Magazine explosions

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Keep in mind that surface combats are bloodier now as per your requests.

This means you will be seeing more of this type of result simply because combats last more rounds even without any change in the odds.

No, not a connection in this case. The requests, at least the ones i made were for more decisive surface warship vs merchant vessel combat, but merchants appear to be exempt from the critical hit rule. I have never seen one Merchant class ship suffer a "magazine explosion"

warship vs warship combat remains pretty much as in terms of combat rounds exchanged. Further, airplane vs warship combat is also unchanged but is impacted by the critical hit frequency as well.

[Nikademus]

only problem i see here is that some warship types, regardless of armor would be less likely to see massive ammo explosions. Take DD's for example, pretty much unarmored, but in most cases their ammo was self conained (shell/charge) so there were no "powder magazines" to set off. One reason why you dont see alot of DD's exploding. Such a situation may have well contributed CL Boise avoiding that fate when a 8 inch diving shell penetrated her forward magazine in 42.

For simplicity's sake, i'd prefer just making it 1% per belt/deck penetration and making sure the math is functioning correctly. 1% is further justified vs older wargames again because of the smaller # of HL's two of three majors of which can trigger this event (Tower armor/Belt armor/Deck armor) Weapons mount hits always include either a deck/belt HL being struck as well.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

only problem i see here is that some warship types, regardless of armor would be less likely to see massive ammo explosions. Take DD's for example, pretty much unarmored, but in most cases their ammo was self conained (shell/charge) so there were no "powder magazines" to set off. One reason why you dont see alot of DD's exploding. Such a situation may have well contributed CL Boise avoiding that fate when a 8 inch diving shell penetrated her forward magazine in 42.

For simplicity's sake, i'd prefer just making it 1% per belt/deck penetration and making sure the math is functioning correctly. 1% is further justified vs older wargames again because of the smaller # of HL's two of three majors of which can trigger this event (Tower armor/Belt armor/Deck armor) Weapons mount hits always include either a deck/belt HL being struck as well.

What about auxilliaries? I've yet to see an AK explode. They are too darn tough right now.

[tsimmonds]

Such a situation may have well contributed CL Boise avoiding that fate when a 8 inch diving shell penetrated her forward magazine in 42.

Boise's sister Savannah was struck by an FX-1400 guided bomb (the same weapon that sank Italian BB Roma) while off Salerno. This was the largest bomb to strike any US warship during WWII. It went through the roof of #3 gunhouse, passed down the barbette, and 600 pounds of Amatol exploded in the midst of the forward magazines. But whether because the flooding was so rapid or because all of the 5" and 6" propellant charges were in brass cartridges, there was no devastating secondary explosion.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

What about auxilliaries? I've yet to see an AK explode. They are too darn tough right now.

I think loaded merchants should be elligable for a critical hit. In this case instead of a "magazine explosion" per se, it would be an munitions explosion or fuel explosion. I'm also playing around with merchants with DUR halved. I'm liking the results i am seeing.

KA-BOOM! [;)]

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

What about auxilliaries? I've yet to see an AK explode. They are too darn tough right now.

I think loaded merchants should be elligable for a critical hit. In this case instead of a "magazine explosion" per se, it would be an munitions explosion or fuel explosion.

KA-BOOM! [;)]

This is exactly why I included all the different % chance of explosions for various ship types. For game purposes, a magazine explosion does not neccesarily have to be from a magazine hit for all ship types. The point is that it is fatal and can be used to simulate a variety of causes for massive explosions.

[Rabbakahn]

Howdy,

Just curious. In the combats with magazine explosions, how many penetrating hits are there? How many hits total?

Answers to those questions will go a long way to help know if the results are probable. Sometimes our gut feeling is not in line with the resulting probability distribution at hand.

btw, no I do not yet own the game. I do enjoy reading these fine forums everyday until I receive the game for my upcoming birthday or christmas. (digging through my wallet)

Frederick

[Nikademus]

for simplicity's sake though....it would just be easier for the devs to include merchants as elligable. In this case, i'd agree, a slightly higher % for merchants could be warrented but i wouldn't want to see "too" big an increase. After all...not all merhcants will have volitile cargo aboard. Maybe give merchants a 5% chance.....all warship types 1%

[Tankerace]

In my first 1.3 surface action, here is the breakdown of hits sustained by ship:

Prince of Wales fires 14" main battery against Chikuma (I think it was her)

Shell 1: Miss
Shell 2: Hit on 8" turret, turret destroyed, penetration, magazine explodes
Shell 3: Miss
Shell 4: hit
Shell 5: hit
Shell 6: hit
Shell 7: hit
Shell 8: hit
Shell 9: Miss
Shell 10: Miss

On the second one, HMS Mauritus (Light cruiser) versus Mogami

Shell 1: Miss
Shell 2: Miss
Shell 3: 8" turret hit, destroyed, magazine explodes!
2 or 3 other shell hits, all belt penetrations.

