3 years and nothing changed

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: Sturmpionier

BTW I have officially died from laughter.

That explains your choice of avatar.[:D]

[KG Erwin]

This one's for Sturmpionier-- a fitting end to this thread may be contained in the following photo: "Had enough yet? Come over here and I'll gnaw on yer leg!"[:D]

[FNG]

ORIGINAL: Sturmpionier



"I'll show those Communist Chinese who's boss. Ha! 30 morale ought to prove the folly of state-run agriculture."

I mean come on, this is funny stuff.


BTW I have officially died from laughter.

I hope you realise that I just soiled my chair in the office and possibly ruptured something. My colleagues have enquired if I need medical help.

[ibalkid]

You owe me 12 dollars for the keyboard i just ruined here at work by spewing my coffee all over it as i cackled like a madman. The monitor i was able to wipe down, no biggie, but i do expect 12 US dollars in my inbox by the end of the day![8|][;)]

[Sturmpionier]

ORIGINAL: ibalkid

You owe me 12 dollars for the keyboard i just ruined here at work by spewing my coffee all over it as i cackled like a madman. The monitor i was able to wipe down, no biggie, but i do expect 12 US dollars in my inbox by the end of the day![8|][;)]

[;)]

Awesome!


If you are wondering how I typed this, go watch the creepy film "White Noise."

[Korpraali V]

Ok, this is quite rude... but just had to try...
[;)][:D][:D][:D]

[Goblin]

ORIGINAL: Korpraali V

Ok, this is quite rude... but just had to try...
[;)][:D][:D][:D]

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: Sturmpionier

ORIGINAL: ibalkid

You owe me 12 dollars for the keyboard i just ruined here at work by spewing my coffee all over it as i cackled like a madman. The monitor i was able to wipe down, no biggie, but i do expect 12 US dollars in my inbox by the end of the day![8|][;)]

[;)]

Awesome!


If you are wondering how I typed this, go watch the creepy film "White Noise."

WOW that is a GREAT movie!!
makes ya wonder huh?

[Sturmpionier]

Definitely a spooky film.

The avatar hybrid above got me thinking. If we were to put everybody's avatars together, would it be really cool, or just a big goopy mess?

Hmm. I have nothing but time now that I am merely a floating specter (having died of laughter, if you want to understand the process, go see the film "Who Framed Roger Rabbit;" watch the weasel scenes.) However, I am thinking of applying for a promotion to poltergeist. You guys let me know since I am literally not going anywhere.

[VikingNo2]

This is the avatar I use at the Depot, maybe me and Sturmpionier. Can start some sort of skeleton Warrior team

[Major Destruction]

ORIGINAL: AndrewC

edit: but let me remind you what we're talking about here

// LEADER EXPERIENCE
// 1939 to 1945
{70,75,75,75,70,65,60}, //GERMAN
{70,70,70,65,65,60,60}, //FINNISH
{30,30,35,35,30,25,25}, //ITALIAN
{30,30,30,30,25,20,20}, //RUMANIAN
{35,35,35,35,30,25,25}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,70,70,70}, //JAPANESE
{40,40,40,40,35,35,35}, //FRENCH
{50,50,55,55,60,60,60}, //BRITISH
{45,45,45,50,50,50,55}, //BELGIUM

{45,45,45,50,55,60,60}, //GREEK
{45,45,40,45,45,45,45}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,40,45,50,55,50}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{55,55,55,60,60,65,65}, //CANADA

You are right. It is all subjective crap. Totally out of reason with history.

For example look at the British. In 1939-40 the British army had very fine leaders, well experienced regular army, most with war time experience in the first World War and other actions. By 1941-42 the rot had truly set in with the best officers being appointed to staff positions or killed in action and the rest bickering with each other along regimental lines.

By the time of 1st Alamein, the average British soldier was embarrassed by the waste caused by inept leadership. The feeling for senior officers was almost as bad as it had been in 1917 and bordered on hatred.

Only after Montgomery reintroduced the basic concept of professionalism where regimental commanders were told to obey orders or else, did leadership rise to pre-war levels. There is no reason for British leadership to be as high as 55 in 1941 (higher than in 1940) but also no reason why British leadership should be lower than say that of Japan in 1939.

