The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

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GreyJoy
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

There was a time when GJ needed help and plenty of it.  A newbie was facing an experienced veteran in a Scenario Two match, and that veteran was toying with the newb in unpleasant ways.  China had fallen, India was about to fall, and the Allies were on the brink of utter ruin.

But the newbie did some unexpected things.  He didn't go and lose his carriers.  He did gradually learn how to fight on a tactical and operational level.  He sifted through volumes of advice, which was often contradictory.  He listened to his own instincts and began to thrive.  Perhaps most amazingly, his innate good nature never flagged throughout the process.  And then he pulled off one whale of strategic operation.

The "newbie" has won this game.  He's waxed very, very good.  I don't see any need to offer him micromanagement level advice at this point.  In fact, perhaps he will be the one offering me advice on quite a few things from this day forward.  [:)]

too much CR...i don't deserve that....thanks anyway [:)]
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GreyJoy
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510
ORIGINAL: Miller

Despite your losses, I think Rader's fighter pools will start to evaporate soon after a few more engagements like that.

Rader can produce millions of aircraft... Nemo's advice would make GJ's strategic bombing success skyrocket..

I'm still waiting to have enough 4Es to do it properly...and enough long legged fighters above all....
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paullus99
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by paullus99 »

Another few days & that roadblock is going to disintegrate - he doesn't have the quality of troops to stand up to sustained fighting for very long. He'll be able to fight you in the air for a few weeks, but as your bombing campaign really kicks off & he starts losing factories, it will become unsustainable for him.

I'm sure he's going to leave roadblocks for you in the Pacific and DEI (perhaps the troops already in place), but everything else is probably coming home at this point.
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Nemo121
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by Nemo121 »

GJ,

Your analysis is letting you down again. You are making statements without evidence to back them up, letting hyperbole get in the way of sober assessment. YOu did very well with spotting the huge gap Rader left in the north BUT you do have a tendency to just take hyperbole as fact which is unfortunate.

Lets examine them in turn....
A part from Harbin, where i found no opposition, all his bases are covered with thousands of fighters


That's incorrect. At best he could have 100 to 200 fighter per base over Japan. Some bases may have more at the expense of leaving others less-defended. You've already thrown away your best opportunity to kill his aircraft factories quickly by hitting them while he was disorganised. Now you'll have to fight for them BUT there's no reason you can't ID bases with relatively fewer fighters and tackle them first. What I see in this game is that now you are AGAIN throwing yourself right at his best-CAPed bases and then are talking about his strength.... well, of course, if you throw yourself into the meatgrinder you can't expect not to be minced. Why are you throwing yourself into the meatgrinder though? It is unnecessary.
i still don't have the numbers of long-legged fighters to sweep and LRCAP the targeted bases efficiently

But you have enough bombers to bull through lightly/moderately defended bases and you have enough fighters to support them in a limited offensive if you don't continue wasting your long-ranged fighters on hugely outnumbered sweeps of Hakodate. You say you don't have enough but every day you throw many away needlessly over Hakodate. Your lack of P-47s is due to your using them in roles which other fighters could fill, leaving you with too few for the roles ONLY P-47s can currently perform. That's another mis-allocation of resources within your power to fix.
(i barely have 200 4Es in the theatre).
Thats not true and it also misses a larger point.
In one recent day you commited 120 4-engineds to strategic bombing raids over Harbin and on the same day commited over 140 to ground attacks over Hakodate. In addition, recently, you talked of having 4-engined bombers commited to the fighting around Rabaul.

So, even within the theatre you have 260+ 4-engined bombers and are losing UNDER 50% for what you have identified as strategically decisive missions which will end the war - which, at present, only the 4-engineds can accomplish.... using over 50% of them for missions which won't end the war and which any SBD or B-25 could easily accomplish. A serious misallocation of 4-engineds within the theatre.

Beyond that you have, based on what I can glean, at least 200 more 4-engineds in action in other theatres... theatres where they are engaged in far, far less important missions - none of which will end the war as quickly as strategic bombing of fighter airframe factories in the Home Islands.

