Research Reloaded - [DWU][WIP][beta soon] New huge research tree, new everything

[Kizucha]

Lurchis mastermind-plan, find a way to kill DW without playing: success.[:D]

[Joshwoo69]

ORIGINAL: Kizucha

Lurchis mastermind-plan, find a way to kill DW without playing: success.[:D]

True!
Stabing DWU without playing: access granted!

[lurchi]

Since I can't add the still missing components I'll keep balancing what is already there. I'll also add more tech if I think there's a need for them.

FYI: There is a strange bug that makes a few research projects vanish when you scroll down. Bugs in the txt files lead to an error message or game crash, but there is no such thing, but it could be related to something the game loads. I tried to find the cause without any luck. I even went so far to only use vanilla pics, nothing. The problem is probably related to having a lot of research projects in the weapon tech section combined with having tons of projects in general. I guess the game can't load them all at once or something. I reported it in the tech support last week, dunno when / if this gets fixed.

[Cmiller]

Have you thought about removing some components. Maybe you just have too much, you know. Perhaps you could remove some of those that are not just important right now. You can of course re-add them once Erik releases a bug fix for your problem.

[lurchi]

I did remove some components, that did not help. I also can't have too many. Right now the game crashes due to a different bug when you have 256 components while the cap is 300. [;)]

I did anything I could think of and stuff other modders came up with, nothing changes. Since there is no error in the txt files (no game crash or error message) and also none in the loaded graphics (everything replaced with vanilla) it must be a game bug.

Maybe the component bug is the culprit. Dunno.
I sure hope Elliot can fix this. [&o][&o][&o]

[Shark7]

The 300 component thing is a new feature, and I'm afraid probably one that most testers don't have the patience to go through with. After all, I only added a couple of weapons, a few wonders, and a revamped tech tree for colony tech using the default research as a base and it took me forever to do (after several revisions due to errors).

Sounds like you're the man when it comes to big research trees. All I can advise is try to catch the error logs, a save-game if possible, and keep in touch with Eric and Elliot until it gets worked out.

[DinoSaurus]

Lurchi, I have two ideas, which maybe could be interesting:

(1) Do you have implemented something like an ANTI-TRAKTOR-BEAM? This could helb to fix a special ship and push it away from it's target, depending on the ships mass... I am thinking of star destroyers... or maybe battleships at scientific stations - Would possibly fit to countermeasures

(2) Another interesting equipment would be some kind of TECH-SCANNER: If you first time met a ship with a unknown tech (and your exploration-ship has a TECH-SCANNER) you get a little (or more, depending on the scanner-level) scientific bonus according to the tech of the foreign ship. This also would be another good idea for exploration ships: For every planet discovered (maybe a new "intensive excovering" if possible, only for colonizable planets, gas giants and barren planets) you get a little bonus on e.g. desert colonization or s.th. witch fits - important: the scientific bonus should not be too big. I think this also would extend the exploration of the universe...

[:)]

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: lurchi
I sure tested though, the AI does research and use the new tech. I have Icemania for final balancing, so you can look forward to a Research Reloaded / Ai Improvement combo. I'm very sure this will be very challenging.

Yes indeed I'll need to think all of this cool new stuff through and test it out. That and my spare time is almost non-existent. I hope all will be Patient. And we'll need helpers that are passionate about balance testing in particular areas of interest ... and if you are interested don't wait just do it after lurchi releases.

[Blackstork]

The only fast, easy and soft way to integrate 3 projects into one is to apply some automation and excel lists tied to racial focuses/etc based on your excel AI mod file (which is also base for Beyond one)
Once it will be actual and RR will be released and tested, and we 3 have time for it we could build it and make it very modular so any mod update, and any game update will be easy to apply to combined mod.
Building game research queues for 50+ races in 1000 tech tree manually is so 1990, there must be some automation to ease file data generation
Btw you can copy paste research.txt as it is and it will be not hard task to extract tech data from it into excel automation.

[Hawkeye_BF]

My english is really not the best but hope its enough to communicate withe you.
I would really like to help balance testing, at moment I have alot of Time

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: Blackstork
The only fast, easy and soft way to integrate 3 projects into one is to apply some automation and excel lists tied to racial focuses/etc based on your excel AI mod file (which is also base for Beyond one)
Once it will be actual and RR will be released and tested, and we 3 have time for it we could build it and make it very modular so any mod update, and any game update will be easy to apply to combined mod.
Building game research queues for 50+ races in 1000 tech tree manually is so 1990, there must be some automation to ease file data generation
Btw you can copy paste research.txt as it is and it will be not hard task to extract tech data from it into excel automation.

