CHS mod w/special map v.3b: Tristanjohn (Japan) vs. Ron Saueracker (Allies)

Post descriptions of your brilliant successes and unfortunate demises.

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Tristanjohn
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RE: US Navy faced with a modern day Plan Orange?

Post by Tristanjohn »

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Hmmm. I'm a little weirded out here. KB and its six heavy carriers were not used anywhere on turn one, squandering the surprise bonus. Hunting my carriers (hope not...that would be exploiting foreknowledge of locations)? Was that KB parked of western Luzon during replay? So, TJ did not hit PH or Manila, where is he? What has a large concentration of shipping? I noticed TJ chose fixed reinforcements so I'm guessing and will plan for a possible strike at Panama, and Yorktown, by the slime bags in Tokyo.[:-]

We never had the least intention to sink your pathetic old battleships off Ford Island. The Emperor is after bigger game. War has been declared, make the best of it. And quit whining! (It will only get worse. [:D])


Regarding Frank Jack Fletcher: They should have named an oiler after him instead. -- Irrelevant
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RE: US Navy faced with a modern day Plan Orange?

Post by Ron Saueracker »

I'm not whining! I'm name calling, and I'm calling a spade a shovel! [:D] Maybe I'll look for the TKs which are most definitely trailing KB. Then when KB is out of fuel I'll bomb the snot out of it with only one CV...all it would take with all those CVs unable to operate aircraft.
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RE: US Navy faced with a modern day Plan Orange?

Post by Lemurs! »

Hi guys,

The Martlet problem is my fault, mea culpa. I cannot believe that slipped through since Don and I spent about 12 hours talking about nothing but Wildcats. Sigh. We will fix it.

The base problems (supply allocations and size) I am going to lay at Don's doorstep because he is my whipping boy. I told him to start with my lemus mod first and work from there because i had already redone bases and supply amounts.

Palau was one of the 3 most important Jap bases and should have more supply. Several bases with nothing there were fixed by me but then slipped through the cracks. We will fix it.

Mike

Ps. Let me know what you think of the new Japanese ground unit OOB.

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RE: News flash! Japanese attack Manila!

Post by TheElf »

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

7 December 1941

Manila, Philippine Islands -- Tidningarnas Telegrambyrå

Japanese fighter and bomber airplanes were heard to roar over the capital of the Philippine Islands early this morning, and before American military authorities could react these angels of death began to systematically destroy everything in sight. The entire city is in an uproar with citizens running for their lives. The dead are everywhere, and the screaming wounded survivors litter the streets.

This unheralded attack by Japan will undoubtedly mean that the United States will be dragged into what appears now to have become a world war.

At this time no official announcement has been made by the American consulate in Manila. Reporters of this news agency are currently trying to contact the American and Philippine military leadership for further details on what to do in this emergency.




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Ugghh. What in the world is going on with those tops? Tris, could you tell me how you replaced the Jtop_alpha? It looks like you may have an earlier Alpha in your art file as some of the new Jap planes are aligned properly, but others are not. Could you please check for me?

Did you have a previous version of my modded tops before you added the ones I just sent?
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Things I don't understand

Post by Tristanjohn »

I've given the new arrangement down at Guadacanal some more thought. I've looked at it hard and just can't rationalize this new setup. No "port" ever existed or ever could exist off Lunga Point or anywhere out in those roads. In my opinion sites such as this should be hardcoded to preclude development of a "port" facility higher than 1. There should also be a provision in that code, however, to allow such a base which is Allied controlled to beef that up to a 2- or 3-level port facility, at least by 1943, this to simulate "American know-how" in these matters as the war ground on.

Look at it this way. Even in consideration of American know-how was Lunga ever really and with a straight face developed into a 5-level port? Basically what we'd be talking about is to move an American naval base force in there, then throw in some other engineer assets for good measure, let everyone do their thing for a month, and . . . presto! . . . Milwaukee?

I would further limit Lunga's airfield potential to (3) instead of the present (4). The Americans did build a decent complex on the site eventually, but I think a 7-level airfield at Lunga one day will look (and function) a bit odd. Also, it gives the Japanese a build potential there which I seriously doubt existed. In actual game terms given their relative paucity of engineering assets this might be a moot point, but even so, I'd advise toning the Lunga airfield potential down.

Thoughts? Rebuttal?
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Art anomolies

Post by Tristanjohn »

Ugghh. What in the world is going on with those tops? Tris, could you tell me how you replaced the Jtop_alpha? It looks like you may have an earlier Alpha in your art file as some of the new Jap planes are aligned properly, but others are not. Could you please check for me?

Did you have a previous version of my modded tops before you added the ones I just sent?

