Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

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terje439
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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by terje439 »

Turn 121

Overall
The Germans are heading back to Moscow which if you ask me is the worng move. They should have pushed from the north towards the south-east and rolled up my front. That being said, I am not in the clear in the north yet, but things could be worse.
The Axis perform 14 attacks and score 5 held, 7 retreats and 2 routs. We on the other hand, launch 13 attacks and score 2 held, 10 retreats and 1 surrender, as the Germans did not manage to break the pocket.
Losses at the end of the turn are reported to be 43.000 Axis troops, and 88.000 of ours.
With 195.000 pair of hands reporting to the manpower pool, it ends at 559 this turn.

Units
I formed one rifle corps and created 4 rifle divisions and 2 rifle brigades. Some of my points was spent on reassigning some HQs and units as the Bryansk Front was disbanded this turn.
Our forces grew by 123.000 soldiers this turn.

Units Captured
34th Infantry Division
46th Infantry Division
377th Infantry Division

Partisans
We were left with 29 active units after the Axis performed 13 anti-partisan attacks this turn. Those guys then seem to realize that they need to work for their supply, and performed 32 acts of sabotage. Now this is what I want to see every turn. In return they recieved 32 supply drops.




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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by Flaviusx »

His CC is a mess. A possibly irrecoverable one now that it's mainly a corp based army.

The fundamental problem in this game, imo, is the Soviet has been behind the power curve by 6 months to a year and is playing catch up. Tank corps should have been completed 1 year ago. Rifle corps should have been started en masse from Jan 1 1943, and some Guards rifle corps should have been made back in 1942. Artillery divisions should have been started in October of 1942 and a good two dozen of those built. Etc. Etc.

You can't do all this stuff on the fly. The Soviet player needs to know all these things in advance and prepare for them and budget APs accordingly.

Instead, the Soviet entered 1943 with a mostly 1941 army and has been desperately trying to compress into a few months a process that takes a good two years.

I also don't believe he's been nearly as aggressive as he should be in counterattacking. Economy of force seems questionable.
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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by bigbaba »

maybe he made a mistake by attacking with his tanks in the north wood&swamp terrain.

this could buy you some time to do some payback in the south.

in my game vs sj i was in a similar situation. surprised with the new german stregth after 1.05 i had no real defensive line to fall back in 42 and also could not give up too many menpower centers. once the german forces you out of your front fort line its a frustrating game for the russian.

realy nice that you still try to get out of the situation. much respect.
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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by M60A3TTS »

I'll mention a couple things, Terje.

You said your refit policy is based on lowest units getting the troops. That is not really an ideal strategy as units which may be idle far from the critical fronts draws strength away from those that need it. If you do that, at least see if there are units on refit that are really not needing the additional men.

A corps in every hex. I think the fact that you lost confidence in the Soviet rifle division to hold their ground led you to put corps everywhere possible. That's really wasting APs. You might as well just stack 3 divisions in a hex if you are going to do that. At least then you have the flexibility to move divisions around that way. Then spend those same APs on other goodies like artillery divisions.

"I can't move a stack because now there is a panzer division there." Fine, attack another hex. He only has twenty-some panzer and SS divisions so they can't be everywhere. Get your artillery divisions in behind the guards rifle corps which have all their SUs with the Army HQ with a good leader that has artillery, sappers, etc. Then on top of that, you can ground bomb the hex for effect before the assault. But before that, it's little things like make sure your assault troops are not too tired and are at or near full strength. Again, that speaks towards managing refit. The Red Army really needs constant and active management to be successful.

You surprised me with the number of your units still on the map. More than I expected. But as Flaviusx said, your org is so scattered, half your troops are probably starving for supplies. Can't get to Berlin that way. Your opponent also has so many troops now, it's something of a long shot but see if you can hammer your way through where his fort line is thinnest. If you can get him in the open and not get swallowed up by his panzers you might yet get somewhere.



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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by terje439 »

Turn 122

Overall
Mud arrives, and I am grateful. I am slowly trying to reorganize the fronts after having done nothing but run run and run lately, but since the few points we have available are needed to build units, we will have to rearrange the front by walking. This will take some time, but I think it is relatively safe during mud. The Axis make no attacks this turn, while we make 1 scoring a surrender in the south.

