OT World Cup 2010 South Africa

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Tullius - one problem with that comment, Rooney came into this tournament as an heir apparent to Pele, Maradona, Zidane etc i.e. a player who wins matches, someone who conjeures something from nothing, someone who makes the difference. He was mentioned alongside players such as Messi as one of the players most likely to make this tournament his.....

Warspite, Rooney (or Messi or Pele, in fact I mentioned one of the best strikers in the 90s: George Weah) can do nothing if the midfielders don't do their job. It is NOT the striker's fault in such cases. I haven't seen a lot of decent balls delivered to Rooney in this WC [;)] No midfield = NO game. Unless you use the old and prehistoric game played in the Isles (= UK) in the past and in some Scandinavian states (Norway). Long passes from the defenders that is (a pure LOTTERY that is). A rustic and primitive approach if we had to mention one (but if you choose it, Crouch should be your man)... In fact the Italians use this tactic a lot too (guess why most of football fans don't like the Italian style) [:D]

You should be blaming first the midfielders. AND then Rooney, methinks. He is good, but he is not superman... In fact, having Messi in your squad would not have changed anything...

Warspite1

I do blame the midfielders - which as a unit was woeful in all four games.

But Rooney is not some hapless old fashioned centre forward that if you don't pass him the ball with perfect deliveries he never gets to show what he can do. He has been (for his club) outstanding this season and is a highly talented footballer.

Takes just two stats:

-Rooney has lost the ball by being tackled in possession 32 times, more often than any other player at the 2010 World Cup.
-Rooney completed only 55 per cent of his passes for England against Germany - the lowest rate in the game.

Service is not to blame for either of those stats; Rooney was a footballer totally out of sorts at the World Cup and yet despite this, Capello only thought to take him off when he was clearly injured against Algeria. What the hell happened?
Dammed if I know....

[Dixie]

Even when Rooney did get the ball passed to him, how many times did it get away from him after a poor touch?

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Dixie

Arse, bugger etc.  It's been **** and we're going home! 

Hopefully this will prove to be the end for most of the current squad, it's time to do what Germany have done and move on to the next generation and the U-21s.

but the U-21s lost to Germany 4:0 last year! [:D]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Dixie

Arse, bugger etc.  It's been **** and we're going home! 

Hopefully this will prove to be the end for most of the current squad, it's time to do what Germany have done and move on to the next generation and the U-21s.

but the U-21s lost to Germany 4:0 last year! [:D]

Warspite1

Yep. This was the point Sir Trevor Brooking was making - we do not have sufficient quality players coming through to replace the "Golden Generation" (who the hell coined that phrase? - bet their somewhat embarrassed now!!).

[Historiker]

Chapeau to the English here and the English team. Really fair sportsmen!

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Dixie

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

IMHO England played the best so far and they were simply unlucky (and they suffered from terrible referee decision - their 2:2 goal was regular)...

Really? I'm going to disagree, a lot. We played well for 10-15 minutes after our first goal. The other 75 minutes we were poor.
Matty Upson should not be anywhere near an international team.
Stevie Gerrard is not a left winger.
Frank Lampard hasn't had a good game for England in years.
Wayne Rooney just didn't turn up.
Gareth Barry is not a defensive midfielder.
Glenn Johnson can't defend.
John Terry can't run.

Only David James and Ashley Cole can really go home with any pride. The U21 squad is pretty good though.

I am impartial here... [:D]


What I saw was the best performance England made in WorldCup 2010 South Africa thus far - I didn't say that England played good - I only wrote that they played best thus far (i.e. of all four rather bad games that they had)... [8D]

But the England was also very very unlucky...


Let me explain:

#1
Germany was much better at the start and they deservedly lead with 2:0 in first 30 minutes of the game.

#2
Then the England woke up and Germans made mistake of pulling back (they failed to totally dismantle England).

First England lowered the score to 2:1 and then it should have been 2:2 (wrongly disallowed goal - huge mistake by referees)!

#3
In 2nd half England was still attacking and they were rather close to equalize up to around 65 minutes of play when Germany lead with 3:1 and then 4:1.


What could have happened if it was 2:2 at the half time?

Perhaps England would not attack so recklessly and allow swift counter strikes by Germany at 67th minute (and 3:1 that ended everything)?

We can only guess... but the important thing is that stolen 2:2 equalizer robbed England of their chance!


Leo "Apollo11"

[frank1970]

You might be right, but England was playing well only about 10 minutes, and quite good 20 more in the second half.
this means, that Germany was better or equal to the English for about 80minutes of the match.
The English would have lost, there is imho no doubt about that.

The problem for the English now is, that the players and the team manager might use the not given goal as an excuse for their bad playing and so nothing will change. And that would be very sad, as I think England should be one of the best teams in the world. Now it isn´t a team at all, but a group of players.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: Frank
The problem for the English now is, that the players and the team manager might use the not given goal as an excuse for their bad playing and so nothing will change.

Well, Fabio Capello said exactly that in the press conference [:D] The problem is NO one believes him... Not even the most hardcore England fan... So it's rather surrealistic.

They should bring the cameras. Yes or yes [;)]

[castor troy]

Hmm, not sure England´s potential 2:2 really was a goal. Looking closesly, I seriously doubt it was one. [:D]

There is a goal camera most of the times nowadays, problem only is, the referees aren´t allowed to look at a monitor to check their decisions. So while the referees are wrong now and then, 70000 fans in the stadium and the players usually get 7 replays on the big screens in the stadium to confirm the referees were wrong.

[LoBaron]

[:D]

Clearly NOT behind the line.