Yes, I've noticed several anomolies, with one of your transparent masks appearing one time over (in back of) a bomber formation. How that might be possible I don't know, but see it I did. [:)]

I copied the files over the same way I always do, Ian. Simply unpacked everything into the ART folder, then wrote over the existing files.

Please send me your complete collection again and I'll restep that process, and see if we can't clear this up.


Regarding Frank Jack Fletcher: They should have named an oiler after him instead. -- Irrelevant
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RE: Art anomolies

Post by TheElf »

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn
Ugghh. What in the world is going on with those tops? Tris, could you tell me how you replaced the Jtop_alpha? It looks like you may have an earlier Alpha in your art file as some of the new Jap planes are aligned properly, but others are not. Could you please check for me?

Did you have a previous version of my modded tops before you added the ones I just sent?

Yes, I've noticed several anomolies, with one of your transparent masks appearing one time over (in back of) a bomber formation. How that might be possible I don't know, but see it I did. [:)]

I copied the files over the same way I always do, Ian. Simply unpacked everything into the ART folder, then wrote over the existing files.

Please send me your complete collection again and I'll restep that process, and see if we can't clear this up.



I have figured out the problem and the zip file should be in your inbox. The jptop_alpha I sent earlier is an old one. I have sent the correct file amongst the other three files. You only need replace the jptop_alpha file. Should remedy the situation.
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RE: Things I don't understand

Post by Halsey »

This is also the case regarding Midways airfield. The designers stated that they made it a level 6 because B-17's flew from there. As we all know now, B-17's CAN fly from a level 4. With the extended range bombload of course.[;)]
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RE: Things I don't understand

Post by Tristanjohn »

ORIGINAL: Halsey

This is also the case regarding Midways airfield. The designers stated that they made it a level 6 because B-17's flew from there. As we all know now, B-17's CAN fly from a level 4. With the extended range bombload of course.[;)]

Well, there were a number of B-17 flights off Midway to be concerned with. The problem is which account to believe.

According to one report, on 4 June 1942 16 B17s took off at 0400 loaded with 4x 500 lb bombs and extra fuel to attack the troopships, then were subsequently diverted toward the Japanese carriers around 0800. They found nothing.

On 6 June 1942 another 12 B17s headed out optimistically at 0815 with 4x 500lb bombs to attack the two Japanese cruisers Mogami and Mikuma which were wallowing along at reduced speed due to their collision.

Let me now digress for that cockup.

Mogami had collided with Mikuma. This is what happened.

Early in the morning on 5 June 1942 lookouts on flagship Kumano had spotted the surfaced USN submarine Tambor and so ordered a simultaneous 45° turn to port to evade torpedoes. The third ship in line happend to be Mikuma which for whatever reason misinterpreted the order and executed a 90° turn to port instead. Unfortunately, Mogami, trailing directly behind Mikuma, followed her orders to the letter and so duly executed the 45° turn to port. Everything might have still worked out okay had the navigator aboard Mogami, Lt. Cdr. Yamauchi Masaki (he was later promoted to captain! [8D]) was watching Suzuya, which was the second ship in line, instead of the ship immediately ahead of him! And so Mogami just steamed blithely on to ram poor Mikuma below the bridge portside, which caved in the bow of Mogami.

Mikuma had her portside oil bunkers ruptured in this incident, but she was otherwise still seaworthy. Mogami, however, could only proceed at reduced speed. Rear Admiral Takeo Kurita (Close Support Group, Comcrudiv 7) then ordered Mikuma and destroyers Arashio and Asashio from Desdiv 8 (previously escorting AO Nichiei Maru) to escort Mogami. This formation then proceeded on a westerly course at 12 knots.

I love that story! [:D]

Back to our B-17s: as I said, these reports tend to vary. Just for example, another report by the Japanese stated that that only 8 B-17s arrived over the stricken crusiers, not 12 per the report above, and at 0534, when above we find a departure time for that flight of 0815 hours.

Morison has it this way.

On 3 June 1942 Captain Simard on Midway ordered 9 B-17s to fly off in seach of troop transports in response to a sighting by Ensign Jack Reid in a PBY some 700 miles out from the atoll, first sighting 0900 hours, reaffirmation of this sighting at 1100. At 1624 the same day these B-17s found and bombed these transports from altitude 8,000 to 12,000 feet and reported hitting "two battleships or heavy cruisers" and two transports. (Following this strike, four amphibious PBYs armed with torpedoes went out in search, and at 0115 the following morning these planes made radar contact with the enemy task force. At 0143 three torpedoes were dropped and one of these fish hit the oiler Akebono Maru. I mention this with respect to the game's night-naval-attack model. This action, by the way, was confirmed after the war in the combat report of Argentina Maru and the testimony of Japanese officers then present, including Capt. Toyama and Lt. Cdr. Yunoki.)