April 25, 26 1944
Rabaul has been emptied by his Air force...tomorrow sweeps and 4Es over the big base...

Here's a quote from today about misallocation of 4-engineds.


So, you are using 120 4-engineds for strategic bombing but conservatively could be using at least 4 times that number for strategic bombing. Of the 120 you are using it looks like half are being tasked for fire bombing or engine attacks ( at least ). So, your strategic bombing offensive is working at, roughly, 1/8th of its maximal efficiency. You COULD with a small amount of discipline be getting 8 times the results with the planes you have on-map.

All of the arguments about FOW etc etc are simply comfort myths. They aren't affecting your effectiveness nearly as much as the fact that you are misallocating about 85% of your 4-engined bombers to subsidiary theatres or subsidiary missions other bombers could easily do instead.

...i have to convert many 2Es to 4Es


Another comfort myth. No, you need to begin using what you have properly. ONly when all of that fails do you need to start worrying about PP and swapping twin-engineds over. Right now you should use your pools as a reserve to replace losses but should concentrate all of your 4-engineds on strategically decisive targets ( fighter airframe factories ) - a single base at a time. Accept the losses and smash his fighter production in a fortnight and you'll rapidly see significant results. As it is you are entirely playing into Rader's hands.
have to get better planes for many of my fighter units (P-47s and P-38s instead of P-39s and P-40s).


That would also help but the primary issue is the huge misallocation of 4-engineds in which you are engaging.


Hakodate:
Well he won't flood it because it looks like you are going to take it soon. If you back off you could lure him into a mistake.
I imagine what a fleet of BBs could do starting from Hakkodate.... the work the 4Es cannot done will be taken by the ships...
NO they won't. They'll kill planes at the airfield, fight CD gun emplacements and run into mines and subs. They won't destroy his factories and they won't disintegrate his divisions. Your imagination, here, is running away and embracing wishful fantasies as opposed to the objective reality of the algorithms.



Last point:
Whenever I see a picture you take of Honshu I'm struck by how few airbase signs there are.
Either your recon is abysmal ( and you aren't reconning these bases ) or those bases are empty. In either case it speaks to the unsupportability of the statement that he has strong fighter concentrations everywhere.

Sheer air unit size limits will tend to limit his fighter groups. He may have 4,000 or 5,000 potential fighter slots at this point but the key is there is a limit and even 5,000 fighters at 500 per base means he can only cover 10 bases. Leaving you free to hit other bases until he spreads out to cover 25 at 200 per base --- a small enough force that you can actually punch through.



Air co-ordination....
Well people have posted the answer here several times but you haven't taken it. At a certain point people stop posting the answer if it keeps just being ignored.

The answer, which others have posted ( not me), is to stop sweeping and, instead, LRCAP at highest altitude. Then, when bombers come in, the fighters will act as extempore escorts.

It has been posted many times going back several months but has been ignored each time.

I don't think GJ needs much advice at this point as his play has been absolutely brilliant

Guys, let's not get carried away. This isn't a Hollywood script where people have to be either down and out or brilliant and triumphant. GJ played an excellent strategic meta-layer but operationally and tactically there is still much to be worked on. Excessive praise is just as pointless as excessive excoriation.


Right now the bottom line is that IF strategic bombing of aircraft factories is his war-winning strategy then he is mis-allocating about 85% ( at a minimum ) of the planes best-suited to that mission. Obviously things will go better if he uses more than 15% of these planes for this war-winning mission type.

As to fighters: The answer is there also. He is losing his best long-range fighters in sweeps of Hakodate.
A) he shouldn't be sweeping Hakodate with any fighters ( as others pointed out long ago wrt other bases)
B) he shouldn't be committing his best long-range fighters ( capable of enagement to the enemy's operational depth - 15 hexes or so ) to sweeps 3 or 4 hexes from his bases which other fighters could do just as easily - fighters which can't engage at the ranges of the P-47s.