Units
1 rifle corps is formed, and the construction of 4 rifle divisions and 2 rifle brigades is undertaken this turn.
Our forces grew by 114.000 soldiers.

Units Captured
3rd Rumanian Infantry Division

Partisans
And then we are down to a meagre 12 sabotague actions. And for this we send 30 supply drops. Those partisans needs a commissar with them to up their work morale it seems. After the Axis chase 16 units away, we are left with 30 units on the map.




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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by terje439 »

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

His CC is a mess. A possibly irrecoverable one now that it's mainly a corp based army.

The fundamental problem in this game, imo, is the Soviet has been behind the power curve by 6 months to a year and is playing catch up. Tank corps should have been completed 1 year ago. Rifle corps should have been started en masse from Jan 1 1943, and some Guards rifle corps should have been made back in 1942. Artillery divisions should have been started in October of 1942 and a good two dozen of those built. Etc. Etc.

You can't do all this stuff on the fly. The Soviet player needs to know all these things in advance and prepare for them and budget APs accordingly.

Instead, the Soviet entered 1943 with a mostly 1941 army and has been desperately trying to compress into a few months a process that takes a good two years.

I also don't believe he's been nearly as aggressive as he should be in counterattacking. Economy of force seems questionable.

Aka, don't play pbem as the USSR when you are learning as you go on [;)]

Terje
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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by terje439 »

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

maybe he made a mistake by attacking with his tanks in the north wood&swamp terrain.

this could buy you some time to do some payback in the south.

in my game vs sj i was in a similar situation. surprised with the new german stregth after 1.05 i had no real defensive line to fall back in 42 and also could not give up too many menpower centers. once the german forces you out of your front fort line its a frustrating game for the russian.

realy nice that you still try to get out of the situation. much respect.

Not really, he did make a mistake by first delaying to capture the divisions in the north instead of pushing south, but when he did, he should have pushed harder eastwards and gone around my unanchored flank. As things seem now, he only has 4 rifle divisions up there, but it is hard to detect those units in the woods, so there can be more there.

Nah, the game is lost, nothing I can do about that. If you ask me, I lost the game during the summer of -42, lost too many units. Now it is all about denying the Axis an autovictory, losing as few cities as possible, and capture as many units as possible.

When I started the game, I said to my opponent I was in for the long haul, that goes even if the game is lost.


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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by terje439 »

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I'll mention a couple things, Terje.

1. You said your refit policy is based on lowest units getting the troops. That is not really an ideal strategy as units which may be idle far from the critical fronts draws strength away from those that need it. If you do that, at least see if there are units on refit that are really not needing the additional men.

2. A corps in every hex. I think the fact that you lost confidence in the Soviet rifle division to hold their ground led you to put corps everywhere possible. That's really wasting APs. You might as well just stack 3 divisions in a hex if you are going to do that. At least then you have the flexibility to move divisions around that way. Then spend those same APs on other goodies like artillery divisions.

3. "I can't move a stack because now there is a panzer division there." Fine, attack another hex. He only has twenty-some panzer and SS divisions so they can't be everywhere. Get your artillery divisions in behind the guards rifle corps which have all their SUs with the Army HQ with a good leader that has artillery, sappers, etc. Then on top of that, you can ground bomb the hex for effect before the assault. But before that, it's little things like make sure your assault troops are not too tired and are at or near full strength. Again, that speaks towards managing refit. The Red Army really needs constant and active management to be successful.

4. You surprised me with the number of your units still on the map. More than I expected. But as Flaviusx said, your org is so scattered, half your troops are probably starving for supplies. Can't get to Berlin that way. Your opponent also has so many troops now, it's something of a long shot but see if you can hammer your way through where his fort line is thinnest. If you can get him in the open and not get swallowed up by his panzers you might yet get somewhere.

1. That was when there was still an organized frontline and units did not lose alot of troops turn after turn. At that time it seemed to work fine as in the end all unattacked units were above 60% strength. And yes, I checked every turn and switched refit off for units with TOE at 80+ (in the start I used 90+).

