Notes from a Small Island

[brian800000]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS5rKyte9Ls&t=2774s

CR--if you have interest in Mt. Yonah--go to 46:10.

I was watching this recently, and was shocked to see Mt. Yonah randomly come up: I have been there several times for rock climbing!

I sent my girlfriend this, and she agreed with Longstreet that the hike up Yonah is hard and detracts from the enjoyment (she hates climbing at Yonah because of the uphill hike to the top).

[Canoerebel]

Brian, thanks for the link. I'll click it shortly.

I've never climbed Yonah, but I've seen it many times. It's visible from all over north Georgia, including from parts of the Appalachian Trail, like the Trey Mountain stretch.

Years ago, I somewhere read an account by Longstreet, post war. After the war, he returned home to Georgia. He climbed (solo, or in the company of but few) to the top of Yonah. There he gave vent to his grief over the war's tremendous loss of life and suffering.

I read that perhaps 20 years ago but can't recall where. I've searched for it over the years. I've mentioned it in the forum from time to time, and thoughtful folks here have searched for it, without luck. It's out there somewhere, I think. Eventually I'll find it.

[Canoerebel]

I just watched the link. I thought the speaker was going to quote the very passage I was looking for, but he didn't. (I'm familiar with the document he was quoting from - a diary by Captain Goree that includes accounts of how the two of them traveled through South Carlolina and into Georgia at war's end. Somewhere I have a PDF of Goree's journal.)

The speaker notes that Yonah is something over 3,000 feet in elevation. That's the truth but not the whole truth, of course. Ground level in that area is somewhere north of 1,000 feet, I think, so Yonah's actual "relief" is somewhere closer to a 1,000 feet or maybe 2,000.

[brian800000]

Very interesting...I actually have spent a decent amount of time at the top of yonah, because that is where the main climbing wall is.

I think it will be a bit haunting up there knowing that is basically the spot to which Longstreet hiked and vented about the tragedy of the war....

My point of view on Yonah is that it is not very attractive. The Rangers have used it to train for years and they marked up the cliffs with spraypainted notes. What is horrendous vandalism today back in the 60s was probably more like standard operating procedure.

The relief is not even close to 3,000 ft. I think the biggest 1 way hike in Georgia is around 2k feet, and Yonah is not that (probably around 1,200 is my guess). I know because I've scouted many areas to train and the steepest elevation gain without a break is what i was looking for - I did climb the Matterhorn last year which was also used as the comparison by the ranger in the video!

[Canoerebel]

The toughest hike I've done in Georgia is Tearbritches Trail in Cohutta Wilderness - 2,100 feet over three miles, from the Conasauga River to the top of Bald Mountain. That's 700 feet per mile, which is tough. So Tearbritches is basically identical to the upper half of North Kaibab Trail in the Grand Canyon, from Redwall Bridge to the Rim, which is also about 2,100 feet over three miles.

[brian800000]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The toughest hike I've done in Georgia is Tearbritches Trail in Cohutta Wilderness - 2,100 feet over three miles, from the Conasauga River to the top of Bald Mountain. That's 700 feet per mile, which is tough. So Tearbritches is basically identical to the upper half of North Kaibab Trail in the Grand Canyon, from Redwall Bridge to the Rim, which is also about 2,100 feet over three miles.

Tearbritches Trail

I haven't done that one...I will check it out..My go to for bringing pain to myself is the Arkaquah Trail up brasstown bald. It starts super steep, has a long flat section, and then an uphill at the end. A couple times I've just done repeats on the first steep section. I think it is over 1,000 feet in the first mile.

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: brian800000

I haven't done that one...I will check it out..My go to for bringing pain to myself is the Arkaquah Trail up brasstown bald. It starts super steep, has a long flat section, and then an uphill at the end. A couple times I've just done repeats on the first steep section. I think it is over 1,000 feet in the first mile.

If pain is your hiking thing, come see me. I know of a trail [:D]

[brian800000]

Where is that picture from? Is that from some west coast murder hike?

[Lecivius]

It's part of the Pikes Peak climb. I know of other, less strenuous places as well [;)]

[Lecivius]

It's not that difficult. This girl did it (and hats off to her!!).

[Canoerebel]

Difficulty is relative, naturally: an 80-year-old smoker can't do what a 20-year-old gymnast would find a lark. With that caveat in mind, I've found over the years that 700 feet per mile is the real threshold between tough and ridiculous. 300 feet per mile is pretty easy. 500 to 600 feet gets your attention. 700 is really, really, really hard. More than 700 feet per mile over an extended distance - well, I don't think I've ever done that.

