The Pacific

New York Jets · Post by **New York Jets** » Wed Jul 04, 2001 5:52 am

I would love to play a Pacific campaign. Japanese vs. American/British/Chinese/etc.
BTW: I noticed on the Stephen Ambrose website that Spielberg is planning a movie on Iwo Jima.

[ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: Chris Trog ]

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Jul 04, 2001 6:35 am

Great news, Chris! That one should be a winner! And with the Nam one in the works...wow!

Wild Bill

Mike Mnich · Post by **Mike Mnich** » Wed Jul 04, 2001 7:19 am

Dear Bill,
The Pacific is my favorite. I like to read the history, and I'd love to see several
US Campaigns including Megacampaigns. I like playing Allies rather than Axis powers.
Mike

General Mayhem · Post by **General Mayhem** » Wed Jul 04, 2001 3:19 pm

Any chance of getting atom bomb to game?

Personally, I've been tempted to drop couple
of them to few hills in couple of battles I've played.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Jul 04, 2001 3:34 pm

Now that would be a blast!

Wild Bill

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Jul 04, 2001 3:36 pm

Preisely one of the reasons I am asking the question, Mike. I personally really want at least one mega campaign of the Pacific. One of the island battles, Guadalcanal, Okinawa, Saipan, or fighting on New Guinea.

I hope I can realize that dream.

Wild Bill

RolandRahn_MatrixForum · Wed Jul 04, 2001 3:52 pm

Originally posted by General Mayhem:
Any chance of getting atom bomb to game?

Personally, I've been tempted to drop couple
of them to few hills in couple of battles I've played.

I'm currently working on a small USMC vs. Japan Campaign covering the Invasion of Japan in late 1945/1946 (will need at least a couple of months to finish it).
The representation of atomic bombs still gives me some headache....
I am trying representing the effect of a tactical nuke by placing some black beach hexes around ground zero and placing rough desert hexes some 100's yards around it, but the result did not look satisfying...
By the way: I started a thread regarding the representation of tactical nuclear weapons in late march.

Kind regards,
Roland

General Mayhem · Post by **General Mayhem** » Wed Jul 04, 2001 4:38 pm

Originally posted by Wild Bill:
Preisely one of the reasons I am asking the question, Mike. I personally really want at least one mega campaign of the Pacific. One of the island battles, Guadalcanal, Okinawa, Saipan, or fighting on New Guinea.

I hope I can realize that dream.

Wild Bill

I looked battle of Saipan, and it looked mighty intresting: www.cnmi-guide.com/history/ww2/4/main4.html

2/3 of troops were Marine and rest U.S. Army? If so, then one could play both forces. Which would expand usability of potential campaign a lot. Also playing Japanese could be intresting.

But I don't know enough about the battle
to be sure.

[ July 04, 2001: Message edited by: General Mayhem ]

RolandRahn_MatrixForum · Wed Jul 04, 2001 4:45 pm

Hello everybody,

I am sorry if this is a little off-topic, but I think that earlier in this thread there were some posts about the use of the atomic bomb with opinions about their use in WWII.

1st:
1 000 000 US casualities.
The original estimates where around 250 000 US casualties for Olympic (Invasion of Kyushu, November 1945) and Coronet (Invasion of Honshu, March 1946)
This would lead to some 60000 KIA/MIA, the rest wounded.
For the Japanese, the death rate would be very likely 10+ Millions. One of the main (and today often forgotten) reasons is that there would have been a mass starvation in Japan if the war had continued. Japan depends on fishing much more than most other countries, and the situation in late 1945 prevented fishing.
And the Japanese transportation system was going to collapse under the allied air raids, this would have prevented the transportation of food into the urban areas.
It is often forgotten that a mass starvation in 1946 was prevented only due to the shipment of approx. 800 000 tons of food from the US to Japan.
2nd:
There were other people dying on the asian mainland (mostly in China).
The Japanese were using biological weapons in China resulting in outbreaks until 1948. Had the war continued, there are estimates that every additional months of warfare would have resulted in up to 100 000 additional deaths on the asian mainland.
3rd:
There was a "peace fraction" in the Japanese goverment. However, even the doves were rejecting the idea of unconditional surrender.
Foreign Minister Shigenori Togo was one of the advocates of a quick end to the War. However, when the Japanese ambassador of Japan in the Soviet Union (Naotake Sato) advised that an unconditional surrender should be accepted if it is modified by the extension of retention of the Imperial Institution, he [Togo] rejected this proposal.
This was intercepted by the US Intelligence. The cover page of the Magic diplomatic summary of July 22, 1945, started with:
"Tokyo again says no unconditional surrender; Sato pleads for peace"

All this leads me to the conclusion that there were militarily justifiable reasons for the use of the Atomic Bombs in 1945. While I do fully sympathize with every innocent person killed or harmed by the atomic bombs in 1945 (and all other innocent victims of airraids in WWII), I think that these people were victims of the imperialist Japanese goverment.

To get a better picture of what happened in August, 1945, I can only recommend the following books:

Richard B. Frank:
Downfall. The end of the Imperial Japanese Empire.
John Ray Skates:
The Invasion of Japan. Alternative to the bomb.

Also usefull:
Dunnigan, James and Nofi, Albert:
The pacific war encyclopedia.

I must apologize for posting this here, but I could not resist to say something regarding some earlier posts in this thread. Maybe we should continue (if this is desired) to disuss this under "Matrix games general discussions" or some other place.

Kind regards,
Roland

Halgary · Post by **Halgary** » Wed Jul 04, 2001 5:27 pm

Originally posted by Warrior:

Actually, that's not why we atom bombed the Japs. Probably we just wanted to see what the atom bomb would do to a real city, as cynical as it may sound. The Japs had been trying to surrender for months before we dropped the bomb, but we refused to talk to them.

I heard about that too. It got something to do something with the fear of russia becoming the New Enemy. Leaders of USA wanted to show who was the boss, and what happened to those who opposed them. After all, who knew what Stalin would have done AFTER germany was conquered?

Attacking a country (or it's allies) who posessed a bomb great enough to destroy entire cities were too big of a risk even to Stalin.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Thu Jul 05, 2001 12:03 pm

Sorry gentlemen,

In my haste to mention Pacific battles, I inadvertently left out the two fine campaigns by Bruce Hodgman and William Rusco.

William did the Tulagi Campaign and Bruce is the author of the Guadalcanal campaign. Both are excellent examples of Pacific war fighting!

Wild Bill

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Jul 05, 2001 7:47 pm

anyone out there want to work on a pacific campagin with me? Both set up opposing forces - in this case japs - test battles, and work on maps? I'm thinking of a US army, Philip., New Guinea, and back to Philip. Not historic in the sense of following a specific unit. More along the lines of a generated campaign, but with better maps, and a storyline.

My interest in this area has been rekindled by my recently learning of the exploits of one of my great uncles. Apparently, he went into New Guinea as a Private First Class in '42, and spent the entire war in the same Company. He ended up as a First Sgt. at the end of the war. I'm trying to get more details, which are pretty much tainted by family lore by this point. It does seem pretty rare that a man could stay in a line unit for that long. He did have malaria, that i know.