Modifications to MWiF Scandinavia Map portion

[Anendrue]

Well I think all the names should be in the Hopi language (unknown to Japan in WWII). That way Japan won't be able to read maps and will get lost on the way to Pearl Harbor. [:D]

[composer99]

It would actually be kind of cool if the Chinese & Japanese city names were in their actual character sets... unreadable for many (and hence unmarketable), but cool...

[marcusm]

It may not be a huge issue to you capitan but for us real Göteborgare it is. Those who go to Änglarnas matches for instance .

http://www.lfv.se/templates/LFV_Airport ... 37183.aspx

Göteborg Landvetter Aiport.

Try to avoid the 08 made pages and stick to Göteborg based (like www.goteborg.se) and you will have the truth of it.

Gothenburg is called so to confuse the AIK/DIF "people", so they get lost(permanently if we are lucky).

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_i_friidrott_1995
5th IAAF WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS IN ATHLETICS GÖTEBORG 1995.


So what if there is a picture that Göteborg is called Gothenburg? Isn't it right to try and educate people then? I am proud of being a "Göteborgare" and I am not ashamed of calling myself a local patriot. I would never move to Stockholm (Kungsbacka is about my limit).

Actually I did live in Belfast once. They had situations where names were different depending if you were Catholic or Protestant(Ulster Scot etc). Luckily we don't have that problem here.

[marcusm]

Still want to stress that this in no way will stop me from buying this game.
This is just a matter of education.


Btw. Is everyone aware that Skåne is called Scania in English? If we are to be co-herent I mean .

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sk%C3%A5ne

[marcusm]

ORIGINAL: hakon

marcusm:

It doesn't really matter what is official in Sweden/Swedish. What matters, is what is official in England/English. WiF is not an official diplomatic document where diplomatic etiquette has to be observed, but closer to something like a novel. And just like a novel, the game itself has a native language. And this native language is not Swedish, but English.

And since Gothenburg clearly is an official exonym for Göteborg IN ENGLISH (pardon the shouting), it is also appropriate for WiF.

By the way, from my limited knowledge of swedish history, it is not clear that Gothenburg is without basis in history, either. While the word göte (English geat, i believe) should not be mistaken for the word goth or got (like in Gotland), the göte (geat) ethnic group have afaik considered themselves (quite officially) to be a subgroup of the goth people throughout much of known history.

Articles related to the origin of the goths:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandza

Note that in the Scandza section, the geat are called geat-goths, which could help explain the origin of the word Gothenburg, and that also indicates that the source is not necessarily a case of mixing up the words goth with göte because of linguistic simmilarity.

This is what I have been trying to say all the time(even to Norwegians).
Göteborg is official in English, Hutu, Zulu, Swazi, Chinese, Turkmen, Norwegian(believe it or not), Turkish, Hindu, Martian and not to forget, French.

It's GÖTAR not GUTAR. GUTE = GOTLAND. Has ZERO to do with Götar (nevermind the speculation about Goth = Götar). Västergötland is the cradle of Sweden. We owe nothing to nobody. It is exactly the type of nonsense the use of Gothenburg leads to. Somebody even wrote Gothenborg. At least we could assimilate those hopeless Stockholmers and make people out of them(perhaps).

Forget Wikipedia and read our history in www.goteborg.se, written by actual experts, not random Internet visitors.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

ORIGINAL: marcusm
[This is what I have been trying to say all the time(even to Norwegians).
Göteborg is official in English, Hutu, Zulu, Swazi, Chinese, Turkmen, Norwegian(believe it or not), Turkish, Hindu, Martian and not to forget, French.

In Norway we don't write Göteborg, but Gøteborg. It's slightly different. [:)]

I don't think it's necessary to make a special case for Gothenburg and localize this name. Patrice is right, if we start changing some names we need to change them all to localized versions. E. g. Moskva instead of Moscow. But by doing so you add the risk of confusing the majority of the players, i. e. the English speaking players.

So I think it's fine the way it is now. If you look at maps from Britain or USA you see Copenhagen and Gothenburg and not København and Göteborg.

What could be helpful is if a reference to the file where the city names are stored so people can alter the names to localized version if they want to. Those names that can't be changed should be listed so we don't create game bugs by localizing city names.

[bredsjomagnus]

Is everyone aware that Skåne is called Scania in English?

 
I wasn´t.
So today I have learned that I am a Scania man (Helsingborg för övrigt). Nice.
 

