Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: koniu
I look at my game with Docup. We achieve similar loses (+- few hundred) in July 44
So You game is much much bloodier in air.

I just got done looking at Mr. Kane vs Greyjoy and by Jan 45 they had 22K (Allies) 24K (Japanese) losses. This is the game where Greyjoy complained bitterly of being unable to wrest air control from Japan. Ki94 goodness, sadly a plane you won't see in this game.

[witpqs]

We are on the last day of June '44 and our losses are far lower! [X(]

This is from the Intel screen so I just added up the categories to get the totals.

Code: Select all

         Japan     Allies
 
 Total   15,194    12,252
 
 Air      7,711     5,290
 
 Flak       800     1,054
 
 Ground     944       274
 
 Ops      5,739     5,634
 

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: koniu
I look at my game with Docup. We achieve similar loses (+- few hundred) in July 44
So You game is much much bloodier in air.

I just got done looking at Mr. Kane vs Greyjoy and by Jan 45 they had 22K (Allies) 24K (Japanese) losses. This is the game where Greyjoy complained bitterly of being unable to wrest air control from Japan. Ki94 goodness, sadly a plane you won't see in this game.

Every game is different. In Mr. Kane vs Greyjoy loses where not dramatic problem but as You say Ki-94 was. This plane can strato sweep everything(48170ft celling[X(]

Most of games, at least my game, have air loses with ~2:3 ratio an allied favor.

[Lowpe]

It seems to me Joc vs Obvert was the harshest air war for Japan, that it lasted till July 45 helps of course, but Joc really pursued a full air war against Japan, but still the Allies lost only 24K planes if I recall correctly.

There is at least one ongoing AAR that I won't name that has higher Allied losses. Still looking...

[Mike McCreery]

I believe some players have missed the obvious.

Sometimes to win an air war you just need not to be there ;]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

I believe some players have missed the obvious.

Sometimes to win an air war you just need not to be there ;]

Not to be where? not to fight in the air? [&:]

There are times when that's possible, and there are times when its not.

[Mike McCreery]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

I believe some players have missed the obvious.

Sometimes to win an air war you just need not to be there ;]

Not to be where? not to fight in the air? [&:]

There are times when that's possible, and there are times when its not.

I play DBB so maybe it is true for stock.

[Lokasenna]

Holy cow, those air losses. I feel like my game against MM has been pretty similar in the air. Here's my side's losses as of 12/31/43 - pretty similar date, scenario 1 also. And we even have MechaGroups happening in our game.

So yeah. His pools have got to be hurting on some models:
P-40K
C-47
F4F maybe, but maybe he's not even using it
TBF
Hurricane-c
B-24D1
P-38H
Vengeance I

...really, a lot of models. I bet he has a lot of "ghost" groups, or groups using downgraded airframes.

[Lowpe]

Reinforcing Tavoy this turn, but most troops probably won't get there till next turn, we will see if they can hold.

Got tired of working on the turn and sent it away. Probably shouldn't have, but that is life.[:)]

Had a double repair day in the Sam J -- they aren't as common as the double repair days for the Ki202.

[Lowpe]

Quick and dirty intel analysis for the last 100 turns...

Pearl Harbor....off the charts.

Ports not really covered (i.e. no subs) showing lots of activity: Auckland, Tabitueia, Tarawa, Sydney

Expect ports: Colombo, Calcutta, Tinian, San Fran

I will dispatch some subs to Sydney and Auckland. Auckland might be a target for sub dropped mines and midget sub attacks. It has not seen hide nor hair of the IJN all game. We can't have that!

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

I believe some players have missed the obvious.

Sometimes to win an air war you just need not to be there ;]

Are you talking about it from the Allied perspective...avoiding the early war against Japan?

I try very hard to stay out of Jugs range (10 hex), only put planes on runways within 22 hexes with overwhelming CAP including George at high altitude, plus night fighters, plus AA. Other than that I try to keep planes at 0 DL bases far, far away. Still things slip occasionally.[X(]

Offensively, I will fly planes forward for one day missions, and fly them out again, preferably on railroads so I can save the damaged planes. This is of course horrendously gamey, as there is no way you could have done it to the degree I do in real life. But, then this is a game.

I try to stay away from Islands, and if forced to go there go with low SR planes.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Holy cow, those air losses. I feel like my game against MM has been pretty similar in the air. Here's my side's losses as of 12/31/43 - pretty similar date, scenario 1 also. And we even have MechaGroups happening in our game.