As to the benefits of Hakodate: I'm not convinced the cost/benefit analysis here is anything more than "it is a base, I want it". Certainly the fantasy of BBs raining down terror on strategically important targets as they tyrannously reign the seas is just that, a fantasy. They can close a couple of airfields but with the numbers of midgets Japan gets they will eventually get attrited out of action. Furthermore they cannot damage factories and so cannot achieve what GJ identifies as his primary strategical mission right now.
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paullus99
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by paullus99 »

A little harsh Nemo, but I have to agree with you here. GJ needs to stop worrying about what his opponent is going to do & getting on with what he (GJ) is going to do - which is exactly what Grant said to his subordinates during the darkest hours of the Battle of the Wilderness....

Rader is attempting to put forth an impression of strength here - and GJ needs to focus and start hitting him where he isn't or where he is weaker.

I'd print out a copy of what Nemo just wrote and put it next to your computer. Those are instructions for ending the war.
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JeffroK
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by JeffroK »

A comment, regardless of what strategy you follow.
 
Write it down, tick off the important bits every turn so that you dont forget, CAP, Recon, send empty transports out of harms way, Solomons, Burma etc.
 
Dont get caught by Victory fever and assume, work at (as Nemo says) getting the best use out of every weapon you have. Will the Spit VIII do the same job over Hakodate as the P47, can B25's replace the B24 etc?
 
IMVHO, dont even think of landing on Honshu. Look hard for a similar opening as the one you got in the Kuriles, make sure its worth the effort and will hurt reder or give you another useful base, then hit it hard.
 
If you do strategic bomb, halve the results you see unless you have heavy recon cover, FOW does give you a rosy picture.
 
PS. I also think rader is a bit rude asking for the upgrade to the latest beta, you should suggest something to limit the ability of kamikazies, barges or something to his disadvantage.
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Nemo121
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by Nemo121 »

I don't mean it to be harsh.

I'm simply being objective about what will most efficiently and effectively achieve the objectives Rader has set himself as being necessary to end the war. Obviously others may differ.

I only highlighted what I see as the errors in GJ's thinking so he can go away, think about them and improve. He has shown an ability to do that in some areas - albeit not in all as he often seems to ignore good advice ( which may be a side-effect of the overwhelming amount of input he gets at times ).

As re Grant: Here's a paraphrase somewhere between Grant and Patton which I think GJ needs to actually print out.
Dear Flying Spaghetti Monster in the sky please give me the strength to violently do unto that other poor ba**ard what he would like to do unto me. Give me the speed to do unto him first in all things. Lead me to focus my forces strategically and lead me not into dissipation of effort. For thine is the holy trinity of tactical, operational and strategic levels all of which must be intertwined together in order to achieve victory. Amen.
[:D]
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Nemo121
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by Nemo121 »

Quick question GJ...

Do you have an agreement with Rader to always play with the latest BETA? Have you followed it throughout the game? Context determines whether he is reasonable or not in asking to play with the latest patch.
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
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JeffroK
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by JeffroK »

Bringing up Civil war similies,
 
More like McLellan in the move to the Peninsula than Grant who only managed Cold Harbor before settling for a siege in front of Richmond.
 
Nemo, unfortunatley good advice does come highlighted to distinguish it from bad advice.  Can michaelm work on that please?
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desicat
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by desicat »

....and as the Allies battle in the air and on land with their Japanese counterparts for the possession of the HI's the IJN cruises silently with deadly intentions.

The seasoned leaders of the IJN realize that the massive Allied lodgement and offensive is consuming mountains of supply. They know that escorted convoys filled with replacements, fuel, and food are already plying the icy waters of the Bearing Sea and Northern Pacific enroute the Kuriles. The wise men of the IJN are in deep planning to try and cut the supply line, are you ready?

I have read about your escort plans, the question I have is are you planning on responding to his convoy raids are do you plan to trap and crush him with your superior naval assets?