The Canadian statistic is laughable. Who would accept that Canadian leaders in 1939-40 would have more experience than the French or Belgians - or Italians for that matter?

THe entire list needs to be reworked. If Japan is used as the yardstick since it appears that Japanese leadership was consistent throughout the war years, it should not be difficult to arrive at a more acceptible chart.

[VikingNo2]

Your right the leadership does seem low. The problem is what is average. I don't know. With levels in the 20's they are almost not playable.

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

Your right the leadership does seem low. The problem is what is average. I don't know. With levels in the 20's they are almost not playable.

Yeah, history sucked, didn't it? What do you guys want to do, have a politically correct OOB set? [8|]

Give me a freakin break. Yes, most of the minors in 1939 were bad, and so were some of the majors.

As a general rule, the conqueror nations (Germany and Japan), seem to be pretty damn good.

In game terms, it's the way it should be.

[FlashfyreSP]

// LEADER EXPERIENCE
// 1939 to 1945
{70,75,75,75,70,65,60}, //GERMAN
{70,70,70,65,65,60,60}, //FINNISH
{30,30,35,35,30,25,25}, //ITALIAN
{30,30,30,30,25,20,20}, //RUMANIAN
{35,35,35,35,30,25,25}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,70,70,70}, //JAPANESE
{40,40,40,40,35,35,35}, //FRENCH
{50,50,55,55,60,60,60}, //BRITISH
{45,45,45,50,50,50,55}, //BELGIUM
{45,45,45,50,50,50,55}, //DUTCH
{45,45,50,55,60,65,65}, //POLISH
{30,35,40,45,50,55,60}, //SOVIET
{40,40,45,50,55,50,55}, //US ARMY
{55,55,55,60,65,70,70}, //US MARINE
{25,25,25,30,35,40,40}, //CHINESE
{45,45,45,50,55,60,60}, //GREEK
{45,45,40,45,45,45,45}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,40,45,50,55,50}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{55,55,55,60,60,65,65}, //CANADA
{45,50,55,55,60,60,60}, //INDIA
{55,55,55,60,65,65,65}, //ANZAC
{40,40,55,60,55,60,60}, //FREE FRENCH
{25,25,25,25,25,35,45}, //COMMUNIST CHINA
{50,55,55,55,55,60,60}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{40,40,45,60,55,60,55}, //PHILIPINNES
{45,50,50,50,50,55,55}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{45,50,50,50,50,55,55}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{30,30,35,35,30,25,25}, //BULGARIA

// LEADER MORALE
// 1939 to 1945
{70,70,70,70,70,65,50}, //GERMAN
{70,70,70,65,65,60,55}, //FINNISH
{40,35,35,35,30,25,25}, //ITALIAN
{35,35,35,40,35,30,25}, //RUMANIAN
{35,35,40,45,40,35,30}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,70,70,70}, //JAPANESE
{40,40,35,35,30,30,30}, //FRENCH
{60,60,60,60,60,60,55}, //BRITISH
{45,45,45,50,55,60,55}, //BELGIUM
{45,45,45,50,55,60,55}, //DUTCH
{60,55,50,55,60,65,60}, //POLISH
{35,40,45,50,55,60,65}, //SOVIET
{40,40,45,50,55,60,60}, //US ARMY
{55,55,60,65,70,70,70}, //US MARINE
{35,35,35,40,40,40,40}, //CHINESE
{60,60,60,55,60,65,65}, //GREEK
{45,45,40,45,50,55,55}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,40,45,50,55,60}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{65,65,65,65,65,65,65}, //CANADA
{45,45,45,50,50,55,55}, //INDIA
{65,65,65,65,65,65,65}, //ANZAC
{40,40,55,60,55,60,55}, //FREE FRENCH
{35,35,35,40,40,45,45}, //COMMUNIST CHINA
{45,45,40,45,50,55,55}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{40,40,55,60,55,60,55}, //PHILIPINNES
{45,45,40,45,50,55,55}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{45,45,40,45,50,55,55}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{35,35,40,45,40,35,30}, //BULGARIA

