Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:
Whether its 12% or 24% doesn't matter. After 3 squares in a panzer corps an inf div's readiness should be *0*, and it sure as heck shouldn't contribute to any fighting in the 4th and 5th squares of movement/combat. Some are suggesting the penalty be this or be that, arguing over the size of the readiness penalty or when it should be applied. However, this misses the point, because our real problem is this: infantry divisions CANNOT MOVE AS FAST AS MOTORIZED. No one disputes this so far. Inf shouldn't even be in a pz corps after 5 squares of movement, because in a real-world situation the inf div's assets are strung out along the roads in the first 3 squares of movement, and are NOWHERE NEAR the pz corps
that is fighting on its 5th square of movement.
33%, 12%, 26%, 13%, NONE of these are correct answers. The correct answer is 0%.
...
Unfortunately, as long as we have inf divs in panzer corps contributing to an attack in the last, 5th, square of a pz corps movement, I think there is a problem.
I have to disagree here Ed. German army divisions, unmotorized, covered huge distances during the opening phases of Barbarossa. At times they average 30 Km or 20 Miles per day for extended periods, although only in light combat when doing this. I haven't been able to find my references regarding this, or I would have posted more already, but I know these numbers were reached. There was at least one case where an infantry division covered 50 km or 30 miles in a 24 hour period. I know this can be done by fresh troops, with equiment - we did plenty of it in the Marine Corps <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> . In combat this could not be done, but when you have panzers leading the way the combat will be limited (I will write later in this message on this issue).
We can calculate some of this ourselves. The Germans reached Smolensk on July 16 or so, which is somewhere around 350 to 400 miles from the frontier. This is on the 25th day of the campaign. The infantry units did not reach the area for a few more days. Using 30 days for the infantry and 360 miles, this is 12 miles per day. The infantry did not get to use trucks in general - they walked every step of the way, with horses pulling their supplies. They fought combat along the way, including closing the encirclements created by the Panzers. This is an average of just over 4 hexes of movement for 4 weeks in WIR terms. Could they do it long-term. Yes but they did wear down over time.
As you say, the shells are the big part of the problem here. Typically, a panzer unit did not just take off into the rear of the Soviets without any security to hold open the penetration (except in specific situations). If there were threats to their rear, units would be broken off to fight the threat, although the units could still be cut off., but generally for short periods. In WIR, every unit is considered to stay together without a chance of splitting them off. Tie this in with the defensive issues of "empty" hexes which would typically have somebody there. To me, this makes the current situation of weak infantry, which would be most strongly effected by all of this, as reasonable as totally ineffective infantry, which is too excessive.
Since the total strength after the end of the 5th hex is so low, it seems as realistic as anything. One other thing on movement and readiness. Equipment that moves a lot will lose a lot of readiness, as things break down, fuel gets used up, etc. Infantry marching long distances will suffer much lower readiness loss. For infantry, some men will fall out but not as much as the loss of equipment, and food is not as big an issue over the short term as fuel. Hungry men can and did keep marching, but the machines can't go without fuel, period. Thus, movement affects on panzers should be much higher than on infantry, while the combat affects should be the opposite, or maybe the same for both types. This would more accurately reflect the problems infantry would have over a 5 hex distance, as the movement wouldn't hurt them, it would be any combat that occurs along the way.