Allied players play entire games trying to narrow down the location of the KB and the IJN surface fleet. You now find yourself in a position of knowing what and where his target is, are you going to be the hunter or the hunted?
pat.casey
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by pat.casey »

Have to agree with Nemo, although, like a few others I think his comments lack his usual deft touch, he's a bit more ... blunt than I'd have expected.

That said, this definitely feels like a case of paralysis by success e.g. "holy %^%! it worked, I own Hokaido ... err... now what?"

As others have suggested the war winning move is to bomb the home islands into rubble. I'm not enough of a Japanese production expect to know where the bottlenecks are, but if others think its airframes I'd trust their judgement.

Bases, give or take, don't really matter ... destroy Japanese industry and you can collect bases whenever you want.
Take bases, but leave his industry intact, and the war goes one.

As for the last parts of Hokaido, my $0.02 A) looks like you can take it w/o air support B) who cares if you take it so long as the Japanese cannot mass enough troops there to evict you from the rest of the island?
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CaptBeefheart
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by CaptBeefheart »

Saying Rader can't take too many more air losses like that last Hakodate battle is like saying the North Korean regime can't last much longer. It's been said dozens of times over the last few months (in North Korea's case: thousands of times over decades) and he still has airplanes in the pool, while the Fat Man is still in charge to my north. That said, I'd have to go along with Nemo and hit airframe production hard and some day those pools may run dry. There's certainly no need for 4Es anywhere else on the planet besides Hokkaido or environs.

I have a question for the JFBs: At this point, does the Empire usually have a big pool of engines? Could certain aircraft engines be hit hard to create a bottleneck or is it better to hit airframes? I always like hitting those engine factories but have no idea whether it's the most effective tactic.

Cheers,
CC
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jmalter
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by jmalter »

wrt advices posted here, the commentariat suffers FOW b/c we read only what GJ posts, & can only surmise about what he don't post.

for example, we've no access to info 'bout his supply-state, air sqn fatigue & airframe replacement pools, & that's just for the current OKdo battle.

however, some advices seem relevant:
A) stop it w/ the sweeps, use LRcap instead
B) methodically concentrate strat-bombing against individual targets
C) land-attack in south OKdo to attrit enemy LCU
C1) attack enemy reinf convoys w/ PTs, CL/DD TFs, & 100' FB sqns
D) improve recon over north Honshu in search for strat-bomb targets


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GreyJoy
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by GreyJoy »

Thanks guys, i'll reply in detail to Nemo's and others' posts as soon as i get to office.

In the meanwhile i'll report the last turn...

Was a good one...the lack of air cover in SOPAC is giving the allies a good shot to japanese transports...lots of ships sunk today, both around Rabaul and near Hakkodate.

But the crucial part is that my CVs and CVEs started to moved back to US coast...escorting 730 ships....and Rader immediately spotted me and react violently...several subs are already spotted around my TFs...and i bet that tomorrow we'll have to fight against those damned pesky bastards again....as we did when our CVEs were transfered to SOPAC back in early 43....do you remember? 5 CVEs sunk in few days....[:@]

Now i've done my best to counter his pack wolves strategy...

My transports TFs have all PFs, SCs, DDs and some YMS with them. Every TF is following a ASW TF which is following a SCTF

Same for the CVEs and the CVs. They are organized following an ASW TFs that follows a SCTF...so that the latters should enter the hex for first and attack/get attacked earlier than the CV/CVEs....

my subs are creating a long range safety belt south and west of my ships...he cannot arrive with the KB unseen! (i hope so at least...)