// TROOPS EXPERIENCE
// 1939 to 1945
{65,70,75,70,65,60,55}, //GERMAN
{70,70,70,65,65,60,60}, //FINNISH
{35,35,40,40,35,30,30}, //ITALIAN
{35,35,35,35,30,25,25}, //RUMANIAN
{35,35,35,35,30,30,30}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,65,60,55}, //JAPANESE
{45,45,45,45,40,40,40}, //FRENCH
{50,50,50,55,60,60,60}, //BRITISH
{45,45,45,50,50,50,55}, //BELGIUM
{45,45,45,50,50,50,55}, //DUTCH
{45,45,50,55,60,65,65}, //POLISH
{35,40,45,50,55,60,60}, //SOVIET
{40,40,40,45,50,55,60}, //US ARMY
{50,50,50,55,60,65,70}, //US MARINE
{30,30,30,35,40,40,40}, //CHINESE
{45,45,45,50,55,60,60}, //GREEK
{45,45,40,45,45,45,45}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,40,45,50,55,50}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{50,50,50,55,60,65,65}, //CANADA
{40,45,50,55,55,60,60}, //INDIA
{50,50,50,55,60,65,65}, //ANZAC
{45,45,50,55,50,55,60}, //FREE FRENCH
{30,35,40,40,45,45,55}, //COMMUNIST CHINA
{45,50,50,50,50,50,50}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{35,35,40,40,45,50,50}, //PHILIPINNES
{35,40,50,50,50,50,50}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{35,35,35,35,35,35,35}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{35,40,45,45,40,35,35}, //BULGARIA

// TROOPS MORALE
// 1939 to 1945
{70,70,70,70,70,65,50}, //GERMAN
{70,70,70,65,65,60,55}, //FINNISH
{40,35,35,35,30,25,25}, //ITALIAN
{35,35,35,40,35,30,25}, //RUMANIAN
{35,35,40,45,40,35,30}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,70,70,70}, //JAPANESE
{40,40,35,35,30,30,30}, //FRENCH
{60,60,60,60,60,60,55}, //BRITISH
{45,45,45,50,55,60,55}, //BELGIUM
{45,45,45,50,55,60,55}, //DUTCH
{60,55,50,55,60,65,60}, //POLISH
{35,40,45,50,55,60,65}, //SOVIET
{40,40,45,50,55,60,60}, //US ARMY
{55,55,60,65,70,70,70}, //US MARINE
{35,35,35,40,40,40,40}, //CHINESE
{60,60,60,55,60,65,65}, //GREEK
{45,45,40,45,50,55,55}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,40,45,50,55,60}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{65,65,65,65,65,65,65}, //CANADA
{45,45,45,50,50,55,55}, //INDIA
{65,65,65,65,65,65,65}, //ANZAC
{40,40,55,60,55,60,55}, //FREE FRENCH
{35,35,35,35,35,35,35}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{25,25,20,20,25,30,30}, //PHILIPINNES
{40,45,45,45,45,45,45}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{35,35,35,35,35,35,35}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{25,25,30,30,25,25,25}, //BULGARIA

Of course, Gunny. As we can see, your favorite boys are right on target, historically speaking, aren't they?

C'mon. USMC leaders with higher experience in 1940 than British leaders, who had been in combat against the Italians in North Africa? Marine troopers with the same experience in 1940 as the British troops, who were fighting in North Africa?? Worse yet, Marines with higher experience in 1939 than Indian troops, who, led by British officers, had been dealing with the Northwest Frontier and bands of raiding hillmen for years before war broke out???

I won't argue the Morale ratings, because that stat is somewhat subjective...it depends on what the term "morale" means to the person defining it. But the Experience rating...I'm sure that actual combat experience has to play some part in this rating. Otherwise, it's a meaningless stat. And the USMC, as well as the US Army, had little actual combat experience before 1942. Period.

Oops...I'm in trouble now. After all, can't make the US forces look bad here.