Probably the toughest stretch of trail I've ever done is "Jacob's Ladder" or "Yellow Creek Cliffs," just north of Tellico Gap on the Appalachian Trail in North Carolina. I think it climbs about 1,000 feet in one mile. I did that near the end of a long day under a full pack. My two boys, then roughly 13 and 15, didn't even blink and probably don't even remember it today. But I was barely able to put one foot completely in front of the other. Most of my steps were less than a single foot-length. I made it though, and it was worth it. The next stretch is a knife's edge ridgetop with great views to both sides.

[AcePylut]

Yeah but, yeah but, yeah but...

Can that 20 year old, fit, non-smoker get the runner's high from climbing a single story flight of stairs?

Cuz that 80 year old out-of-shape smoker does... every single time

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Yeah but, yeah but, yeah but...

Can that 20 year old, fit, non-smoker get the runner's high from climbing a single story flight of stairs?

Cuz that 80 year old out-of-shape smoker does... every single time

Heck, with my knees I'm just grateful if I make it up those stairs [:D]

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Difficulty is relative, naturally: an 80-year-old smoker can't do what a 20-year-old gymnast would find a lark. With that caveat in mind, I've found over the years that 700 feet per mile is the real threshold between tough and ridiculous. 300 feet per mile is pretty easy. 500 to 600 feet gets your attention. 700 is really, really, really hard. More than 700 feet per mile over an extended distance - well, I don't think I've ever done that.

The Manitou Incline (the trail in my picture) gains over 2000ft vertical in less than a mile. I made it, once. Damned near killed me. My son raced up it against some Air Force Academy pukes, just to show them up. Little whippersnapper [8D] Ah, to be young again [:)]

[brian800000]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Difficulty is relative, naturally: an 80-year-old smoker can't do what a 20-year-old gymnast would find a lark.

To this point, and what I consider the most romantic story I’ve ever witnessed (though when I said it was a very romantic story my girlfriend said she can’t believe she is dating me, if I think this is romantic)…

I climbed the matterhorn by one of the non standard routes (from Italy) last year. I did it with a friend, and we were both guided (it is a max of 1-1 guide to client ratio on the matterhorn). There was one other guy climbing—a really old Italian guy.

We did it as a two day climb: first day hike to a hut about halfway up, second day go for the summit and back down. So all 6 of us started climbing at the same time (3 clients and 3 guides). The old Italian guy immediately fell way behind. We probably got to the hut 3 hours before he did.

He was pretty sullen at the hut. For a variety of reasons, you generally have about 4-5 hours to summit from the hut—take longer and the guides will turn you around because it isn’t safe. Based on the pace he was climbing the first day, there is no way he would make the summit.

But that evening we talked, and I asked about his wedding band. He told us his story: He was 71. In his youth, he was a climber. But then he met the love of his life, and she was scared of falling. So he gave up climbing and just hiked with her. They got married and had a family. But about a year ago she died. He didn’t know what to do, and was quite depressed. His son told him: you will die if you don’t find a passion. You were passionate about climbing—you must climb again or die.

So he called a guide to climb the matterhorn (cervino in Italian). And here he was. But he explained—“it is too late for me. I have waited too long to climb the cervino and am now too old.” Everyone was aware how slow he was moving, and that would never work on summit day. I said to him, “there is so much to climb! You can climb easier mountains than the cervino.” He replied, “In Italy there is a saying: ‘There are thousands of mountains, but there is only one true mountain: the cervino’.”

Summit day came, and we almost immediately left him behind. I didn’t see him again until I was about halfway down the mountain – probably about 5 hours in. He was only 2/3 of the way up and he was already at turn around time. It was obvious he would never make it.

But the guide, almost certainly moved by his story, let him keep climbing (I can guarantee this would not happen under normal circumstances—my guide was shocked he was allowed to keep climbing). He did make the summit, but it was only after almost 8 hours. And he then made it down safely.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

My family camped in Maryland (Cunningham Falls State Park) around 2004. We spent a lot of time along the Potomac, including Great Falls, C&O Canal, and Harpers Ferry. Also spent a lot of time in DC, Antietam, Gettysburg, and Seneca Rocks. It was September, crowds were zilch, and we had a blast in your neighborhood. That's a wonderful place to explore!

Have you been to Seneca Rocks and Dolly Sods Wilderness Area?

You keep having fun up there.

Threadromancy from yesterday.