Fifteen Flying Fortresses in command of Lt. Col. Walter C. Sweeney took off from Midway before dawn 5 June 1942 to attack the Occupation Froce, then were diverted in flight toward the Japanese carriers instead on Captain Simard's command. These bombers found the enemy flattops at 0810 and dropped 8500 pounds of bombs per plane from 20,000 feet. These pilots pulled away at 0820 and claimed four hits on two carriers, but nothing was actually better than a near miss.

There's more. Major Blakely ran some more B-17s out after the burning carriers later in the afternoon, etc.

Re the pursuit of Mogami and Mikuma: Captain Simard ordered the Forts out again at 0430 on 6 June 1942, but at 0615 they reported back that they could find no targets. This was in response to the original sighting by Tambor at 0215, 90 miles due west of Midway.

The charmed Mogami, though heavily bombed on 6 June 1942 by the USN carrier force, eventually made it safely back to Truk. The very much less fortunate Mikuma didn't make it. A sort of happy ending.

Anyway, the point to all of that was I'm not sure whether the B-17s off Midway needed to fly with reduced loads or not if they weren't carrying extra fuel.
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RE: Japanese airplanes bomb Hong Kong!

Post by TheElf »

Man that Tojo needs work. Gotta get that one done this weekend
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RE: Japanese airplanes bomb Hong Kong!

Post by Tristanjohn »

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Man that Tojo needs work. Gotta get that one done this weekend

I guess you could say (literally) it was a little rough around the edges. (Pero tranquilo, amigo, hay tiempo suficiente.)
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RE: Japanese airplanes bomb Hong Kong!

Post by Ron Saueracker »

My brain is hurting! I've only got 3 PBEMs, although the CHS first turn is a doozy and taking the most effort...soooo much to do and soooo much different.

How does Mogami manage 9!!![X(][;)]
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RE: Japanese airplanes bomb Hong Kong!

Post by TheElf »

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Man that Tojo needs work. Gotta get that one done this weekend

Ahhh. Much Better.

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RE: Japanese airplanes bomb Hong Kong!

Post by Tristanjohn »

ORIGINAL: TheElf
ORIGINAL: TheElf

Man that Tojo needs work. Gotta get that one done this weekend

Ahhh. Much Better.

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Indeed! (Send it to me immediately, please. [:)])
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RE: Japanese airplanes bomb Hong Kong!

Post by Tristanjohn »

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

My brain is hurting! I've only got 3 PBEMs, although the CHS first turn is a doozy and taking the most effort...soooo much to do and soooo much different.

How does Mogami manage 9!!![X(][;)]

Well, for one thing he's not out all day hawking Kablammo! (TM) [:D]

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RE: Japanese airplanes bomb Hong Kong!

Post by bradfordkay »

" Anyway, the point to all of that was I'm not sure whether the B-17s off Midway needed to fly with reduced loads or not if they weren't carrying extra fuel. "

Well, since the rule is that level bombers flying form too small an airfield cannot fly at extended range, and when flying at normal range must use extended range load - and these aircraft were apparently carrying extra fuel for extended range - then Midway must be capable of normally launching B-17s.
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RE: Japanese airplanes bomb Hong Kong!

Post by Halsey »

The rule does allow B-17's to fly extended range from a level 4 airfield with reduced bombloads.

This was clarified by one of the betas last week.[;)]

The size of the airfield does not restrict the range. So there's no reason to have Midway a level 6 LAX.
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RE: Japanese airplanes bomb Hong Kong!

Post by Tristanjohn »

ORIGINAL: Halsey

The rule does allow B-17's to fly extended range from a level 4 airfield with reduced bombloads.

This was clarified by one of the betas last week.[;)]

The size of the airfield does not restrict the range. So there's no reason to have Midway a level 6 LAX.

I wonder what Midway would be like to take a tour around. What do you think, an hour for the whole place, including the complimentary coffee at the door? On the other hand, one could easily get lost at LAX. I almost did once, and then managed to get pickpocketed in the process on top of that, which required something over an hour to accomplish. So I guess I'm a slow worker to boot.

Be that as it may, I'd say Midway was no LAX, and probably still is not.
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RE: Japanese airplanes bomb Hong Kong!

Post by Ron Saueracker »

Holy Crap! Three more hours and still plugging away! This is by far the most involved first turn as Allies yet! Lots of nuances popping up I did not even catch the last few months this scenario has been in development...amazing job Don and Mike with the OOBs and editor efforts.[&o]

Some further weird issues. Manila was not attacked but look at the ops point expenditures for the ships in Manila Bay. Some are even off the meter! I have no explanation or theory. Anyone?

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Gremlins?

Post by Ron Saueracker »

I don't see reference to S-39 being hit in my replay or the text version of Japan's. What is going on here I do not know. Am I blind?[&:]

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Notice leader issue on turn one as well.
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