[KG Erwin]

Flashfyre, I requested that the USMC levels be REDUCED from earlier OOB versions, and so they were. The high leadership levels are the result of the combat experience gained in the "Banana wars" of the 30s. A hard core of experienced officers and non-coms served as the core for a future expansion, which came to pass after Pearl Harbor. A policy of splitting and expanding, amoeba-like, guaranteed that a uniform quality would be assured. This policy was maintained by the Marine Corps throughout the war.

Yeah, the Marines are my favorites, and now, in comparison to their fearsome Japanese opponents, they still have a very tough time in the early days. Look at the Japanese-- my god, the Orientals WERE superior to us, at least in game terms. No wonder we ended up having to burn and blast these men to death in the last two years of the Pacific War.

You have a problem with that?

[FlashfyreSP]

I have a problem with arbitrary determinations as to the Leadership ratings in the game. By what criteria were these ratings determined, and why are some of them nearly science fiction? From my extensive reading over the years, I have yet to see any historian give definitive evidence that certain national militaries were better than others, when they hadn't been in combat. Peacetime training and wargames do not equate to combat experience; troops who have "seen the elephant" have the edge over those who haven't.

You yourself have pointed out that US equipment should be made available in the game when it makes its combat debut. Now you would have me believe that the entire Marine Corps wasn't gutted like the rest of the US military during the 20's and 30's...and it acquired combat experience in a group of ficticious "wars"? And this is why the Marines in the game should have higher experience than the British?? The only thing the Marines did during the 30's was practice amphibious landings and reorganize their force composition; there were no "banana wars" for them to fight in. Unless you used the term to describe the riot control duties in Nicaragua, or the guarding of the mail in China. See this link for more information: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/I/index.html#

I'll quote some of it here to highlight points of interest:

As of 30 June 1939, two months before Hitler's armies launched their Blitzkrieg, Marine Corps strength stood at 19,432 officers and enlisted, of whom 4,840 (including aviation components) were assigned to the Fleet Marine Force. FMF ground forces were organized in two units optimistically designated "brigades," each in actuality an understrength infantry regiment reinforced by skeletonized supporting elements: 1st Brigade based on the east coast (Quantico), 2d Brigade on the west coast (San Diego). Each brigade had the support of a Marine aircraft group of corresponding numerical designation, and FMF aviation further boasted a scouting squadron (VMS-3) based in the Virgin Islands.

Slightly less than 20,000 men before war begins.

However, conversion of international tension into armed conflict in Europe resulted in a marked quickening of United States defense efforts. And from that point on the Commandant's Annual Reports reflect a steady succession of upward revisions in personnel planning until by 30 November 1941 total strength stood at 65,881, the number give or take a few, with which the Marine Corps would enter the war against the Axis Powers a week later at Pearl Harbor

From 20,000 to almost 66,000 in 18 months.

But of greater significance than the increase in over-all strength was the growing proportion of that strength represented by the Fleet Marine Force. Fiscal 1940 saw the numbers of the Corps' striking arm more than doubled: from 4,525 to 9,749; and this figure in turn had more than tripled by 30 November 1941, reaching 29,532. One factor largely responsible for this impressive increase was mobilization in November 1940 of the entire Organized Marine Corps Reserve, both ground and air, thus making available a large number of officers and men, at least partially trained, for incorporation into the FMF with a minimum of delay.

And the striking force of the Marines rose from 4,500 in 1939 to 30,000 at the end of 1941. Again, in 18 months.

In 18 months, the USMC tripled in size, yet was not involved in any combat theater. Taking the Experience rating in the game as a representation of the average Marine soldier, can you honestly say the entire Corps deserves that rating?

How does this history explain why the USMC force in the game has Leader and Troop Experience equal to the British Tommies, who had been at war in the desert, as well as France, for most of that 18 month period? [X(]
How??

I am not advocating lowering the USMC ratings; I am, however, vehemently calling for the entire list to be reviewed and brought into line with historical evidence. National armies who were in combat theaters should have numbers higher than those who weren't.

[KG Erwin]

Thanks for your insights, Flashfyre. I look forward to seeing your version of what the ratings should be. We can pass them on to Michael and go from there.

As for the fictitious banana wars in Nicaragua and Haiti, US Marines did die there, and many future WWII Marine leaders such as Lewis "Chesty" Puller fought in those non-existent battles against regional terrorists.

