Combined Historical Scenario - General

[2ndACR]

Stick a size 5 repair facility in there. Once I capture it, it will become a size 60+ repair facility.[:D]

[Herrbear]

Posting here as no forum for location. I would think that Port Moresby should be a 0 or 1 port to start and then build up.

Source: Victory in Papua by Samuel Milner. Part of the US Army in WW II series.

Plans to make Port Moresby a large supply and communications area were well advanced. On 11 August (1942) the U. S. Advanced Base in New Guinea was established by USASOS with headquarters at Port Moresby. Its functions were to aid in the operation of the port and other ports in New Guinea. The port itself, shallow and suitable only for light traffic, was to be improved. Existing facilities permitted only one ship to be unloaded at a time, and that very slowly, with the frequent result that as many as two or three others had to wait in the roads to unload, exposed all the while to enemy attack. Since the existing harbor site did not lend itself to expansion, General Casey planned to develop Tatana Island (a small island in Fairfax Harbor to the northwest of the existing harbor) into an entirely new port. The new development, which would permit several ocean-going ships to be unloaded at one time, was to be connected with the mainland by an earth-filled causeway a half-mile long, over which would run a two-lane highway with a freeboard of two feet over high tide. The project was to be undertaken as soon as engineers and engineering equipment became available.12

[CobraAus]

On 11 August (1942)

thats my birthday

Cobra Aus

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: Herrbear

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


[*] Changing HQ assignment of the bases in New Caledonia and New Hebrides Islands to Australia Command instead of South Pacific.

Much of this work is based on information supplied by "Pascal". If anyone is interested, an ammended list of my base modifications is on my website, at this temporary address:

Andrew

I disagree with the change of New Caledonia and New Hebrides to Australian Command. I would suggest leaving them as So Pac. Australia did not have any administrative control over these areas as they did the Solomons.

Also, I am wondering why Soerbaja does not have a Repair Facility. This was the main Dutch base in DEI. It had a large drydock and machine facilities. I can see this as maybe a 15 or 20.

I too believe the Free French Bases should be under US control, but the question is when. The the beginning of the war the only non-French troops in the region were Australian (a handful of men at Vila plus an Independent Company that sailed for Noumea on the second day of the war). Once the U.S. South Pacific command moved into Noumea the region came entirely under U.S. command. It might well be a good idea to start under Australian Control and have to pay the polictial points to switch to SoPac.

I do agree with some repair capacity at Soerabaja. I've seen several references to facilities there, including the drydock that ate the Stewart, but I have no idea what they actually were and how to represent them in the game.

I also agree (obviously) that the New Caledonia and New Hebrides bases should not be under US control at the start of the game. The USA was a neutral power until 7th Dec 1941 - they did not have operational control of these areas. At that time New Caledonia and the New Hebrides were, as far as I am aware, controlled by the Free French and mandated to France/UK (not Australia but there is no appropriate top level British HQ to use) respectively.

I would like to have New Caledonia (along with the Society Islands) under Free French control, but there is no top level French HQ. We could add one, but there are no French icons (sadly). Also, since the US South Pacific command will soon turn up and take control there is no real need to add it apart from the idea of adding "chrome".

Naval repair points can easily be added to Soerbaja if that is agreed, in the same way that I added some to Victoria BC.

Speaking of New Caledonia:

- I moved the 117th USN US base force there back to the US West Coast. Is this correct?

- What about the AKs there, and the transport aircraft in Fiji (VMR252)? I am inclined to move them to the US West coast as well, or is that not correct?

- Because I was not sure whether Noumea was completely empty at the start of the Pacific war I moved the 114th RAF base force from Tongarapu to Noumea, but this is just pure guesswork on my part. Should there be any forces at all in Noumea at the start of the game? If not, where should that RAF base force be placed (if anywhere)?

Andrew

[Herrbear]

- Because I was not sure whether Noumea was completely empty at the start of the Pacific war I moved the 114th RAF base force from Tongarapu to Noumea, but this is just pure guesswork on my part. Should there be any forces at all in Noumea at the start of the game? If not, where should that RAF base force be placed (if anywhere)?