[Speedysteve]

Hi guys,
 
England were a total joke. I knwo the disallowed goal was clearly a massive Official error and the principal stands that it should have been given and that Technology should now be used in Footbal. However, that shouldn't disguise the fact we were an atrocious team the whole tournament from  back to front. The only teams who performed worse vs potential was France and then Italy

[moonraker65]

Quite agree. Whether Capello stays or goes it's time for a serious rethink now. The whole P L thing where English players were supposed to learn from their foreign counterparts is shown to be a sham and not only that as was mentioned above it's now left us woefully short of new talent coming through. Stark times ahead I think.

[Dixie]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Dixie

Arse, bugger etc.  It's been **** and we're going home! 

Hopefully this will prove to be the end for most of the current squad, it's time to do what Germany have done and move on to the next generation and the U-21s.

but the U-21s lost to Germany 4:0 last year! [:D]

Warspite1

Yep. This was the point Sir Trevor Brooking was making - we do not have sufficient quality players coming through to replace the "Golden Generation" (who the hell coined that phrase? - bet their somewhat embarrassed now!!).

Not all of the next generation of players were actually in the U21 team that lost. Joe Hart is a better keeper than Scott Loach (although Scott was at the mighty Lincoln City so he gets bonus points.)

GK: Joe Hart
Def: Ashley Cole, Michael Dawson, Ledley King, Glen Johnson
Mid: Adam Johnson, Owen Hargreaves, Joe Cole, Steven Gerrard, James Milner
Att: Wayne Rooney (or Peter Crouch)

Some of the current squad are good enough to carry on, or in some cases the alternatives or so poor that there's no other option. However, England managers need to realise that no matter who the player is that when they aren't playing well they get dropped. Until we find a good holding midfielder of a similar ability as Owen Hargreaves (who I really hope gets fit soon) we're stuck playing with Garteh Barry there.


The goal masked the fact that we were terrible and Germany were good, it was like watching the Chuckle Brothers in central defence [:@] I wonder how much Ozil's valuation has gone up after this tournament?

[castor troy]

what English players really have are good looking wifes/gf. Well Cole had (is he divorced already?) and also Crouch got a quite good looking one. They showed more of them on German TV but I couldn´t remember more (although there were many more good looking ones). Not comparable to the German players´ wifes/gf (Schweinsteiger´s as an exception comes to mind)! [:D]

Besides all the money they earn...

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: castor troy

So while the referees are wrong now and then, 70000 fans in the stadium and the players usually get 7 replays on the big screens in the stadium to confirm the referees were wrong.

Nope... the stadium screens never show the "suspicious" / "controversial" situations... this is carefully screened (so far I think that FIFA only once objected that one single not allowed - in other words "suspicious" / "controversial" situation was showed so far - it was Tevez's goal in Mexico - Argentina match)...

Thus people on stadiums are not seeing on the stadium screens what we see on our TVs regarding replays!


Leo "Apollo11"

[jonreb31]

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: castor troy

So while the referees are wrong now and then, 70000 fans in the stadium and the players usually get 7 replays on the big screens in the stadium to confirm the referees were wrong.

Nope... the stadium screens never show the "suspicious" / "controversial" situations... this is carefully screened (so far I think that FIFA only once objected that one single not allowed - in other words "suspicious" / "controversial" situation was showed so far - it was Tevez's goal in Mexico - Argentina match)...

Thus people on stadiums are not seeing on the stadium screens what we see on our TVs regarding replays!


Leo "Apollo11"

I guess that could be why there are never any riots.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: castor troy

So while the referees are wrong now and then, 70000 fans in the stadium and the players usually get 7 replays on the big screens in the stadium to confirm the referees were wrong.

Nope... the stadium screens never show the "suspicious" / "controversial" situations... this is carefully screened (so far I think that FIFA only once objected that one single not allowed - in other words "suspicious" / "controversial" situation was showed so far - it was Tevez's goal in Mexico - Argentina match)...

Thus people on stadiums are not seeing on the stadium screens what we see on our TVs regarding replays!


Leo "Apollo11"

well, in the German Bundesliga they are and also in the Champions League for example. And the Austrian commentary said the fans were aware that the English "goal" actually was a goal so I asumed it´s the same for the WC.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

ORIGINAL: castor troy

So while the referees are wrong now and then, 70000 fans in the stadium and the players usually get 7 replays on the big screens in the stadium to confirm the referees were wrong.

Nope... the stadium screens never show the "suspicious" / "controversial" situations... this is carefully screened (so far I think that FIFA only once objected that one single not allowed - in other words "suspicious" / "controversial" situation was showed so far - it was Tevez's goal in Mexico - Argentina match)...

Thus people on stadiums are not seeing on the stadium screens what we see on our TVs regarding replays!

well, in the German Bundesliga they are and also in the Champions League for example.

This is FIFA and not UEFA... [;)]

BTW, I also think that they "filter" what they show on stadium big screens for "Champions League"... there would surely be riots if some "suspicious" / "controversial" situations are showed...


Leo "Apollo11"

[TulliusDetritus]

Apollo, I think they showed these replays yesterday and everyone in the stadiums could see them. That's why the day after FIFA says "don't show these images [again]".

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Apollo11



Nope... the stadium screens never show the "suspicious" / "controversial" situations... this is carefully screened (so far I think that FIFA only once objected that one single not allowed - in other words "suspicious" / "controversial" situation was showed so far - it was Tevez's goal in Mexico - Argentina match)...

Thus people on stadiums are not seeing on the stadium screens what we see on our TVs regarding replays!

well, in the German Bundesliga they are and also in the Champions League for example.

This is FIFA and not UEFA... [;)]

BTW, I also think that they "filter" what they show on stadium big screens for "Champions League"... there would surely be riots if some "suspicious" / "controversial" situations are showed...


Leo "Apollo11"

the Champions League games I´ve been at the Allianz Arena in Munich definetely showed slow motion replays, same goes for Bundesliga games.