No. It's not going to be fast because it's not the Excel and Race files that took the time, it was thinking about what the orders should be and why.

If you have a look in the Excel file more closely you will find:
(a) Weapons Research Order Templates for each weapon type (e.g. if you go to Tarapin you will see Human Copy). They were copied and pasted across races using the same weapons.
(b) Energy Research Order Templates (e.g. refer to the 4 Templates in the Energy Templates tab). They were copied and pasted across races using the same energy strategies.
(c) HighTech Research Order Templates, unfortunately quite a few specials here due to Wonders and Colonisation, only about half copy and paste.

Then there were special orders for racial technologies.

What took the time was developing the Templates and testing them. The copy and paste part, which could be automated, can be done in minutes anyway by referencing the Summary sheet both in the Excel file and the Race file. What I could do is automate the use of the Templates within the Excel file. Change the Template and the relevant races change in the Excel file as well. But there is no point doing this until we've tested and played with the new tech tree as the Templates will change completely.

Automating changes between an Excel file to a Race file is beyond me without investing a lot of time figuring out how to do it. But again there is a lot of copy and paste, then deal with the specials, so it won't take long.

If we automated a link between research.txt and the Excel file, I wouldn't use it, because we are going to have to *think* about how to change the orders before changing anything anyway.

With respect to research.txt I don't want to touch the Research Orders until lurch's tech tree is completed and fully tested, so the rework on the research orders should be limited, if using a mature tree.

As I keep saying, I do not have the time to do anything for a while. Nor do I think it is the right time anyway. Right from the start I've said that I will not begin AI Improvement until you and lurchi have integrated.

In short, I know you are enthusiastic, and I don't want to dampen that, but please back off. Leave the AI Improvement Mod Excel file and the changes needed to me please.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: Hawkeye_BF

My english is really not the best but hope its enough to communicate withe you.
I would really like to help balance testing, at moment I have alot of Time

Cool! Pick an area that interests you and give it a focus once lurchi provides a complete tree for the part that you are interested. All we need to do is avoid people working on the same area of balance testing.

[Blackstork]

ORIGINAL: Icemania

ORIGINAL: Blackstork
The only fast, easy and soft way to integrate 3 projects into one is to apply some automation and excel lists tied to racial focuses/etc based on your excel AI mod file (which is also base for Beyond one)
Once it will be actual and RR will be released and tested, and we 3 have time for it we could build it and make it very modular so any mod update, and any game update will be easy to apply to combined mod.
Building game research queues for 50+ races in 1000 tech tree manually is so 1990, there must be some automation to ease file data generation
Btw you can copy paste research.txt as it is and it will be not hard task to extract tech data from it into excel automation.

No. It's not going to be fast because it's not the Excel and Race files that took the time, it was thinking about what the orders should be and why.

If you have a look in the Excel file more closely you will find:
(a) Weapons Research Order Templates for each weapon type (e.g. if you go to Tarapin you will see Human Copy). They were copied and pasted across races using the same weapons.
(b) Energy Research Order Templates (e.g. refer to the 4 Templates in the Energy Templates tab). They were copied and pasted across races using the same energy strategies.
(c) HighTech Research Order Templates, unfortunately quite a few specials here due to Wonders and Colonisation, only about half copy and paste.

Then there were special orders for racial technologies.

What took the time was developing the Templates and testing them. The copy and paste part, which could be automated, can be done in minutes anyway by referencing the Summary sheet both in the Excel file and the Race file. What I could do is automate the use of the Templates within the Excel file. Change the Template and the relevant races change in the Excel file as well. But there is no point doing this until we've tested and played with the new tech tree as the Templates will change completely.

Automating changes between an Excel file to a Race file is beyond me without investing a lot of time figuring out how to do it. But again there is a lot of copy and paste, then deal with the specials, so it won't take long.

If we automated a link between research.txt and the Excel file, I wouldn't use it, because we are going to have to *think* about how to change the orders before changing anything anyway.

With respect to research.txt I don't want to touch the Research Orders until lurch's tech tree is completed and fully tested, so the rework on the research orders should be limited, if using a mature tree.

As I keep saying, I do not have the time to do anything for a while. Nor do I think it is the right time anyway. Right from the start I've said that I will not begin AI Improvement until you and lurchi have integrated.

In short, I know you are enthusiastic, and I don't want to dampen that, but please back off. Leave the AI Improvement Mod Excel file and the changes needed to me please.