Andrew

One source on the web says Australian troops landed on Noumea in late Feb 42.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Herrbear

- Because I was not sure whether Noumea was completely empty at the start of the Pacific war I moved the 114th RAF base force from Tongarapu to Noumea, but this is just pure guesswork on my part. Should there be any forces at all in Noumea at the start of the game? If not, where should that RAF base force be placed (if anywhere)?

Andrew

One source on the web says Australian troops landed on Noumea in late Feb 42.

The only force at Noumea on Dec 7, 1942 was a weak French garrison - primarily constabulary. An Australian Independent Company (2/3 if I recall) left Australian Dec 8th with the primary mission of demolition in case the Japanase arrived before the Americans. Major U.S. forces left New York in January and eventually became the Americal Division.

http://www.americal.org/oob-6814.shtml

I have a detailed study of early US reinforcements in a microsoft word doc. I'd be glad to sent it to anyone that is interested and especially to anyone that could contribute additional data.

[Lemurs!]

I agree with many of these size changes, lowering is needed for many of the at start ratings.

However, i wouldlike to present to possible increases from recent reading. Singora and Georgetown, raise to size 2 port.
They were both, especially Georgetown, quite important in the tin & rice trade. Georgetown specifically had a well developed comercial port.

Mike

[Ron Saueracker]

Going to lower some of the atoll base sizes like Midway for example? I have trouble seeing it as a six or 5. 4 Max I'd say.

[Halsey]

Level 4 for Midway max. Lemur's reduction in the B-17 bombload would allow them to fly from these size airfields. Wasn't the reason given it was a 6, was because B-17's flew from there?

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Level 4 for Midway max. Lemur's reduction in the B-17 bombload would allow them to fly from these size airfields. Wasn't the reason given it was a 6, was because B-17's flew from there?

I believe this was the case.

[Herrbear]

In your mod the B-17E still shows max bomb load as 6800 while the D and G is 4800. Did you mean to lower the E also?

[Bradley7735]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

We have access to the historical production rates (assuming this has been used as the basis of Allied production), what would be more appropriate?

By using factories that convert, it effectively removes the old aircraft from production. This may help you get closer to what happened historically in effect. Some aircraft production onverted, others simply started on a date and ran the whole war ... I'm simply saying if you need to, you have this ability to have things convert instead of having the older aircraft continue it's production forever which grants too many aircraft.


So you are proposing adding just factories which produce the older models? Interesting but... Pretty easy for Allies to switch and mass produce hindsight aware good planes and skip mediocre types though does it not? I'd hate to see this game become more of a fantasy than it is rushing headlong into with the 1.5 manufacturing/upgrade features. Why did they just not design it so that the historical production numbers and pruduction run start and end dates were hard coded on the Allied side? Prewar numbers are finite. Too easy. Building Bolos and stuff throughout the war is silly

Hi Ron,

Allies can't change, increase, modify, expand, or switch production/factories of any kind. I think that you guys can put all allied production on map (aircraft anyway) and get a more historical outcome from it.

For example, let's say that 100 TBD's, 2,000 TBF's and 5,000 TBM's were produced from Dec 41 to Aug 45. You start with 3 factories. One small one producing TBD's (maybe 5 or 10). That factory will change automatically to TBF's once TBF's are able to be produced. Now you have a 2nd factory producing TBF's. In Dec 41, it's only an RnD factory. Have it produce 50 or so. Remember to add in the 5 or 10 from the TBD's, since they'll contribute to total monthly productions. You'll have a 3rd factory producing TBM's somewhere as well. The other two will change to TBM's at some point and all 3 will produce TBM's. You might not even need 3 factories. Maybe having one that converts to TBF and TBM will be enough. I'd have to play around with the equations to figure out how many factories and what size you'd need. (I don't have access to historical productions and start dates)

Rinse and repeat for all plane paths. (Vindicator, Dauntless, Helldiver) (Bolo, B-17C, B-17E, etc)

What you get from this is no more early model productions coming in. You'll only have the newest planes being produced. Eventually, you'd run out of TBD's (although, no one would ever use them if TBF's were available).

You should put the planes that weren't produced on the west coast in the USA base (or something similar), so that KB can't come in and destroy production of planes produced on the East Coast.

I don't see how an allied player can game this option (putting production on map and not off map). You can't make any changes as the allies.