By your standards, Flashfyre, I suppose the current riot actions in Iraq don't exist either. [8|]

[FlashfyreSP]

Well, what can I say in the face of your overwhelming fan-atic love of all things jarhead?

As far as I'm concerned, facing bandits in Nicaragua isn't the same as facing trained and well-led soldiers from the Empire of Japan (who, by the way, had been in combat in China and Manchuria for years). And only a small proportion of the USMC had this experience to begin with. Spread out over 60,000 troops...that certainly qualifies the entire Marine Corps to have an equal or higher Experience rating than nations who had already been at war. [8|]

But I can see that your love affair with the Corps simply blinds you to any non-partisan evaluation of the facts. Keep believin' what you believe...

Oh, and it's pointless for you to bring up current events in Iraq and other locations in this discussion; we are talking about the Marines of World War II, not the Corps of today.

[mogami]

Hi, Why don't you just edit the ratings and drop the subject?
The USMC had been in constant service since 1900. Many of the regt and higher officers were WWI veterans. The USMC showed it's quality at Wake, In the Philippines and in Aug 42 in the Solomons. (less then 11 months into the war)The USMC conducted major opposed landings from 1943 on (different Marine divisions often the first combat experiance for the unit as a whole but showing the quality of the USMC )
So yes it is clear that a USMC recruit was better then many "veterans" of other forces.

(but I am baised USMC 1973-1977)

[uhlan]

This would be my edited ratings.

If feel these are not as guilty of being culturally stereotypical. The ones being used now take away from the games diversity and limit it's scope of game play by making anything other than the favored five (US-USMC/UK-ComW/GER/USSR/JAP) a waste of time.

// LEADER EXPERIENCE
// 1939 to 1945
{60,65,70,75,70,65,60}, //GERMAN
{60,65,65,65,65,65,60}, //FINNISH
{40,45,45,45,40,40,35}, //ITALIAN
{40,40,45,45,40,40,35}, //RUMANIAN
{40,40,45,45,45,40,35}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,75,75,70,70,65}, //JAPANESE
{50,50,55,55,55,55,60}, //FRENCH
{50,50,55,55,60,65,65}, //BRITISH
{40,40,45,45,45,50,50}, //BELGIUM
{40,40,45,45,45,50,50}, //DUTCH
{45,45,50,55,60,65,65}, //POLISH
{35,40,45,50,55,60,65}, //SOVIET
{45,45,45,50,55,60,60}, //US ARMY
{45,45,50,55,60,65,70}, //US MARINE
{35,35,35,35,35,40,40}, //CHINESE
{40,45,45,45,45,50,50}, //GREEK
{40,40,45,45,45,45,45}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,45,45,50,55,50}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{40,45,50,55,60,65,65}, //CANADA
{40,45,50,55,60,60,60}, //INDIA
{40,45,50,55,60,65,65}, //ANZAC
{40,40,45,50,50,55,60}, //FREE FRENCH
{35,35,35,35,40,45,45}, //COMMUNIST CHINA
{45,45,45,45,50,50,50}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{40,40,45,45,45,50,50}, //PHILIPINNES
{45,50,50,50,50,50,50}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{45,50,50,50,50,50,50}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{40,40,40,40,40,40,35}, //BULGARIA

// LEADER MORALE
// 1939 to 1945
{65,70,75,75,70,65,55}, //GERMAN
{70,70,70,65,65,65,60}, //FINNISH
{40,40,40,40,35,30,30}, //ITALIAN
{40,40,45,40,35,30,30}, //RUMANIAN
{40,40,45,45,40,35,30}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,70,70,70}, //JAPANESE
{40,40,40,40,40,45,50}, //FRENCH
{50,55,60,65,65,65,60}, //BRITISH
{40,40,40,45,45,50,50}, //BELGIUM
{40,40,40,45,45,50,50}, //DUTCH
{55,55,55,55,60,65,60}, //POLISH
{35,40,45,50,55,60,65}, //SOVIET
{40,40,45,50,55,60,60}, //US ARMY
{45,50,55,60,65,70,70}, //US MARINE
{35,35,35,40,40,40,40}, //CHINESE
{50,55,60,55,55,60,60}, //GREEK
{40,40,40,45,45,50,50}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,40,45,50,55,60}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{50,55,60,65,65,65,60}, //CANADA
{45,45,45,50,50,50,50}, //INDIA
{65,65,65,65,65,65,65}, //ANZAC
{40,40,40,45,45,50,55}, //FREE FRENCH
{35,35,35,40,40,45,50}, //COMMUNIST CHINA
{45,45,40,45,50,50,50}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{35,40,40,45,50,55,50}, //PHILIPINNES
{45,45,45,45,45,45,45}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{40,40,40,40,40,40,40}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{40,40,40,40,40,35,30}, //BULGARIA