April 27, 28 1944

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Ominato at 118,53, Range 4,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAKL Raizan Maru
xAKL Kizugawa Maru
LST T-104, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
LST T-106, Shell hits 16, heavy fires, heavy damage
E Teiko, Shell hits 4, heavy fires

Allied Ships
PT-161
PT-242
PT-258
PT-345
PT-357
PT-359
PT-463
PT-465
PT-469
PT-493
PT-494, Shell hits 1, and is sunk




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Ominato at 118,53, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
LST T-114, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Allied Ships
PT-161
PT-242
PT-258
PT-345
PT-357
PT-359
PT-463
PT-465
PT-469
PT-493


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Ominato at 118,53, Range 4,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E Oki, Shell hits 7, on fire
AMc Wa 13
AMc Wa 16, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMc Kaiyo Maru #1, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
LB-122
LB-123, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
LB-124, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
LB-125, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
LB-126
LB-127, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
LB-128, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
LB-129, Shell hits 1, on fire
LB-130, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
LB-131, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
LB-133
LB-134, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
PB Hakka Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire

Allied Ships
PT-161
PT-242
PT-258
PT-345
PT-357
PT-359, Shell hits 1, on fire
PT-463
PT-465
PT-469
PT-493


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Ominato at 118,53

Japanese Ships
LST T-106, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Swordfish
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Mussau Island at 105,120

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 54 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-25D1 Mitchell x 6


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAP Teiritsu Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CM Nuwashima, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAP Montevideo Maru




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Rabaul at 106,125

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 18
Beaufighter X x 24
Boomerang C-12 x 24
B-25D1 Mitchell x 16


Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AMc Wa 1, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LB-565, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LB-164, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
PB Saiko Maru
SC CHa-72
AMc Wa 8, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
PB Nanpo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
ML G-208
LB-101, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LB-163, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LB-118
LB-136, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LB-116, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LB-167, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LB-506, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AM Wa 105, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
AMc Wa 17, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
ML G-201



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Hakodate at 119,53, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAKL Raizan Maru, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAKL Kizugawa Maru, Shell hits 37, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
PT-450
PT-452
PT-453


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Guiuan at 89,85

Japanese Ships
AK Kinka Maru, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Seadragon

Japanese ground losses:
46 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Mussau Island at 105,120

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 65 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-25D1 Mitchell x 12


Allied aircraft losses
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CM Nuwashima, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Nokaze
xAP Montevideo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAP Teibi Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
LSD Nigitsu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
LSD Akitsu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 119,52 (near Hakodate)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 3801 troops, 313 guns, 267 vehicles, Assault Value = 6025

Defending force 39930 troops, 250 guns, 79 vehicles, Assault Value = 967

Japanese ground losses:
150 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)



Assaulting units:
2nd USMC Amphb Tank Battalion
Americal Infantry Division
93rd Infantry Division
754th Tank Battalion
32nd Infantry Division
8th Indian Division
6th Infantry Division
4th USMC Tank Battalion
41st Infantry Division
1st USMC Amphb Tank Battalion
193rd Tank Battalion
3rd NZ Armoured Sqn
2nd USMC Tank Battalion
40th Infantry Division
7th Infantry Division
3rd Marine Division
131st Combat Engineer Regiment
43rd Infantry Division
33rd Infantry Division
5th USMC Tank Battalion
104th Combat Engineer Regiment
37th Infantry Division
632nd Tank Destroyer Battalion
4th Marine Division
2nd Marine Division
9th Australian Division
7th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
10th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
Eighth US Army
148th Field Artillery Battalion
225th Field Artillery Battalion
V US Amphib Corps
181st Field Artillery Regiment
33rd Medium Regiment
198th Field Artillery Battalion
134th Field Artillery Battalion
147th Field Artillery Regiment
XI US Corps
109th Tank Attack Regiment
249th Field Artillery Battalion
XIV Corps Artillery
XXI Indian Corps

Defending units:
1st Mobile Brigade
4th Depot Division
51st Depot Division
86th Division
2nd Depot Division
57th Depot Division
Guards Depot Division
77th Div /2
43rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
81st Division
5th Area Army
56th Depot Div /12
11th Div /1


cwDeici
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by cwDeici »

I have never played this game, not even read it but bits of one other WiTP game.

I'm pretty good at selecting and synthezising advice though.
It seems what to do is:

#1 Scout airframe factories. Move all 4Es to the primary theater.
-> #2 Massively attack the least defended airframe factory/ies (not sure what would be prudent force concentration and if there is overkill at all) with 4Es escorted by fighters that are on patrol over the area. -> #1

PS. Ask Nemo if/when and how to split attacks against weakly defended factories.