So yeah. His pools have got to be hurting on some models:
P-40K 715
C-47 1008 (jan 7, 1944)
F4F maybe, but maybe he's not even using it 890
TBF 1104
Hurricane-c 877
B-24D1 338
P-38H 267
Vengeance I 550

...really, a lot of models. I bet he has a lot of "ghost" groups, or groups using downgraded airframes.

I looked up totals on a spreadsheet. Bolded above, Allies get way too many planes, but I guess they need them. Japan gets way, way too many planes.[:D]

[Lowpe]

Quick quiz!

Allies have two plane models with over 5,000 totals --- can you name them?

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Yummy. P47s...[:D]

Here, does this bring back fond memories? Early 44.

Fond memories indeed. [:)]

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Quick quiz!

Allies have two plane models with over 5,000 totals --- can you name them?

F6F and F4F?

F6F - both 3 and 5 variant
F4F - F4F+FM variants

i will also bet F4U

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I managed to find one screenshot where Joc had lost a total of 56 P38H in mid Dec...very close to my date.

I am at over 200, so Allies have suffered a fair amount of losses, but not to really critical planes like the P47 (which in truth I try to avoid).

This comparison to Obvert vs Jocke, just goes to show me how much more bloody the air war is going to get!!!! I need to plan accordingly.

I didn´t use the P38H much. With PDU ON its not really competitive. Especially with the "2nd MVR band" HR. I relied almost exclusively on P47/Corsair for most of 44 and 45. Late in the war P38s were used as ablative 4E escort as I had good pools of them by then. Hellcats were also used for this. Pretty much only Corsairs, P47s and Spit VIIs that saw combat in the last two years. The rest were used as backwater bomber pilot trainers at bases in OZ! [:D] This probably skewers the results a bit. I also believe our game got extremely bloody in the last 6 months when I started the air campaign against the Home Islands. By then I had the P47N which is just insanely good and arrives in insane numbers (by Allied standards) of 100 planes per month. That plane is just unbelievably good. [X(]

I´m not sure but I think Erik may have been starting to have some problems with pilot quality in the end?

This is one of the reasons I really dislike PDU ON. It really messes up the air war. Especially for the Allied player who has to resort to all kinds of strange behavior to survive the Tojo/Frank hordes. In the end I don´t think it makes for a fun experience for either player. As the Japanese player you can make pretty much unlimited numbers of the best models but this leads to the allied player using only the best allied planes. And in the end the Jap player comes up with the shortest straw anyway because nothing beats a P47. Not sure where the fun is found in both sides using 2-4 models while 50 models that are in the game is simply not used. I really wish we would see more PDU OFF games because I´m convinced it will make a more entertaining game to play and follow. Hell I even saw Mowhawks and Boomerangs in combat in Eriks and GJs game. How can that not be cool?!

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: koniu

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Quick quiz!

Allies have two plane models with over 5,000 totals --- can you name them?

F6F and F4F?

F6F - both 3 and 5 variant
F4F - F4F+FM variants

i will also bet F4U

Wildkittens and Hellcats are my bet too. Not a chance the F4U gets over 5000 planes.

I know for a fact I had a couple of thousand Kittens in the pools when the war was over. As soon as the Hellcat came online I phased it out everywhere including the CVEs.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Quick quiz!

Allies have two plane models with over 5,000 totals --- can you name them?

Models, or lines? If it's individual models... I find that a little hard to believe, without doing up the numbers. It isn't until late war that the Allies get models with 200+ production each month, and they'd need to have that for over 2 years...

If it's production lines, then I'm going with 2 of the following:

TBF/TBM Avengers
Hellcats
Helldivers
Wildkittens - there are big differences between the F4F and FM models, though
P-40 with its various models, but again big differences

[Lowpe]

F6F-5 and the final Avenger are both over 5000, with the avenger over 5300 making it the most numerous Allied plane.

This inlcudes: production, replacement, and newly arriving squadrons.

[Lowpe]

Dec 24, 1943

Christmas Eve!; no night bombing.

The first day in five days where Japan loses more planes than the Allies 13-5.

Allied bombers show up in Indochina, where they sweep heavily and then bomb the troops north of Bangkok. Not very effective...thank you x3 terrain!

Chungking attacked...Chinese lose 235 squads destroyed and 400 more disabled (combat squads) and forts drop another level. Will rest for a day or two and attack again...the end is nigh!!!!

I should be able to attack again with 5000+ AV with the arrival of 600 AV in two days, and in a week another 450 will join. What a New Years Present, knock on wood! Chinese defenders will be below 2000 in AV.


The first and most effective of many raids on the dirt road north of Bangkok.