I don't know what you'd do about British production. Adding it to India doesn't seem right. And, adding the Chinese plane productions to on map would allow the Japanese player to completely eliminate Chinese production. But, I think there's potential for USA, India, Canada, NZ and Australian production.

Now, maybe I'm seeing this all wrong. Please let me know if you think the allied player could game this in a negative way. I think my theory is correct.

Thanks, guys.

[Halsey]

Hey, you're right. Was the B-17E left out by accident?[X(]

[Lemurs!]

The B17 bombload is going back to 6800lbs. I guess. Theoretical max and all that. The B17e did tend to carry the largest loads during the war though.

I have fixed the ship bombing from heavy bombers in a different way.

Mike

[Herrbear]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

I have fixed the ship bombing from heavy bombers in a different way.

Mike

Pray tell us...the suspense is killing

[Herrbear]

US forces landed in Noumea in March, 1942. That seems early enough to keep them under US control since there are no Free French control. There probably should be no base force there to start and have it as a reinforcement to ship to Noumea.

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

I agree with many of these size changes, lowering is needed for many of the at start ratings.

However, i wouldlike to present to possible increases from recent reading. Singora and Georgetown, raise to size 2 port.
They were both, especially Georgetown, quite important in the tin & rice trade. Georgetown specifically had a well developed comercial port.

Mike

I think that Georgetown is already size 2. But what about Songkhia/Singora? I think that it is size 1 - should it definitely be increased to 2 in your opinion? Actually what about the name of the base itself. Would Singora be a more accurate name? I have seen both names used.

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Level 4 for Midway max. Lemur's reduction in the B-17 bombload would allow them to fly from these size airfields. Wasn't the reason given it was a 6, was because B-17's flew from there?

Any other opinions on whether Midway should be a level 4?

[eMonticello]

From History of Marine Corp Aviation in World War II, Robert Sherrod:

"VMR-252. Redesig VMJ-252 from VMJ-2 on 1Jul41 at Ewa. By May42 had initiated first air-transport service to Midway and other outlying Pac bases. ... Supply and evac missions flown from Marshalls, Saipan, Tinian, Guam, and Iwo invasions. Moved to Kwajalein in Mar45 and following month was operating in and out of Okinawa."

So, Moving it to Pearl Harbor makes the most sense.

Aside from an Aussie weather station and a Pan Am way station, there was little military activity. I suggest moving everything out of Noumea.

http://www.wingnet.org/rtw/rtw003b.htm

http://www.navsource.org/Naval/usfc.htm

http://www.pacificislandtravel.com/hawa ... comes.html

http://www.austehc.unimelb.edu.au/fam/0654.html

"FO Mason and Sgt Martin had been stationed at Vila, administrative centre of the Condominium, since arriving by flying boat in early November 1941. The Vila meteorological section played its part in the battle of the Coral Sea by issuing forecasts for some of the aircraft that took part, but in May 1942 instructions were received for all RAAF personnel to leave Vila. The following day the Australian auxiliary cruiser Manoora took aboard all the men and proceeded to Sydney by way of Norfolk Island.
Similarly, the RAAF weather section at Noumea, New Caledonia, did not function for long. FO (later Sqn Ldr) C. J. Wiesner and WO K. A. Smith established the section at the Air Force base on Ile Nou in October 1941, receiving cooperation from the French meteorologist and the Pan American base on the island. They met with many difficulties, among which were the hampering effect on communications provided by the poor telephone service, the language inconvenience and, at one stage, isolation caused by a nearby outbreak of bubonic plague.

In August 1942 meteorological services were taken over by the United States Navy and the Australians returned home. "

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

Speaking of New Caledonia:

- I moved the 117th USN US base force there back to the US West Coast. Is this correct?

- What about the AKs there, and the transport aircraft in Fiji (VMR252)? I am inclined to move them to the US West coast as well, or is that not correct?

- Because I was not sure whether Noumea was completely empty at the start of the Pacific war I moved the 114th RAF base force from Tongarapu to Noumea, but this is just pure guesswork on my part. Should there be any forces at all in Noumea at the start of the game? If not, where should that RAF base force be placed (if anywhere)?

Andrew

VMR252

[Herrbear]

Midway -- I suppose that you mean it is a base one that can be built to a four max, not a max size of four which could be built to a size 7. 4 (1) not 7 (4)