere thought of getting my hands on this nectar of computational science and wargaming. It also suggests that someone is working on it and gives an impression on where they might be in their development.
As a professional software tester, I do not believe that these screenshots will provide the general masses with an opportunity of finding flaws with the product. Sure, you noticed something here that contravenes the rules. But these screenshots are by no means final and we have no idea exactly where they are in terms of development. By pleading with them to release more screenshots so we can find their mistakes is just asking them to clam up more! Nice disclaimer, but it doesn't erase the fact that you've expressed a remarkable lack of faith. The above quote to me has a very harsh "I told you so! I'm so right and my screaming for screenshots is justified!" tone to it which I feel serves no constructive purpose.
Remember the seinfeld episode where jerry heckles that woman at her work? Whining that matrix should feel obligated to release work in progress so that the general public can help in finding mistakes is close to the same thing. Now they will have to reveiw what they're releasing more closely to make sure that what they're releasing doesn't have any major errors that will bring to question the level of quality of the product. This will just add more stress to Bart and crew.
_____________________________
Andrew Godó
Superavisti palum ignum.
Adiaris, sed nemo sustinet machinam! "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was not the one to find the error (if it turns out to be one at all), so my post cannot be an "I told you so" post. My posting was meant to be constructive and pfnognoff finding the error vindicates my original premise.
Sorry, I don't watch much television. If any stress is given to the developement team, it couldn't be from me. It would have to be from the finding of the error in the first place. -Which I believe is not a bad thing in the long run. Please note that I didn't put it there.
It isn't with faith that I buy a game. It is with money. I cannot think of a company that is so reticent to showing screenshots as this one. I want to know what I will spend my money on before I do.
I say again -no one is perfect. The finding of an error and being double sure there are no others is a GOOD thing. Can't you see that? You seem to be advocating what some in the computer gaming industry have been doing for years -which is putting out games that are riddled with bugs and errors. That serves no one except getting those intial sales made until the potential community that could buy the game dries up and goes away. --AND that is something I don't want to see happen here.
Vive l'Empereur!
RE: Screenshot 03
ORIGINAL: NeverMan
Yes more screenshots does mean the possibility of more errors getting caught.
I would love to see the original counter look put into this game. I can't even tell what half these counters are. They are much too complicated and busy looking, and they are not even good looking. The original counters would look great.
The problem with "beta testers" is that they are not always picked by who has played the game the most or even if they have ever played the game. Most of them are picked because they are loyal company customers, so it doesn't surprise me that the process is taking this long. Also, I kinda got the impression somewhere along the line that the software engineers for this game have never even played it, which would make writing code for it extremely difficult. IMHO.
That being said, I love the map. It looks great.
Yeah, the original release date was like Summer 2003. What happened there?
Yes, the unit images are VERY hard to see in the screenshots, but could that be a screen resolution kind-of-thing. I mean when the screenshot is actually as big as the screen, will the units look so blurry? Once the game is released, I don't think that it will be too long for a mod to be released that will be based on the original counters.
Vive l'Empereur!
RE: Screenshot 03
ORIGINAL: Le Tondu
Once the game is released, I don't think that it will be too long for a mod to be released that will be based on the original counters.
Yes, you are probably right, however, why should a mod be needed when almost 99% of the people on this site (basically the people who are actually going to buy this game) would prefer the original counters?
I mean, maybe (if MatrixGames is lucky), they will actually make a decent amount of money on the retail store sales, however, I think it's unlikely. So most of their money will probably be coming from us, EiA and StrategyWarGamers fans, who are on this forum.
RE: Screenshot 03
Damn boys, I want the best strategic Napoleonic game to date with PBEM capability.
Graphics are NICE, but they sure as hell don't equate to substance. Canvas opinions about graphics and more importantly get feedback on the user interface, but keep the comments focused and in perspective.
Yea, yea, you need the cheez-wiz for some folks, but a good game, with PBEM and a EASY TO USE interface are more critical than if the Ottoman Vizier has the right kind of beard or Infantry units lookin EXACTLY like the EiA counters.
I suggest y'all chill and let the programmers build a game that will stay on the hard drive for 2 years like UV. That is not a function of graphics.
Graphics are NICE, but they sure as hell don't equate to substance. Canvas opinions about graphics and more importantly get feedback on the user interface, but keep the comments focused and in perspective.
Yea, yea, you need the cheez-wiz for some folks, but a good game, with PBEM and a EASY TO USE interface are more critical than if the Ottoman Vizier has the right kind of beard or Infantry units lookin EXACTLY like the EiA counters.
I suggest y'all chill and let the programmers build a game that will stay on the hard drive for 2 years like UV. That is not a function of graphics.
"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC
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DoomedMantis
- Posts: 1357
- Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 4:00 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
RE: Screenshot 03
I like the screenshots, and also prefer graphics over counters in general
I shall make it a felony to drink small beer.
- Shakespeare
- Shakespeare
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Marshall Ellis
- Posts: 5630
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 3:00 pm
- Location: Dallas
RE: Screenshot 03
Hey guys:
A couple of things...
The screen shot reflected an active cheat code. Yes, it was a bug but only in the sense that the cheat code was active by default (This actually goes away in a release version anyway). Remember! You're looking at beta!
Also, it WAS true that I had not played EIA BUT that was two years ago. Needless to say, I've played a few times since then! It did make the coding a little hard to start which explains the numerous games I've played to learn. I hope it doesn't affect game quality. Right now, I'm in two PBEM games under an assumed name!
We're fixing our final elements of the game so the counters you see are more than likely the counters that will be in V1.00 . Once we get a section locked in, no more changes! We cannot continue to modify elements in this horrible never-ending loop of change-test-fix, change-test-fix, change-test-fix or we'll all be dust particles by the time this thing is released!