Also, it seems unfair to update to the most recent rules unless there is a prior agreement to do so, or precedent.
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JeffroK
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by JeffroK »

From post 3 of the thread

Oh, forgot to say that we're still playing with the official patch and not the latest beta one cause my opponent feels it's too risky to update now till it goes official.
Really do not know which are the differences, so i'll wait and see

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GreyJoy
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by GreyJoy »

Sorry guys...busy morning....
 
Just to underline that we both agreed that was Rader, being the japanese player, the one who has to decide when and if to upgrade to a new Beta. We've been upgrading to the betas since this summer and i never had anything to regret about (even if many of the changes have been a "downgrade" for the allies - i.e. the PP needed to be spent for a change from 2E to 4E or the I AUS Corp moved to a restricted command).
 
So Rader didn't do anything bad. He acted strictly following our agreement
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Nemo121
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by Nemo121 »

Pat.casey,
That really wasn't my intent.... I think though I've given this advice 2 to 3 times already so decided to be absolutely explicit this time - which may account for the bluntness.

Commander Cody,
Often the Empire has a stockpile of engines since if you have overproduction of engines they got stockpiled while if you overproduce airframes they just get wasted.

The bigger point is that if you destroy engine production and there's a stockpile the impact on number of enemy fighters produced might take months to be apparent as Rader can just
1. use the stockpile to make up for the deficit in engine production AND
2. simply stop producing bombers using the same engine - for each bomber he stops producing he can produce 2 fighters using that engine at no increased cost to his economy AND
3. Preferentially reduce production of obsolete fighter types in order to concentrate on more modern fighters using the same engines.

In short going for engines allows the Japanese to adjust and eke out their defensive productive ability for a long time.


On the other hand if you go for airframes:
1. YOU get to target the destruction at his most effective fighter types
2. There's no possibility of using stockpiles to make up for lost production and
3. There's no way to switch bomber production to fighter production without long retooling times ( which you can spot with enough recon ).

So, hitting airframes has more effect, more rapidly on his best planes. So that's the way to go in this situation.


Really the issue here (as with many problem-based scenarios in the real world ) is that people simply aren't simplifying the issues down to their basics sufficiently. When you simplify it down enough the correct courses of action are usually very readily apparent. I often tell students and even post-graduates I'm lecturing that if they don't understand something it is usually because their cognitive models are too complex and unwieldy and they should simplify things down. Over the course of 6 months to a year as they start to do that they tend to get quicker and more applicable plans.
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
modrow
Posts: 1100
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:02 am

RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by modrow »

Nemo,

is your post re. Greyjoy's strategic bombing based on the information he provides thereon in this thread? If it is, he might just be reporting one thing and doing/preparing something completely different. After all, he can play the meta-game, can't he?

Just my 2cts

Hartwig
yubari
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:46 am

RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

Post by yubari »

I have been following this very interesting game for the past three months or so of game time.

I have to say that the last thing I would be trying to do now would be trying to destroy the Japanese defensive position north of Hakodate. While Rader is still trying to defend it with hundreds of fighters on CAP and sending more troops in to defend across a very risky sea corridor then it is serving a very good purpose as a fake target and to direct the Japanese attention away from the real targets, the fighter factories. Instead I would be trying to keep the Japanese player sending more and more troops over to the hopeless position. I would even give the Japanese player a couple of victories such as running destroyers into minefields or letting a small 2E bomber group or two get destroyed overhead. Above all make it appear like I was still fighting for the position but in reality leaving it alone. Obviously that illusion is rather harder to create when the Japanese ground troops have already been so badly battered.

When one has complete control over the rest of Hokkaido then Hakkodate on its own is of very little use, apart from encouraging the Japanese player to continue to send fighters on LRCAP and sending more troops to their inevitable deaths. As a Japanese player, I have to say it scares me to see what the late war allied troops can do to even fortified Japanese troops.
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