CleverDevils2 AAR

[Jimmer]

Can someone else check the log? I believe Austria did not gain all of the PP that he should have on his turn. He started at 36, won 2PP, lost 1PP, and ended at 36. Something fishy going on, or else I just can't fine the other changes. It would help if the same battle didn't show up multiple times in the log.

[NeverMan]

This is one game that Marshall should be playing in so he can see all of these bugs. It's just one after the other after the other.

[Jimmer]

Russia and France negotiated a "planned withdraw". Since Russia lost both leaders to the game's rule error (unstacking the corps with a leader on it loses the leader), they agreed to play it ias if France had chosen Assault, Russia chose Withdraw, and Kutusov (a 3 strategic leader) was leading the Russian force. France asked me to make the roll, which I did (with my son watching).
 
The roll was a 1 on a six-sider. For a brief instant, I couldn't remember whether that was good or bad. But, the end result is that Russia withdrew successfully.
 
Now, we can't totally correct for it: They should technically be one area further inside Russia than they are now. But, it seemed like a good compromise.
 
France will return the two captured leaders during his land movement phase.

[Jimmer]

I agree, Neverman. I don't know if he has the time, but I think the next one, we should invite him, assuming any one person drops out. I'm cruising for a rematch, though.

[Jimmer]

By the way, an interesting situation has presented itself in this game. I'll be posting this in a new thread, but this is where it comes from: Turkey had one of his feudal corps surrender in a siege combat.
 
Now, the reason it is interesting is this: What happens in December?

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: Jimmer
Out of curiosity, what happened to the cossack? It should have been in the second image you posted. Unless Russia took the cossack as a lost factor prior to the 3rd round?

Never mind. I misread the stats.

[delatbabel]

Are there any Russian / Austrian / Prussian forces left on the map?  What's the overall strategic situation?  I would have thought that a heavy defeat against the Russians like the last one, after the heavy defeat they already suffered at the hands of the Turks would mean it's pretty much all over for the allies at least in this war.  Prussia seems to be going through the motions of defending odd cities with 1 factor garrisons.

[Marshall Ellis]

Hey guys:
 
In between flights here.
What is going on?
Did you guys upgrade to 1.04 yet?
 

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

Are there any Russian / Austrian / Prussian forces left on the map?  What's the overall strategic situation?  I would have thought that a heavy defeat against the Russians like the last one, after the heavy defeat they already suffered at the hands of the Turks would mean it's pretty much all over for the allies at least in this war.  Prussia seems to be going through the motions of defending odd cities with 1 factor garrisons.

The "war" was over before it started. This game was killed the minute everyone left Prussia alone to fight France in the beginning and amazingly enough Prussia did it voluntarily without help. After that it was ALL just going through the motions.

It's like watching a football game (american) where one team just keeps fumbling the ball. The result: the other team can't help but win.

Marshall: I'm pretty sure all or most of us are on 1.04.x

[AGT4533]

I recollect a discussion a few months ago about the merits of continuing the game with Prussia and Austria defeated separately, leaving Russia essentially alone against France. I recall the decision was to wait and see how the first big Russia/France battle went to see if a miracle would happen. Well, we got our answer this turn - there are no miracles out there.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: AGT4533

I recollect a discussion a few months ago about the merits of continuing the game with Prussia and Austria defeated separately, leaving Russia essentially alone against France. I recall the decision was to wait and see how the first big Russia/France battle went to see if a miracle would happen. Well, we got our answer this turn - there are no miracles out there.

No, it appears not.

1. I got tired of waiting for this game to end so I thought I would speed things up a bit by simply attacking the French instead of retreating, which is what I normally would have done.

2. I also picked a "go big or go home" chit against Nappy. Didn't turn out well for me.

We can officially call this game whenver you guys want.

[Jimmer]

Prussia made a huge mistake before the game even started: He declared war on France. Furthermore, he did it without talking to his allies.
 
However, in his defence, he is used to games where everybody starts out with a preexisting war, so he was expecting every other power to do the same thing. Plus, we used the GAP program. Thus, there was no way (that we thought of) to have a pre-game diplomatic time in which to negotiate these things.
 
Object lesson number 1: Don't use the GAP directly and only once. It can be used to set up a game and show who plays what. But, then those players should negotiate whether they want to be allies, declare wars, etc. Once decided, use the GAP again, but this time include any DoWs that are desired.
 
From there, it went downhill fast. Neither Austria, Russia, or Great Britian was in position to do anything to help. With winter happening, Austria and Russia couldn't even REACH the theatre, let alone with enough force to actually make a difference.
 
But, Prussia also then performed some actions that really hurt his cause. He declared war on five minor nations in the first two months of the game. Naturally, France got control of all of them, and Prussia never had a chance to take them back.
 
But, the biggest thing working against him was France. GWheelock is one of the best EIA players you'll ever see in action, and he knew exactly what to do to take advantage of the situation: Stack his forces to the roof and crush the life out of Prussia, before any other power had a chance to help out. By March, it was all over except the crying.
 
Object lesson number 2: Never start the game at war with France unless your allies agree.
 
Object lesson number 3: Big stacks kill little stacks. This is an overriding principle throughout EiA, and it was historical as well. Even though the little stack may win the combat politically, a significantly larger stack (troop count, that is) is going to do more long-term damage.
 
Object lesson number 4: Don't declare war on a minor, that is in proximity to both enemies, while you are at war with a major, unless there's a good reason (like, so you are allowed access through the country to get TO your enemy).
 
Then comes the next war: Austria. France did exactly what he should have by going to war with Austria in the dead of winter. France's extra movement point would prove critical in such a conflict.
 
