Early war Dutch primer

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

a future house rule i will ask for and employ in PBEM is no mass dutch evac (iesp the ENG units). The dutch would never wholesale abandon their empire. Just plays better that way too.

Dont get me wrong but...
I find that completly stupid and I would never agree to such a rule.

[DrewMatrix]

dutch would never wholesale abandon their empire

Yeah. What I read ("Empires in the Balance", Wilmott is good) the Dutch had very little there in terms of manpower anyhow. Mostly just police and militia quality units. Only a few hundred men in each (large) area near the bases.

They did not evacuate. A few took to the hills and tried to be guerillas. I think the longest any lasted was only a week (on Timor). The terrain was wrong for Guerrilla warfare.

The dutch were blowing up their facilitis as the IJ advance approached.

[SunDevil_MatrixForum]

then the battle of the century will have to be with Nik and Mr. Frag, which I am STILL waiting for. [:D]

[kaleun]

In my PBEM game, I kept the Dutch and Brit units in the DEI, only started pulling things out after the fall of Borneo, and the invasion of Java started. By then, I figure the Dutch commander was drowning his grief in (Malacca)gin, and the US commander on site basically took over.[:)]
I saved those funky looking TIVO torpedo bombers, because they did hurt the Jap ships. Plucky boys those Dutch pilots, I must say. (Say with snotty Brit accent)
Too late Warspite, I got everything i was going to get out of the DEI!

[DrewMatrix]

Plucky boys those Dutch pilots

Yes, in Feb '42 my best Lvl Bomber units have Dutch Pilots. They are the result of merging several units and are small but the guys who are left are good![/b]

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

[
Dont get me wrong but...
I find that completly stupid and I would never agree to such a rule.

I guess we wont be PBeming then [;)] No sweat. To each his own i say. I've only played once so far as Japan in the GC but i found the wholesale evac of the Dutch created odd situations in other theaters not to mention accelerated an already fast pace.

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

[
Dont get me wrong but...
I find that completly stupid and I would never agree to such a rule.

I guess we wont be PBeming then [;)] No sweat. To each his own i say. I've only played once so far as Japan in the GC but i found the wholesale evac of the Dutch created odd situations in other theaters not to mention accelerated an already fast pace.

Its all a series of tradeoffs. I dislike house rules a great deal.
If I play PBEM the IJN can do anything they want. Port attack as much as they want on turn 1 etc. Makes no difference to me.
Just wait until I have 150 B-17's and B-24's set to port attack [;)]

[Mr.Frag]

Can the AI (Will the AI) (does they AI need) a boost in the amount of escorts given to Transport TFs in "non-rear-areas" (anywhere the enemy has LB Air/bases)?

I get the general impression (real life, not from the game) that not having enough escorts was a big problem for the IJ. They run out of DDs and then can't escort Combat nor Transport TFs adequately.

That is being looked at by Gary but realistically, the AI will fall prey to a back door attack.

Japan is grossly short on escort. There is never enough. The AI can't do any better then you can when faced with this shortage. There is just not enough around to cover even the front line advances forget about rear areas.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager


Its all a series of tradeoffs. I dislike house rules a great deal.
If I play PBEM the IJN can do anything they want. Port attack as much as they want on turn 1 etc. Makes no difference to me.
Just wait until I have 150 B-17's and B-24's set to port attack [;)]

i agree. I dont use a great deal of hourse rules but i do find a few to be helpful for creating a more historical atmosphere. After all, both players dont have to deal with the historical politics and divisions of commands and also have complete control over the wealth of their forces.

that was the whole reason why the PP system was created and overall it works well, but not in the case of small units such as ENG units. They are cheap to convert and can be mass evac'd (along with tons of resource) Never thought about it much till Kid showed me how much a crafty player can really exploit this. read: mass buildup of forward bases in NG, Burma etc....well in advance of any Japanese advance.

[UncleBuck]

Nik,

It is true a crafty Player can build up the Coral Sea area or Burma, but this also means they do far less damage to the Factories and such in DEI. I think that is a fair trade for Japan. You get less damaged bases and faster since they are not increasing Fort as fast either. Unless you planned on tieing down lots of forces in SOlomons it is a pit anyway , easily cut off if you lose a battel in teh Central Pacific.

UB

[DrewMatrix]

The AI can't do any better then you can when faced with this shortage.

Can't do any better than the real Japanese in the real war then, either.[:)]

[Nikademus]

this is true. I havn't seen yet the impact such stratagies have on the infrastructure but i do know leaving the troops in place does tie up large Japanese assets and forces them to pay attention to the SRA...otherwise they can fan out all the sooner.

