Map Maker Beta ...

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Mraah
I was wondering if maps made with MM can be used by others who do not have it.

Question ... On your other computer (the cpu lacking MM) can you load the map up in the Scene Editor? If the editor can't read it then Pck probably can't. It might narrow down your problem.

Java doesn't run on that machine so the editor doesn't work. That's what I was trying and apperently not.

ORIGINAL: Mraah

Also, look in the folder for your map ... there is a file called MEDIA.XML ... This points to resources, or links, to the MEDIA/MODS folder ... Links that would be dead on another computer without MM.

Yikes! It has paths to a whole lot of mods things that aren't used. I might try and edit myself and see what happens.

ORIGINAL: Mraah
Also, regarding the railroad tracks ... I have redone the RR Tracks but you'll probably have to add them in manually through scene editor and add them to the media xml.

I'll see if I can. Thanks.

[Stridor]

Because it is impossible for people without the MM beta installed to run maps made with the MM, I have made some updates to the MM so that any map designers who want to share maps with others can now do so.

The MM now generates a report at the end of the build phase detaling any 3rd party mods which were used to make the map and which will also need to be distributed with the base map directory so that the map package will work on another PCK install. There is also a txt file called "3rd Party Mods" which also gets generated in the map dir to remind the designer (or inform the user - if they can't get the map to work).

This brings the MM up to 0.9e. I will post the update to Post #1 shortly.

[Mobius]

I was able to use my new MM map on a system without MM by hand editing the media xml. I deleted all resource id= labels with a path to a Mod since I don't use any.

Then I copied over to the Editor folder 3 files from the system with MM.
label.x
empty.x
transparent.dds

It loads fine, but haven't run a game on it yet.

[Stridor]

Ya, you can do it by hand but it is a pain. The new MM just does all the grunt and xref work for you [:D]

[Mobius]

I don't know if you addressed this in your latest versions but could you do something with the mini map? It's just a copy of the key color map. If it could be the actual terrain color or some hybrid it would be more pleasing to view.
I used my paint program to improve it.

[Stridor]

ORIGINAL: Mobius

I don't know if you addressed this in your latest versions but could you do something with the mini map? It's just a copy of the key color map. If it could be the actual terrain color or some hybrid it would be more pleasing to view.
I used my paint program to improve it.

Good idea, but quite difficult to implement.

If you want a really easy way to make nice looking minimaps do this.

Load the main map up into scenedit. Select Overhead view. You will need to zoom in a bit with the mouse wheel and then tilt the map until it is squared away. Next take a SS. In your paint program crop it to 160x160 and save as "minimap.png". Takes all of about 30 seconds. Here is an example I did for my tutorial map, took really no time at all.

[Mobius]

Thanks, John, I'll try that next map.

While I was editing the scene file of the MM map I noticed that hasHeight="true" for all terrain types like roads and dirt. Matrix generated scene files have this as hasHeight="false" for their terrain types.

Also note that the z-rotation is in radians not degrees. I had a heck of a time lining up my railroad line thinking it was degrees.

[rickier65]

I installed and ran the .9e update. Since I had already spent quite a while alligning my structures in SceneEdit, I first backed up everything from my map directory, then ran MM .9e, got the report, then restored all of the previous files.

Thanks, I was expecting to have to go through by hand and determine by hand what was needed.

Thanks
Rick

[Mobius]

On that mini map. Maybe if the colors on the main map were translated to some standard earth and grass tones and then reduced to mini map size. Leave the house and road color as is. Turn anything not known or special to gray. It would be more distinct than the real map as roads and houses would stand out.

I wish Koios had made 4 mini maps rotated 90 degrees from each other and had a selection in the scenario sml for which mini map to use. Then the scenario designer could determine which direction was north by selecting the mini map. Once the game begins we all forget which way is N or S. But when starting a game it would be nice not to have Russians entering from the west and Germans from the east.

[Mobius]

I've had to hand edit some things and have found that item rotation is yaw and is in degrees (0 degrees is down). But texture rotation (z-rotation) is in radians.

[rickier65]

I've finally finished the first draft of the Squad Leader scenario Hedgehog of Piepsk(Scen #4) . This is an infantry only scenario (not AFV's). And I haven't tried it out yet to see what tweaks are needed.

Before posting it here I have a few tasks:

1. Play through to make sure it everything works and get a feel for balance (since I'm pretty familiar with it at this point, I probably won't be good jusdge of balance.

2. Identify and package mods needed (I used some structures from Saf_Biffa mods).

3. Package map (this is a new map built using MM 0.9d based on SL mapboards 2,3,and 4 (arranged slightly different from hill 621).

4. Create template for map, so that it can be used in random battles.

I'm hoping after I do step one that someone will volunteer to check it out so that I can get some outside comments though my main objective is to model as closely as possible the original Squad Leader scenario.

I've attached a screenshot from the German side looking across the village twoards the Northeast.

Rick

[Mobius]

I've discovered a nasty problem. If you give certain key map colors a texture it will cause a CTD if in the setup you try to place a vehicle or gun on it.
I first noticed this when I gave a texture to the trench color. When placing a gun or tank in a gun pit I got a CTD. Removing the texture solved the problem Next I tested the foxhole terrain. I had given that a texture too. While no problem occured when placed infantry in foxholes a CTD resulted when I placed a tank on the green foxhole area.