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Borger Borgersen
What could be helpful is if a reference to the file where the city names are stored so people can alter the names to localized version if they want to. Those names that can't be changed should be listed so we don't create game bugs by localizing city names.

Easy, it looks like that.

511 is the ID
37 is a hex coordinate (X)
41 is the other hex coordinate (Y)
18 is a coordinate for the place of the name in the hex (X, from 0 to 67)
38 is the other coordinate for the place of the name in the hex (Y from 0 to 75)
16 is the city marker position
6 is the port symbol position
2 is the factory position
0 is the resource position
0 is the color code of the text
10 is the size of the text
Gothenburg is the label itself

[Froonp]

And the corresponding map view.

[Toed]

On the recent Gothenburg issue...
While I understand marcusm's need to rectify the map. I myself have made a few pointers on issue of the Swedish map including the use of some english names. However when it comes to this matter I feel that Gothenburg is not a big mistake. Or perhaps not even a mistake at all. Since most people that is going to play the game, and actually know the city exists, probably don't speak Swedish and I have never seen or heard a englishspeaking person call Göteborg anything but Gothenburg.

[jesperpehrson]

wooooo woooo, i am a fan of IFK as well and I go to games as well. I am as real as they come but Gothenburg (or even the slightly worse Gotemburgo in spanish) is fine by me.

Go blue and white! [:D]

[ahlner]

To continue with the perhaps trivial issue of name spelling I can add that correct Finnish (and English) spelling of Finnish minor port "Hankø" is Hanko (Swedish spelling is Hangö).

Another name that could be questioned is Vyborg that is the Russian name for Finnish minor port Viipuri. Since the map pictures the 1939 borders, at the time Vyborg still is Finnish, perhaps the Finnish (and English) name Viipuri would be more correct to use. Swedish spelling for Viipuri is Viborg.

[hakon]

Both Gothenburg and Goteborg are official in English, as Webster clearly shows.
 
As a sidenote, I went to see the Swedish movie "Arn" yesterday, and in the movie, the protagonist (who was from vestgötaland) chose to call himself "Arn de Gothia".
 
I guess the author must be a stockholmare......

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

6th and last in the series.

As I always say, "You put in a thousand hours of work, and you can made something that's not half bad." In this case, several hundred hours, in aggregate, by dozens of people.

Since Steve said it was last call on map changes and Peter is working on setup for Sweden I looked on the map of Sweden. It looks very nice and I know it is late for changes but two things looked a bit weird to me. Sweden seems to need a bit more of railway and Northern part of Sweden looks a bit to much forrested and in need of some swamp instead. A large portion of the far north of Sweden is covered by bogs and other types of wetlands.

Railways in Sweden first. The last part of the railway net was completed 1938 and the net then had 16900 km of railway. In the 1950s some of the railways was "abandoned".

I found a map over railways active today. As far as I know all of them was completed before 1938 so it should have been even more rail in 1938. The nice thing about the map is that you can click on a specific railway and see its history and when it was completed. So go to following site for some more facts. Unfortunately in Swedish.
http://www.jarnvag.net/banguide/karta.asp

My suggestions for changes will follow soon.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

6th and last in the series.

As I always say, "You put in a thousand hours of work, and you can made something that's not half bad." In this case, several hundred hours, in aggregate, by dozens of people.

Since Steve said it was last call on map changes and Peter is working on setup for Sweden I looked on the map of Sweden. It looks very nice and I know it is late for changes but two things looked a bit weird to me. Sweden seems to need a bit more of railway and Northern part of Sweden looks a bit to much forrested and in need of some swamp instead. A large portion of the far north of Sweden is covered by bogs and other types of wetlands.

Railways in Sweden first. The last part of the railway net was completed 1938 and the net then had 16900 km of railway. In the 1950s some of the railways was "abandoned".

I found a map over railways active today. As far as I know all of them was completed before 1938 so it should have been even more rail in 1938. The nice thing about the map is that you can click on a specific railway and see its history and when it was completed. So go to following site for some more facts. Unfortunately in Swedish.
http://www.jarnvag.net/banguide/karta.asp

My suggestions for changes will follow soon.

Be careful, as this is the same as for the ports.
In Europe, every coastal hex would deserve to be a minor port.
Every hex would also deserve to contain a railway in the 6 directions.
Now, you must keep in mind that these railways that are on the WiF map are those main railways that allowed massive troop transporting, and massive resource transporting. Not all railways are depicted.

Here too, we prefered to stay conservative in regards to what the original designers did, even if we redrawn the whole Scandinavia shape, we kept basicaly the same broad details. Railways, cities & ports.