However, Mogami got off 3 more salvoes, and disabled Mauritus, before sinking along with Chikuma.

On the plus side, with mag explosions like this, I think it will really help out my War Plan Orange mod. People will be more cautios about deploying their battlecruisers.

[Black Cat]

That`s extraordinary shooting ( hits ) for the POW, I have never seen that in many, many starts of pre 1.30 Games.

Have the upped the ships rating in the DB ?, or perhaps added another 4 gun turret[:D]

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: Wolftrap

I think magazine explosions could use a little work also. I just sunk the Hyuga with one well placed Dutch torpedo... BOOM!!! I'm not sure there's any precedent to torpedoes causing a magazine explosion in a battleship.

The German pre-dreadnought Pommern was hit by a torpedo in the closing stages of the Battle of Jutland in 1916, and was blown to pieces as a result in what was almost certainly a magazine explosion.

[Rabbakahn]

If 4% chance of penetrating hit causes mag explosion, then P(1)=6(.04)(.96)^5 = 0.196 approx.

We should then expect to see the PoW vs Chikuma happen one time five (about). Is this combat typical?

If the chance was changed to 1%, then P(0)=(.99)^6=0.94 approx. or .06 probability of at least one mag explosion.

One note: I wonder if the check for explosion was done on the penetrations after the first. If not, then the calculated probability is not right.

Frederick

[Tankerace]

ORIGINAL: Black Cat

That`s extraordinary shooting ( hits ) for the POW, I have never seen that in many, many starts of pre 1.30 Games.

Have the upped the ships rating in the DB ?, or perhaps added another 4 gun turret[:D]

This was her third salvo, at a night range of 2,000 yards. I too was surprised. So much so I thought the game looped. But, it was a full 10 gun broadside.

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Niki

Interestingly enough, i have never seen a merchant suffer one. They seem to be either exempt or the code is working properly in their case.

I didn't know that Merchants had Mags



HARD_Sarge

[SteveV]

Couple quick comments as I chime in:

1) 14 inchers at 2000 yards *should* penetrate and have a high probability of major damage. I have zero problem with the model for that result v. a CA. The bigger problem would be the 14 inchers passing through before exploding.

2) I would love to see AE's and tankers carrying *fuel*, not oil, have an extremely high probability of a magazine explosion. On the Arctic convoys, the merchant marine crew of AE's didn't even bother wearing life jackets. They knew that if a UBoat hit them, it was curtains. Playing a PBEM game now and hit an AE with a torp and it was a simple hit, not big "blooie" like I was hoping for. Can't imagine this would be too tough to include and adds one of those nice details that are so appreciated.

SteveV

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: SteveV

Couple quick comments as I chime in:

1) 14 inchers at 2000 yards *should* penetrate and have a high probability of major damage. I have zero problem with the model for that result v. a CA. The bigger problem would be the 14 inchers passing through before exploding.

2) I would love to see AE's and tankers carrying *fuel*, not oil, have an extremely high probability of a magazine explosion. On the Arctic convoys, the merchant marine crew of AE's didn't even bother wearing life jackets. They knew that if a UBoat hit them, it was curtains. Playing a PBEM game now and hit an AE with a torp and it was a simple hit, not big "blooie" like I was hoping for. Can't imagine this would be too tough to include and adds one of those nice details that are so appreciated.

SteveV

Even bigger problem is the incessant 2000 yrd engagements between battleships. Gimme a break. There was one or two instances of this point blank range battleship involved brawls in the whole war in every ocean. Be nice if only the small fry closed to these ranges at anything approaching the frequency we see here.

[Nikademus]

"Niki?"

Sounds like someone's favorite cat. [;)]

How about......."Cargo Hold full of Ammunition Explosion" (will that fit on the screen???!!!!) [:'(]

[dtravel]

That may not fit, but "Oh sh.... BOOM!!!" should. [:D]

[Tankerace]

ooh, ooh, how about KABLOOEY!!!!!!!!!!! followed by You sank my battleship.

[fbastos]

In my first 1.3 surface action, here is the breakdown of hits sustained by ship:

Prince of Wales fires 14" main battery against Chikuma (I think it was her)

Shell 1: Miss
Shell 2: Hit on 8" turret, turret destroyed, penetration, magazine explodes
Shell 3: Miss
Shell 4: hit
Shell 5: hit
Shell 6: hit
Shell 7: hit
Shell 8: hit
Shell 9: Miss
Shell 10: Miss

On the second one, HMS Mauritus (Light cruiser) versus Mogami

Shell 1: Miss
Shell 2: Miss
Shell 3: 8" turret hit, destroyed, magazine explodes!
2 or 3 other shell hits, all belt penetrations.

Hey, Tanker? How did you get that information? By looking in the animation or is there some report with that?

F.