But, another element entered in that really hurt the Austrians: The Russians were at this time being played by a new player (new to the game, that is). They hadn't had time to discuss diplomatic occurrences, and so when Austria called Russia to allies, Russia had not checked off the bit. So, Russia broke her alliance with the Austrians. To compound matters, Spain also declared war (as a result of Austria's call to allies).
 
Object lesson number 5: Great Britian needs to be ready at ALL times for a war with Spain. GB was not ready at all in this game at this time. She was both out of position and in need of repairs. Perfect timing by the French, to the great detriment of the allies.
 
Given the rather bleak positioning, Austria attacked Napoleon. He thought he needed a miracle (which was essentially correct), and tried to manufacture one. The results were approximately historically correct (if a few months late), except no Russians were there.
 
Object lesson number 3 is repeated here: Big stacks kill little stacks. Get used to this principle. Any EIA player will either live by it, or be killed by it (assuming his opponents understand it).
 
Object lesson number 6: Do not attack Napoleon unless you have a darned good reason. Furthermore, be prepared to have your army wiped out, if France understands the principle behind #3. It is nearly impossible to defeat Napoleon when attacking him, and he more than likely has more troops than you do, unless you can bring a LOT. But, in that case, he might just pick withdraw, and then pile up HIS guys and attack you back. France can always outnumber any army, and he'll do it with superior leadership.
 
The best parts (as France) of having people attack Napoleon are that:
 
A)  France is nearly always moving last. Thus, by attacking you are granting Naploeon three chances at your army before you can respond.
B)  France can almost always outnumber the forces of any single or two-major force opposing him. Therefore, come "strike back", you should count on being outnumbered. See A, because strike back will come in the form of two attacks in a row.
C)  France can out-leader anybody in the game, including whatever you brought against him in your attack.
 
A few months after Austria surrendered, Austria went to GB and said "I'm going to war against Turkey next month. I hope you will join us (Turkey was already at war with Russia)." Usually, it's GB doing the manipulating, but GB said "sure". After all, it seemed only a series of miracles would salvage this game for the allies.
 
That war is still being fought, with basically noise happening. A couple of decent-sized battles have happened, but not with any big consequences.
 
Unfortunately, Austria does not have the troop strength to win the war. Even with GB joining her against Turkey. Austria needs troops, but doesn't have many left after the war with France. All GB can do is take away African minors and reduce the size and stature of the Ottoman Empire. A few corps have joined battle on the mainland, though, and there are hopes that they can make a difference. The combined Austrian-Russian-British armies should normally be able to deal with Turkey. Unfortunately, Russia cannot commit wholeheartedly, because he is still at war with France. And, Austria lost a good portion of her army against France. As did GB.
 
Which brings us up to the present. The two things remaining are that #3 and #6 bear repeating. Both are presently showing themselves heartily. Russia attacked Napoleon and was skewered. Austria is spread out in Turkey and Turkey also spread out this month. Thus, #3 should be tested again in July.

[NeverMan]

Well, like I said, I attacked France because I am tired of playing EiANW and rather than drag the war out I was taking the "go big or go home" approach. It certainly wasn't a strategical mistake on my part, it was perfectly intentional.

For all intents and purposes the game is over. Essentially all I did was speed up the inevitable, there was no chance of anyone but France winning this game from the beginning and any chance of anything changing rested mostly on the large Ru-Fr battle, which is now done, thank god.

It also doesn't help that EiANW is unbalanced in France's favor, but that is a different story.

So, can we call this one or what?

I learned one more thing from this:

#1: Don't become a replacement player unless you know EXACTLY what is going on... I do feel that I was slightly mislead when deciding to join this game.

[gwheelock]

Ok; we've had Prussia's and France's land turns.

Prussia foraged & lost the 1 I in Konigsberg & 1I Thorn (garrisons)
Prussia successfully foraged the 2I in Breslau

On the French turn, 1 French corp made a successful siege
of Breslau - casulties 2 Prussian I

[gwheelock]

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

Are there any Russian / Austrian / Prussian forces left on the map?  What's the overall strategic situation?  I would have thought that a heavy defeat against the Russians like the last one, after the heavy defeat they already suffered at the hands of the Turks would mean it's pretty much all over for the allies at least in this war.  Prussia seems to be going through the motions of defending odd cities with 1 factor garrisons.

Here is a short synopsis of the main theatres of the war:

As of the June 1807 Econ phase; there are NO Prussian factors on the map
and ALL Prussian cities are garrisoned.

There are Russian and Austrian factors on the map.

There are 11I, 4C in the army in Grodno; there is 1 CK along with a (presumably) full Danish corp in Minsk

[gwheelock]

There is 16I in Moscow, 1 I in St Pete

[gwheelock]

There is 9 I in Odessa & 1 CK in Ochkov
(the garrison in Kamenetz is Turk)

[gwheelock]

There is 1 M in Stavropol and 1 M in Astrakhan
There is 1I + 1 corp of unknown strength in Kutais

[gwheelock]

On the Austrian front; there are 3 corp (max of 24 factors) with Charles in Ruschuk
(the Cav-symboled corp in Nish is the Austrian Light-Infantry ... it lost
either 1 or 2 I as casulties)
there is 1 corp in Sofia, 1 Austrian + 1 (British loaned to Austria) Swede corp in Salonika
and 1 Austrian corp in Athens plus scattered 1 factor garrisons

[gwheelock]

There are 2 British corp in "Area170" (west of Gratz), 2 corp + Wellington
in Trieste and 1 Swede corp in Zara