[Ullern]

There are no swamps in Sweden on the WIFFE Scandinavian minimap.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Be careful, as this is the same as for the ports.
In Europe, every coastal hex would deserve to be a minor port.
Every hex would also deserve to contain a railway in the 6 directions.
Now, you must keep in mind that these railways that are on the WiF map are those main railways that allowed massive troop transporting, and massive resource transporting. Not all railways are depicted.

Here too, we prefered to stay conservative in regards to what the original designers did, even if we redrawn the whole Scandinavia shape, we kept basicaly the same broad details. Railways, cities & ports.

I do not agree with you that every costal hex in europe deserve to be a minor port. I think it is the opposite actually. I do not belive there are many ports that are not on the map capable of anchoring and servicing (refueling etc) 4 battleships.

I appreciate that you are conservative in changing what the original designers did. I do however belive they didn't put as much effort in making the map for Sweden as they did for Finland. The terrain in northern Finland is very much alike the terrain in northern Sweden. You notice how Finland has alot of swamps and Sweden none?

The railway with the lowest capacity in Sweden (in regards to the number of trains on it at the same time would most likely be Kiruna - Narvik). Thanks to a relative of mine I actually have had the pleasure of riding in the locomotive from Kiruna to Narvik and even driving it a part of the way. [:)]

-Orm

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Be careful, as this is the same as for the ports.
In Europe, every coastal hex would deserve to be a minor port.
Every hex would also deserve to contain a railway in the 6 directions.
Now, you must keep in mind that these railways that are on the WiF map are those main railways that allowed massive troop transporting, and massive resource transporting. Not all railways are depicted.

Here too, we prefered to stay conservative in regards to what the original designers did, even if we redrawn the whole Scandinavia shape, we kept basicaly the same broad details. Railways, cities & ports.

I do not agree with you that every costal hex in europe deserve to be a minor port. I think it is the opposite actually. I do not belive there are many ports that are not on the map capable of anchoring and servicing (refueling etc) 4 battleships.

I appreciate that you are conservative in changing what the original designers did. I do however belive they didn't put as much effort in making the map for Sweden as they did for Finland. The terrain in northern Finland is very much alike the terrain in northern Sweden. You notice how Finland has alot of swamps and Sweden none?

The railway with the lowest capacity in Sweden (in regards to the number of trains on it at the same time would most likely be Kiruna - Narvik). Thanks to a relative of mine I actually have had the pleasure of riding in the locomotive from Kiruna to Narvik and even driving it a part of the way. [:)]

-Orm

I only rode on the "front end" once - from Philadelphia to Washington D.C.. I have a very vivid memory of the trip.

[peskpesk]

ORIGINAL: ullern

There are no swamps in Sweden on the WIFFE Scandinavian minimap.

True, but there should be IMO.

“Swamps, Terrain, marshes and wetlands, usually in connection with the lakes or rivers. Swamp is not a common word to describe wetlands in Sweden, they are usually called bogs. Similar wetlands in other countries are referred to, however, like quagmire.

In central and northern parts of Sweden, on Gotland and in Finland, the word also refer to the same as the lake, which is evident in the name of several lakes, such as the Torneträsk(Torne swamp). Byn träsk(swamp) in Skogs Assembly in Kramfors municipality will have its name from a string of lakes and ponds in the area covered by the village swamp. The village is the only one with this name in Sweden. In Finland, 3.

Wetlands are under Wetlands the census definition (Löfroth 1991) land where water for much of the year are close in, or just above the ground surface and vegetation-covered waters.

In most cases, the vegetation used to distinguish wetlands from other land. At least 50 percent of the vegetation to be hydrophilic, ie the moisture-loving, in order to convene an area of wetland.

The main classification of wetlands in the types based on the water of origin and where the land is peat formation or not.

Wetlands are divided into marshes, beaches, marshes, bogs and other wetlands.”

Translated from Wikipedia

Check out the Satellite photoes of northern Sweden and see how much lakes, vetlands and bogs there are,

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=66.894444,20.161111&spn=0.3,0.3&q=66.894444,20.161111

[Orm]

I would like the Swedish railway net to look something like this.

During 3 years of the war some 2 million german troops were transported through Sweden. Most were wounded or soldiers on leave with the exeption of a division with weapons and ammunitions. This used up 10% of the Swedish railcapacity at its peak. The trains and railway was guarded by 15000 Swedish troops. The trains did not pass Stockholm.

-Orm