I don't think anything is off limits to say in this forum. You want screenshots? Scream for them and you'll get'em! This forum is for Matrix people as well so that we can listen to what our customers are saying and what they are wanting. If we don't like what someone sayes ... then we'll simply scroll down to the next post ... no hard feelings and move on. Most people on this forum are mature enough to have a spirited discussion without losing it! I say .. SCREAM FOR IT ... !!!
A couple of things...
The screen shot reflected an active cheat code. Yes, it was a bug but only in the sense that the cheat code was active by default (This actually goes away in a release version anyway). Remember! You're looking at beta!
Also, it WAS true that I had not played EIA BUT that was two years ago. Needless to say, I've played a few times since then! It did make the coding a little hard to start which explains the numerous games I've played to learn. I hope it doesn't affect game quality. Right now, I'm in two PBEM games under an assumed name!
We're fixing our final elements of the game so the counters you see are more than likely the counters that will be in V1.00 . Once we get a section locked in, no more changes! We cannot continue to modify elements in this horrible never-ending loop of change-test-fix, change-test-fix, change-test-fix or we'll all be dust particles by the time this thing is released!
I don't think anything is off limits to say in this forum. You want screenshots? Scream for them and you'll get'em! This forum is for Matrix people as well so that we can listen to what our customers are saying and what they are wanting. If we don't like what someone sayes ... then we'll simply scroll down to the next post ... no hard feelings and move on. Most people on this forum are mature enough to have a spirited discussion without losing it! I say .. SCREAM FOR IT ... !!!
RE: Screenshot 03
ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis
..........You want screenshots? Scream for them and you'll get'em! This forum is for Matrix people as well so that we can listen to what our customers are saying and what they are wanting. If we don't like what someone sayes ... then we'll simply scroll down to the next post ... no hard feelings and move on. Most people on this forum are mature enough to have a spirited discussion without losing it! I say .. SCREAM FOR IT ... !!!
Thanks again Marshall.
[center] Could we have another serving of screenshots, please???[/center]
Vive l'Empereur!
RE: Screenshot 03
Thanks Marshall Ellis for your comments.
So, I scream for an icecream!!!
I ment, I scream for more screenshots.
BTW, why dont you post the new screenshots in the EiA official web page?
Regards,
Manu.
So, I scream for an icecream!!!
I ment, I scream for more screenshots.
BTW, why dont you post the new screenshots in the EiA official web page?
Regards,
Manu.
Santiago y cierra España!!!
RE: Screenshot 03
ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis
The screen shot reflected an active cheat code. Yes, it was a bug but only in the sense that the cheat code was active by default (This actually goes away in a release version anyway). Remember! You're looking at beta!
This is sure good news, to here that it was a false alarm! I just hope you will forget the cheats before we take you on in a PBEM match after the release. [:D][:D][:D]
ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis
I don't think anything is off limits to say in this forum. You want screenshots? Scream for them and you'll get'em! This forum is for Matrix people as well so that we can listen to what our customers are saying and what they are wanting. If we don't like what someone sayes ... then we'll simply scroll down to the next post ... no hard feelings and move on. Most people on this forum are mature enough to have a spirited discussion without losing it! I say .. SCREAM FOR IT ... !!!
My impression of the Matrix forum was allways that it is a support forum for us, the gamers, but a support forum for the developers as well, in an effort to produce the best war games possible in today's RTS/3D infested world. Every post I read here (with a very few exceptions) was allways with the best intentions to help Matrix create another title that will stay on the hard drive for a long long time, without any need to upgrade our computers.
That's why we should all shout keep up the good work!
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carnifex
- Posts: 1294
- Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2002 8:47 pm
- Location: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Countersheet Screenshots
For anyone wondering or wanting to see what the original Empires in Arms boardgame counters look like, here are some links:
EmpiresInArms_AH1.jpg
EmpiresInArms_AH2.jpg
EmpiresInArms_AH3.jpg
EmpiresInArms_AH4.jpg
EmpiresInArms_AH5.jpg
More countersheets HERE
EmpiresInArms_AH1.jpg
EmpiresInArms_AH2.jpg
EmpiresInArms_AH3.jpg
EmpiresInArms_AH4.jpg
EmpiresInArms_AH5.jpg
More countersheets HERE
RE: Countersheet Screenshots
Ah, those were the days!
That post was almost as good as the screen shots.[:)]
That post was almost as good as the screen shots.[:)]
Quote from Snigbert -
"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."
"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "
"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."
"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "
RE: Countersheet Screenshots
Well, I'm a die-hard counter person just like the next guy.
And those counters were functional for a 1986 boardgame.
But surely, in this day and age of powerful computers, we can at least have counters that exhibit a little colour and flair, without stepping beyond the 2D boundary.
Case in point:
2D Napoleonic Counters:
Or there is always the 2D "statutesque" style of units that MTW used. Imagine moving chess-like pieces on the map that has a Napoleonic flair to them:
I think any number of solutions may be found that keeps the game grounded in tradition, while still adding a little something extra for those who like eye candy.
Cheers!
And those counters were functional for a 1986 boardgame.
But surely, in this day and age of powerful computers, we can at least have counters that exhibit a little colour and flair, without stepping beyond the 2D boundary.
Case in point:
2D Napoleonic Counters:
Or there is always the 2D "statutesque" style of units that MTW used. Imagine moving chess-like pieces on the map that has a Napoleonic flair to them:
I think any number of solutions may be found that keeps the game grounded in tradition, while still adding a little something extra for those who like eye candy.
Cheers!