Ok Ok sure mate.
I can see how we do improve and automate certain things (because i dabbed in complex excel "programming" some), and i talking about bit different things that you are, but sure , no problem, i just, as you mentioned, trying to be/being enthusiastic/creative and trying to help.
Only thing i wanted to mention, for combined mod its will be much correct and simpler to :
- Or to combine mine with yours, and then the result combine with lurchi's. Just because Beyond already built on research queues, and even takes some AI mod things further, so it will be completely incompatible with RR, even more than AI Mod.
- Other option is to combine AI mod and Lurchi's and then combine all result with Beyond.
This means either me and you and lurchi work on integration with RR once it is tested and on final release , or you combine your work with lurchis, and then i hop in at later stages of it.

But i agree that its early to talk about details of it. Lets see RR being released and tested. I will use some excel automation in case we/you will meet some complications and ask for that and/or the situation will demand it.

[lurchi]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

The 300 component thing is a new feature, and I'm afraid probably one that most testers don't have the patience to go through with. After all, I only added a couple of weapons, a few wonders, and a revamped tech tree for colony tech using the default research as a base and it took me forever to do (after several revisions due to errors).

Sounds like you're the man when it comes to big research trees. All I can advise is try to catch the error logs, a save-game if possible, and keep in touch with Eric and Elliot until it gets worked out.

I hit the component and also the research project border (1000 - just wanted to know if there is such a thing). [:D]
Yeah, it's quite some work to redo the tech tree...
I'll keep checking for possible reasons, but I guess we'll have to wait for the next patch to solve that problem along with the 256 component bug.

[lurchi]

ORIGINAL: DinoSaurus

Lurchi, I have two ideas, which maybe could be interesting:

(1) Do you have implemented something like an ANTI-TRAKTOR-BEAM? This could helb to fix a special ship and push it away from it's target, depending on the ships mass... I am thinking of star destroyers... or maybe battleships at scientific stations - Would possibly fit to countermeasures

(2) Another interesting equipment would be some kind of TECH-SCANNER: If you first time met a ship with a unknown tech (and your exploration-ship has a TECH-SCANNER) you get a little (or more, depending on the scanner-level) scientific bonus according to the tech of the foreign ship. This also would be another good idea for exploration ships: For every planet discovered (maybe a new "intensive excovering" if possible, only for colonizable planets, gas giants and barren planets) you get a little bonus on e.g. desert colonization or s.th. witch fits - important: the scientific bonus should not be too big. I think this also would extend the exploration of the universe...

[:)]

1) Tractor beams CAN push away. [;)]
It's just hard to get them to do what you want. A simple toggle would be really nice. I have implemented more of them, BTW.

2) It's not possible to implement completely new concepts like a tech scanner. [:(]

[lurchi]

ORIGINAL: Icemania

ORIGINAL: Hawkeye_BF

My english is really not the best but hope its enough to communicate withe you.
I would really like to help balance testing, at moment I have alot of Time

Cool! Pick an area that interests you and give it a focus once lurchi provides a complete tree for the part that you are interested. All we need to do is avoid people working on the same area of balance testing.

This will turn into a huge community effort. [:)]

[Cmiller]

I would love to test out your mod lurchi. At first I was turned off because I was concerned the tech tree may be too big for me. But now I believe bigger is better, and since we're getting Icemania's AI mod in, it'll be even sweeter. I'm really looking forward to that beta release. So sign me up. I'm thinking I may do some more AARs once yours comes out. You can look at those for my testing results. And I'll provide screenshots in this thread. I can't promise 24/7 testing like some others may be able to do, since I'm in college, but I can when I get the spare time. Hope to see that release soon, lurchi, and congrats on what you did so far. You really put a lot of effort into this.

P.S. I'm really interested in those Pyshco weapons, so let me call dibs on those please [:)]

Cmiller

[Hawkeye_BF]

ORIGINAL: Icemania

ORIGINAL: Hawkeye_BF

My english is really not the best but hope its enough to communicate withe you.
I would really like to help balance testing, at moment I have alot of Time

Cool! Pick an area that interests you and give it a focus once lurchi provides a complete tree for the part that you are interested. All we need to do is avoid people working on the same area of balance testing.

Hi,

I'am very very interisted in ENERGY&CONSTRUCTION...

[DinoSaurus]

Hm... but MAYBE the programmers are able to open a door for this?!

[:)]

Another intersting point would be a telescope(-base) to explore planets fare away - do you have thought of this idea? Distance and time should be depending on the own scientific knowledge/components

[lurchi]

I'm sure they are able to, but I doubt they will. Maybe in DW2.

Same for those telescopes. I thought about this as well, including better search results with more devices in different systems. Sure would be nice, alas, like I said, intruducing new concepts is... yeah.