// TROOPS EXPERIENCE
// 1939 to 1945
{60,65,70,75,70,65,60}, //GERMAN
{60,65,70,65,65,65,60}, //FINNISH
{40,40,45,45,40,35,35}, //ITALIAN
{40,40,45,45,40,40,35}, //RUMANIAN
{40,40,40,45,45,40,35}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,65,65,60}, //JAPANESE
{50,50,45,40,40,35,35}, //FRENCH
{50,50,55,60,65,65,60}, //BRITISH
{40,40,40,40,40,45,45}, //BELGIUM
{40,40,40,40,40,45,45}, //DUTCH
{45,45,45,50,55,60,60}, //POLISH
{40,40,45,50,55,60,60}, //SOVIET
{40,40,40,45,50,55,60}, //US ARMY
{45,45,50,55,60,65,65}, //US MARINE
{35,35,35,35,35,40,40}, //CHINESE
{40,40,45,45,45,50,50}, //GREEK
{40,40,40,40,40,45,45}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,45,45,50,55,50}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{50,50,50,55,60,65,60}, //CANADA
{40,45,50,55,55,60,60}, //INDIA
{50,50,50,55,60,65,60}, //ANZAC
{35,40,40,45,45,50,55}, //FREE FRENCH
{35,35,35,35,40,45,45}, //COMMUNIST CHINA
{40,40,45,45,45,50,55}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{35,35,40,40,45,50,50}, //PHILIPINNES
{45,45,45,50,45,45,45}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{35,35,35,35,35,35,35}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{40,40,40,40,40,40,35}, //BULGARIA

// TROOPS MORALE
// 1939 to 1945
{65,70,75,70,65,60,55}, //GERMAN
{70,70,70,65,65,65,60}, //FINNISH
{40,40,45,40,35,35,30}, //ITALIAN
{40,40,45,40,35,35,35}, //RUMANIAN
{40,40,40,45,45,40,35}, //HUNGARIAN
{70,70,70,70,70,70,70}, //JAPANESE
{50,45,40,45,40,35,30}, //FRENCH
{55,55,55,60,60,60,60}, //BRITISH
{40,40,40,45,45,50,50}, //BELGIUM
{40,40,40,45,45,50,50}, //DUTCH
{60,55,45,50,55,60,60}, //POLISH
{40,40,45,50,55,60,65}, //SOVIET
{40,40,40,45,50,55,60}, //US ARMY
{45,50,55,60,65,70,70}, //US MARINE
{35,35,35,35,35,40,40}, //CHINESE
{60,60,55,50,55,60,60}, //GREEK
{40,40,40,45,45,50,50}, //NORWEIGAN
{40,40,45,45,50,55,60}, //YUGOSLAVIAN
{55,55,55,55,60,60,60}, //CANADA
{45,45,45,50,50,55,55}, //INDIA
{55,55,55,60,60,60,60}, //ANZAC
{40,40,40,45,45,50,55}, //FREE FRENCH
{35,35,35,35,40,45,50}, //COMMUNIST CHINA
{35,35,40,40,45,45,50}, //CZECHOSLOVAKIA
{40,40,35,35,40,40,45}, //PHILIPINNES
{40,45,45,50,45,45,45}, //NATIONALIST SPAIN
{35,35,35,35,35,35,35}, //REPUBLICAN SPAIN
{40,40,40,40,40,35,30}, //BULGARIA