2. Well, the divisions fled as soon as anyone sneezed. They cannot hold, but I agree to the idea of keeping a division at the frontline. But in the future I will not be happy with my line before I have a division in front and a 3 high stack of corps behind it. The Germans laugh at divisions it seems, the corps atleast add some punch when they have some SUs attached.

3. True, and I never said I would not do so, but my point was more a "those godamn panzers are used to stop my advance wherever I get more than a few hexes deep", so they are stopping any breakthrough effect. A usual attack by me would look something like this;
a) fly as many bombing missions as possible against the target stack
b) make sure I have atleast 2:1 in unmodified CV, and use available artillery.
Were things ever as good as I would like them in this game? No. Again I will claim that I lost too many units in -42.

4. Nope not possible. The game is lost and has been for some time, now it is all about setting new goals for myself untill the end. We will go down kicking and screaming, but I have no possibility of any breakthrough for atleast 3 months. I need alot more rifle corps to form some sort of proper line, and move the HQ Zhukov to wherever I want to make the breakthrough, but for now the main issue is reaaranging the fronts.


Terje
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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by TulliusDetritus »

ORIGINAL: terje439

Aka, don't play pbem as the USSR when you are learning as you go on [;)]

Terje

Terje, don't say that! [:)] I always try to see the glass half full. A positive thing: you almost have the Red Army 2.0: lots of corps. You can't reassign them though, that you can't afford it. Now if you calculate the length of the whole front (let's say 132 hexes) and divide by the number of fronts you will know the area they should be (more or less) covering. Then assign a part of the front to each of the Front HQs. Then you should be railing the units to their correct front. First of all you really need a rational organization. If you have it, everything should be fine.

And above all, keep playing, see you in Berlin [8D]
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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by terje439 »

Turn 123

Overall
Still muddy, and I keep on rearranging the front (although todays picture is taken before I started to move units around). South of Moscow things are mostly peachy with purple - purple - purple - blue - blue - blue etc etc, but in the north, I estimate another two turns before things look as they should. The Axis launched one attack and scored a retreat, no big loss. They might think they are denying me the oppertunity of digging in, but I do not intend to hold the bulge anyway, but the more time I hold it, the more I can dig in to the rear.
Losses this turn are rather light, with 25.000 Axis troops listed as casualties, and 66.000 on our side.
The manpower pool recieves a total of 180.000 workers this turn, and ends at 15.

Units
I form 2 rifle corps (yes, I know you want me to use divisions, but that is not going to happen apart from now in the mud, the available divisions are at the front), and order the formation of 2 rifle divisions, a rifle brigade and 3 mortar brigades.
Our units grew by a total of 114.000 soldiers this turn.

Partisans
This turn it was the pilots that let us down, only 16 supply drops is not at all enough. After the Axis force 15 units to retreat, we are left with 33 units on the map, these guys then manage 24 acts of sabotague.

Planning
I am contemplating an offensive as soon as the winter hits, but not 100% sold on it yet, I will keep to fly recons to see if the situation changes.



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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by terje439 »

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
ORIGINAL: terje439

Aka, don't play pbem as the USSR when you are learning as you go on [;)]

Terje

Terje, don't say that! [:)] I always try to see the glass half full. A positive thing: you almost have the Red Army 2.0: lots of corps. You can't reassign them though, that you can't afford it. Now if you calculate the length of the whole front (let's say 132 hexes) and divide by the number of fronts you will know the area they should be (more or less) covering. Then assign a part of the front to each of the Front HQs. Then you should be railing the units to their correct front. First of all you really need a rational organization. If you have it, everything should be fine.

And above all, keep playing, see you in Berlin [8D]

Hehe. I think I am seeing this optimistically, by setting myself new goals [;)]
And if the reply sounded harsh, that was never the intention, hence the [;)] behind it. Flaviusx made alot of good points, however as stated when I started this AAR, I have NO idea what I am doing, I learn as I go along. I never started the game to make sure I win it, I wanted to learn the game better, and from my experience it is better to do so with a pbem game than one vs the AI.

As to how to divide the fronts, yes I understand all that, and that is the situation (and has been all along) in the south, however after a rout such as just happened in the north, things will look bad, atleast for me, as my idea was "flee, run for your lifes! Live to fight another day", so I moved them back as best I could. True, there were also some units there earlier that had the "wrong" colour, but that was to add strength as the front collapsed. And as allready stated, I really do not think spending those precious points on changing HQs is my best bet right now.