Both of those places are awesome. Went there in 2013ish and took some pics. Unsure if I ever uploaded them anywhere. West Virginia has incredible diversity of terrain - Dolly Sods reminded me more of, well, Rohan ([:D]) while the Seneca Rocks area itself (not too far from Dolly Sods, an hour's drive or so) was more like your standard small Appalachian mountains area. Also a sweet place to go up the rock scrambles at the top. On the day we were there, there was a group of folks doing the old paratrooper climbing spot on the far right.

Found the pics on my thumb drive. Minimally curated, enjoy: https://imgur.com/a/FvsB7PG

Aside: man those pics are low resolution compared to even my cell phone camera today.

[CaptBeefheart]

Well, I saw all kinds of activity on this AAR and thought something big was up... in the CBI theater. Turns out it's about Confederate statues and steep hiking.

My 2 cents on that: Part of the reason our country has stuck together for so long since 1865 is that the North was relatively magnanimous in victory compared to other conflicts around the world. My take is removing statues and changing proper nouns is a gratuitous insult to that original post-war spirit of "we're wounded, but let's move this country forward." It's a crime against history.

On hiking, I recall the usual maximum ascent rate I have come across is about 1,000 feet per mile. As a Boy Scout in Southern California, I have memories of Mt. San Gorgonio as being one bear of a hike. Looking online now, I see the trailhead was at 6,100 ft, the peak at 11,503 ft., and the trail was 10 miles. In certain sections you ascend 1000 feet per mile. I did that peak again when I was 25, but would have a bit of trouble trying that hike now.

Cheers,
CB

[JohnDillworth]

The vast majority of Confederate statues were erected not after the war.....but correspond quite closely to the Jim Crow era in the south with a huge spike between 1900 and 1920.....50 to 70 years after the war ended. It would be like the Untied States having a gold rush on World War II statues today....which is not happening. The is something else at play here Also, there are Confederate statues in 31 states. If I recall there were 11 States in Confederacy.....Sorry to stray into politics but I think the we need to seperate what was erected as memorials and what was erected as glorification of and nostalgia for the causes of the Civil War.Big difference but the topic is worthy of civil and civic discussion. I've visited Confederate monuments and cemeteries (Magnolia , In Charleston being particularly moving)where the memorial was entirely appropriate and in fact deeply patriotic, and others that were meant to convey a somewhat different message. The Silent Sam statue in Chapel Hill was the pet project of industrialist John Carr. Interesting guy...look up his history and motivations

[Bearcat2]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

The vast majority of Confederate statues were erected not after the war.....but correspond quite closely to the Jim Crow era in the south with a huge spike between 1900 and 1920.....50 to 70 years after the war ended. It would be like the Untied States having a gold rush on World War II statues today....which is not happening. ............................................

You mean like the WW2 memorial in Washington? [:)]

[Canoerebel]

Statues were erected mostly because the aged veterans were dying. For the same reason, it was around then that southern states were enacting laws to grant pensions to veterans and their widows. It was around then that counties were having veterans prepare rosters of their units.

There are hundreds of Confederate statues in Georgia, mostly erected between 1890 and 1925. Those were not political statements, as John D. (my respected comrade) believes. There was no need to make political statements in Georgia. The state was unified (the white population, which unfortunately was all that mattered in those days). There was no contrary thought.

As for their being statues in other states, that's because Confederate veterans had moved to places like Colorado and Nevada and California and New York. Mostly it was done in tribute to comrades. In some places, there might've been a little of the old sentiment, "Fergit, hell!" (You used to see bumper stickers and t-shirts to that effect, right up into the '90s, I think.)

The more negative political statements didn't develop until the 1950s, as push-back against Supreme Court decisions and federal government policies, especially on segregation. It's then that southerners took up that lamentable "leave us alone" attitude and in defiance did things like changing the Georgia state flag. That change wasn't totally for ugly reasons - it was a mixture of defiance against perceived meddling (in things that really needed to meddled with, as it turned out), and most folks don't like outsiders meddling in their affairs, even if the meddling turns out to be needed.

Today we live in a more diverse population in which black votes are as important as white votes. In my state, the population is about 33% black, I think. With just cause (and sometimes because of the promotion of ugly grievance politics), many blacks do not revere Confederate history. It is therefore appropriate to have discussions about the place of Confederate symbols. But, as you can see, it all comes down to majority vote, just as it did 120 years ago. I don't think people today are acquitting themselves any better than the people did back then. There's a lot of ugly anger out there.