[von Murrin]

That's an interesting way of playing, FJ. [:)]

I'm definitely more of the Frag school of active defense. IMO, the longer you can tie up the Japanese in the SRA, the more time you have to move war materiel to your own prospective operational arenas. Active defense requires a much higher commitment of troops by IJ and will likely force an IJ player or AI to recycle combat units from Philippine and Malay operations. Successful defenses of those areas can stall out an IJ advance for weeks.

Here's my war plan:

1. Set fort construction to expand in critical bases. Move HQ's to these locations. (Singapore, Mandalay, Bataan, Batavia/Soerabaja).
2. Fighting withdrawal in Maylay Pen. and Luzon.
3. Evac Manila to Soerabaja. Naga to PI bases with the intent of drawing off supply for Luzon.
4. Load single AK's with supply. Tarakan/Brunei/Balikpapan to Manila, Palembang/Batavia to Singapore. Repeat until futile. [:D]
5. Load TK's with oil for Australia. Load AP's and AK's with fuel/supply for Australia.
6. Concentrate British combat vessels at Singapore for opportune strikes. Evac to Trincomalee at fall of Tavoy. Do not lose these ships if at all possible.
7. Concentrate Dutch/US combat vessels at Batavia/Soerabaja for opportune strikes. Evac survivors before fall of Java.
8. Move any and all Dutch engineers to resource/oil heavy bases. Use PP if necessary.
9. Concentrate submarines in Empire, Formosa, and South China Sea. Deploy short ranged subs in island choke points.
10. Evac USAAF air just before the fall of Manila. The P-40's provide cover for your unloading AK's. Evac British LB and FB air before fall of Tavoy. Evac British TB and F air to Sumatra/ Rangoon before fall of Rangoon. Evac Dutch air survivors to Australia before fall of Java.
11. Don't forget to set unit objectives! Prep points are worth entire divisions in the early war.

In a nutshell, anyway.[:D]

The idea is to give Singapore and Bataan/Clark/Manila the best chance to hold as long as possible. Even one extra week will give you at least two and maybe up to four by the time Java eventually falls. Keeping ABDA, USAFEE, and Far East air power in the SRA forces the IJ to keep theirs in place, and allows for cover over your AK's moving materiel about.

I much prefer to pull oil and at least some resources out of the SRA as IJ needs it so very badly. I'd rather deny IJ HI and feed my own in Oz. While TK's do that, the AK's and AP's can shift supply to critical defense points around the SRA and fuel as well as supply to Darwin. Any AP's not moving engineers (usually just one or two) or supply can move resources. You don't really need them; this is pure denial.

Overall, keeping naval and air forces active in the SRA to the longest possible moment will force the IJ to do the same. Every squadron or ship used by the IJ in th SRA is one less to face elsewhere. I find I can move troops, supplies/fuel, and a/c almost unimpeded throughout the South, Central, and North Pacific. Most useful.[:)]

[ZOOMIE1980]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

If your anything like me playing as the early war Allies if fairly simply except when it comes to how to handle the Dutch. I was answering a question in another forum so I decided to expand it a little bit and provide some tips that I have picked up in my playing.
Alot of this is probably common sense but I will provide it anyways since im bored and helping just one person is worthwhile.
If I get enough of a response then I will clean it up bit and expand it and maybe Spooky and put it on his website.
If everyone thinks I actualy give out some good advice I may keep adding to this as part of a series and eventualy put it together and make a complete Allied stratadgy guide.
Anyways...for now I will present you with my guide on how to manage your early war Dutch assets.



Here is my ordered list of what to save in order of most imporatance.
What to save:

1. Dutch LCU units like base units and Engineer units. Dutch combat units arnt worth a damn so its best to save things that provide aircraft support and can build up your bases.
2. Any airgroups. There are only a few airgroups worth saving but any you want to save will have to be put aboard AK's if you want to haul them to India. I save alot of my Dutch Patrol craft and a few select bomber and fighter units.
3. Fuel. I would rather save finished fuel than oil any day. With oil it has to be shipped back to Japan to be turned into fuel, so its better to save the finished product.
4. Oil. Haul it out of there as much as you can besides whats above.
5. Supplies. Same as above. I would rather save the finished goods than resources.
6. Resources. If you have any room left pick these up and haul them away.