Terje
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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by terje439 »

Turn 124

Overall
The conditions are still muddy, and we are slowly getting our fronts organized. No attacks from wither side this turn means that losses are very light, at 23.000 and 58.000 respectively.
185.000 workers report to the manpower pool, ending it at 634.

Units
I form 2 rifle corps and 1 Guards Rifle Corps, and order the construction of 3 mechanized brigades.
Our forces grows by 113.000 soldiers this turn.

Partisans
17 sabotague actions and 20 supply drops is not alot, but it will have to do as it all that is performed. The Axis force 17 units to retreat, leaving us with 27 active units.



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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by terje439 »

Turn 125

Overall
The mud continues, and that slows down the relocation of units, but we are getting there albeit slowly. The attack planned in the north was obvious to the Axis as well, and more troops are spotted there now. No attacks are made by either side.
Losses are reported as 24.000 Axis troops and 49.000 USSR soldiers.
The manpower pool ends at 1 after reciving 182.000 workers this turn.

Units
I order the formation of one rifle corps and 2 guards rifle corps as well as start the creation of 2 rifle divisions and 1 rifle brigade. Our forces grew by 133.000 this turn.

Partisans
21 sabotague actions are undertaken by the 29 units left on the map after the Axis chase 13 units away. They are rewarded by 23 supply drops.




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randallw
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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by randallw »

Don't forget that armor does not attack into swamp hexes well. [:'(]
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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by Baelfiin »

Those PzGr showing up at vologda could mean the start of a winter offensive from north to south aimed at pocketing the vishny volochek bulge.

The german infantry should be starting to fade away now also as their ToEs drop.
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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by terje439 »

Turn 126

Overall
The first snow arrives, and my infantry divisions shows me once more that the only thing they do well, is to rout. Anyway, the Axis launch 18 attacks all along the line, scoring 2 held (corps on defense), 8 retreats (again corps) and 8 rout (all divisions...). We launch 9 attacks and get 1 held and 8 retreats. The good thing this turn however is the loss ratio. At the end of the turn, reports claim 48.000 Axis dead and 71.000 of our soldiers. That is a ratio I'll take anyday.
The Manpower pool recieves a total of 185.000 workers this turn, and ends at 92.

Units
I form 1 guards rifle corps (need another guards division for another now), a mechanized corps. Then I allow some of my HQs to spend a total of 15 points on SUs (these will be attached to my guards first), and order the construction of 3 mortar brigades.
Our forces grew by 123.000 soldiers this turn.

Partisans
15 acts of sabotage this turn, and 25 supply drops. After the Axis force 13 units to retreat, we are left with 28 active units.

Note
I find it far more fun to attack Rumanians, Hungarians and Italians, THEY rout. I guess that is why most of them are supported by German units [;)]



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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by terje439 »

ORIGINAL: randallw

Don't forget that armor does not attack into swamp hexes well. [:'(]

True, my aim was to cut above those two swamp hexes far north, and end up south of the large swamp next to the reservoir. Not going to happen now though, but I might be able to force some holes in the front and surround 1 or two units at a time unless the Germans bring more high-end units up there.


Terje
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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by terje439 »

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

1. Those PzGr showing up at vologda could mean the start of a winter offensive from north to south aimed at pocketing the vishny volochek bulge.

2. The german infantry should be starting to fade away now also as their ToEs drop.

1. I wish so, that should get interesting as that means they will go toe to toe with HQ Zhukov.

2. They are, alot of German 3-5 (offensive) CV infantry divisions now. This also means I can attack on most places, I just need to keep an eye out for those panzer stacks.


Terje
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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by randallw »

I'm surprised you don't have a large truck deficit, with all those mech corps deployed.  Are you short on tank corps?
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RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Post by terje439 »

ORIGINAL: randallw

I'm surprised you don't have a large truck deficit, with all those mech corps deployed.  Are you short on tank corps?

Vehicle pool is at 129.000 at the moment.
Well since I lost a few tank corps in the last German offensive, I guess I am shy a few (3-5 somewhere) from the recommended 24.


Terje
"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

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