I haven't tested to see what happens if I give textures to fence or other special terrain areas.

[z1812]

Hi All,

I have been following the Map Maker development with interest. It seems you are about complete.

I am wondering how accessible and user friendly it will be to the average player. Is it intuitive? Is it labour intensive?

I am very curious to know what you who have been working on it think.

Regards John

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Mobius

I've discovered a nasty problem. If you give certain key map colors a texture it will cause a CTD if in the setup you try to place a vehicle or gun on it.
I first noticed this when I gave a texture to the trench color. When placing a gun or tank in a gun pit I got a CTD. Removing the texture solved the problem Next I tested the foxhole terrain. I had given that a texture too. While no problem occured when placed infantry in foxholes a CTD resulted when I placed a tank on the green foxhole area.

I haven't tested to see what happens if I give textures to fence or other special terrain areas.

Was the crash in the game? or in the scenario editor? I'll check my Piepsk map, I think I might have a keymap color I can check.

Rick

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Rick

ORIGINAL: Mobius
I've discovered a nasty problem. If you give certain key map colors a texture it will cause a CTD if in the setup you try to place a vehicle or gun on it.
I first noticed this when I gave a texture to the trench color. When placing a gun or tank in a gun pit I got a CTD. Removing the texture solved the problem Next I tested the foxhole terrain. I had given that a texture too. While no problem occured when placed infantry in foxholes a CTD resulted when I placed a tank on the green foxhole area.

I haven't tested to see what happens if I give textures to fence or other special terrain areas.

Was the crash in the game? or in the scenario editor? I'll check my Piepsk map, I think I might have a keymap color I can check.
Rick

It was in the game. It was fixed by removing the texture from the Trench color.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: z1812

Hi All,

I have been following the Map Maker development with interest. It seems you are about complete.

I am wondering how accessible and user friendly it will be to the average player. Is it intuitive? Is it labour intensive?

I am very curious to know what you who have been working on it think.

Regards John

I'm not entirely sure I can answer. I've been playing with MM since Stridor let me try it out quite a while back. Prior to that, I had made an effort at map making using other public domain tools, but basicly was getting nowhere.

The MM tool brings a ot of things togheter, and makes it much much easier to build a custom map.

But it isn't without some work. I've seen what, and how quicky Stridor could whip up a map, and I'm nowhere near that capable, but I'm a pretty basic kind of guy, and by following the steps closely, I could work my way through them. Stridor (and Mraah as well) seem to be able to do much better and quicker. Looks like Mobius has also been using it. (and he seems to be faster at it than I am as well).

MM seems to be pretty comprehensive, and one of the things that is really useful is being able to see the effect of different textures, and different texture order in just minutes.

One thing it might not be so good at is placing building structures. It's pretty tough to automate random building placement, and expect it to conform to what you had "envisioned" .

But like I said, following the turorial Stridor put together, I think it makes it possible for anyone. ANd if you're interest is in a random map, not a map of a specific historic location, then that makes it perhaps fairly straight forward.

I know I would not have been able to make a map for the SL Piepsk scenario without the MM tool.

I don't know what plans are for making it available to folks. I hope this is done - I think the more folks making maps, the better. But then I don't know what goes into those kind of decisions.

Rick

[Mobius]

now that I'm looking at the maps in more detail and not just for tactical positions I don't particularly like the sun being at 9:00 am all the time (per the shadows).

[rickier65]

NOTE for MM scenario builders.

I finished v1 of Piepsk (I'll start a new thread with download).

To test the package, I did a clean install of PCK, then installed 1.01 gold patch.

I also installed the JSGME mod manager (using Cougar's instructions).

I put the mods called for in the 3rd Party mods.txt (which was a nice add-on Stridor).

However, when i installed the game on my clean machine, it hung up about the 3rd bar in while "Loading Interface" in PCK.

I did some looking at files, and it appears that three files were missing from the Editor director, that are needed. I'm not sure what patch they were installed with. But for a clean install I had to add: Transparency.dds, label.x, and empty.x to the Editor directory. (I did this with the Scenario install so folks wont have to deal with it. for this scenario).

Just thought I'd give a heads up.

Rick

[Mobius]

Is there a way to get the label to face the viewer all the time? I've tried hand coding but nothing works.

[Stridor]

ORIGINAL: Rick

NOTE for MM scenario builders.

I finished v1 of Piepsk (I'll start a new thread with download).

To test the package, I did a clean install of PCK, then installed 1.01 gold patch.

I also installed the JSGME mod manager (using Cougar's instructions).

I put the mods called for in the 3rd Party mods.txt (which was a nice add-on Stridor).

However, when i installed the game on my clean machine, it hung up about the 3rd bar in while "Loading Interface" in PCK.

I did some looking at files, and it appears that three files were missing from the Editor director, that are needed. I'm not sure what patch they were installed with. But for a clean install I had to add: Transparency.dds, label.x, and empty.x to the Editor directory. (I did this with the Scenario install so folks wont have to deal with it. for this scenario).

Just thought I'd give a heads up.

Rick

Rick MM 0.9E apart from generating a mod list for you will also copy the needed files into the map dir. Because you restored your map dir made from and earlier MM version those files won't be there. Any new maps made with 0.9E+ will fix that issue. Alternatively the next PCK patch should include those files. Either way it is now fixed.