How to save it:

Now here is where it gets complicated. I send most of my Dutch LCU's and airgroups up to India to help out there and in Burma. But India has a steady stream of supply flowing in from Karachi and doesnt need the Fuel, Supply, Oil and Resources.
This is where it takes a little bit of management to pull it off smoothly. You will have transports steaming up to India and cargo ships hauling the rest of the cargo down to Austrailia.
Once you unload in OZ you can go back north and try and pick up more cargo or just send your transports to India.
However once CV's or LBA enter the DEI moving a ship through the area is suicide. So if planes get between your ships and the rest of the Dutch force in India then its best to let them fight the rest of the war aiding Australia.
NEVER send an empty dutch cargo ships anywhere. Thats just a waste of the room. Load it up and then send it. If it gets sunk then of course you lose the points but the Japanese lose whatever was in the ship.
Leaving goods around for them to capture just aids their effort.
Use my list above and stuff your ships to the gills and then send it off to India or Australia.


Tips for surface ships:
Here you can use two different styles. You can use your Dutch surface vessels to activly attack the Japenese.
You will lose alot of ships in this manner so I dont really like doing it.
The second is my style and thats to play turtle. Put all your surface vessels as escorts to your cargo ships and once they are loaded get them the hell out of dodge.
Your surface fleet can be tied in with other vessels later in the war which will give them a fighting chance.
Dutch subs are some of the best in the game, all those islands proivide for lots and lots of ambush spots and choke zones.
Unfortunatly there isnt a port where your subs can reload torpedos so you must go somewhere else for that. But you can dock your subs and suck up a little fuel and supply every turn if you want.
Save your surface fleet to fight another day instead of battering them against the IJN early in the game. Let them provide ASW and AA support to your cargo fleets.

A few last tips: These are things I thought of while I was writing the above.
On turn 1 expand ALL of your Dutch bases. At first this sounds stupid but here in my reasoning.
Your bases wont actualy have time to ever expand so you wont be helping out the Japanese.
The main reason for doing this is it sucks up supply!
Every unit of supply consumed before the Japanese get their hands on it is a tiny little victory in the early war.
Later when the Japanese are on your doorstep you can turn expansion off and save the supply for any sieges that might occur.

I mentioned this above but I will go back into it in a little more depth. Dont EVER send a cargo ship away without its full load. Even if you know its going to get pasted by aircraft the next turn do not send it away. I would much rather it suck up 1000 more supply and then go down the gloomy deep then sail away and leave 1000 supply for the Japanese to use. The whole point of the take over of the DEI is for resources. Your job as the Dutch is to deny them as much of this resource as you can. You are not going to be able to hold on to your bases so the next best option is to haul away as much of the usefull items as you can while perserving your combat surface fleet. A 100% full ship at the bottom of the ocean is better than a 50% full ship steaming away.

There are lots of scattered AK's in Australia at the beginiging of the war. Since it will be a while until you can secure a supply line to America its best to gather these up in 1's and 2's and sail them up to the DEI and start gathering what you can and sailing it back. Do this as many times as you can until Japanese airpower makes the runs no longer possible.
There are LOTS of bases in the DEI. Alot of them have no troops in them but have 1-3 k of supply or fuel. Send out AK's in ones and twos and collect from these bases and haul it back to Australia. Use your AP's too since it will be a while until you need them to haul troops around.


With a bit of good management and a bit of luck you can make one of the greatest planned withdrawls in military history. You will have left your LCU's in key areas to delay the Japanese invading units. Key airgroups will have been left to provide CAP and score the occasional lucky hit on a Japanese surface vessel. And most importantly you will have hauled away key supplies to bolster other areas and denied its use to the Japanese.
There is no worse feeling as the Japanese than taking a base with a large amount of oil and resources and finding out not only is it damaged but there isnt near enough supplies on hand to repair the damage. They will have to send back to Japan for the supplies and you will have really fouled up their entire time table.
If you can do this you will be well on your way victory.

Hope this helps some.

The Dutch subs can base out of Darwin or Broome if you build their ports to maximum size. But you need to salvage AS's from Manila and elsewhere since Darwin's port is too small. But with some AS's in Drawin you can deploy subs into the southern SRA with some ease.

I send all but a small, handful of AP's to America, post-haste. India doesn't need AP's, you can march anything that arrives in Karachi along the rails to the CBI in about a week. Australia, SWPAC and South Pacific don't need AP's until prep for offensive operations begin. But there is a chronic shortage of AP's in America when LCUs start to arrive enforce in early 1942. The focus is getting LCUs from America to Noemeu and SWPAC, first. After the first major combat units are there, leave some AP's behind to start forward deploying forces to places like Luganville and PM (if you still have it). You also need a few AP's to deliver those Northern Command Troops to Alaska. They start arriving early, too, and you don't want aggressive Japs to take Alaska because you haven't deployed you LCUs to Dutch Harbor and such...