Lunacy In The Pacific Mogami Vs. Tom Hunter

[Sneer]

In my Japenase game I think about stopping in april/early may 42 even when after successful blitzkrieg I'm on top of everything. you don't know you are overextended until it happens and is almost too late to do anything. South/cental pacific game is one of the easiest to start and one of the most difficult later to play for Japan IMHO

[Tom Hunter]

If you are not sure what Sneer is reffering too you need to go back one page and scroll down until you see the side by side maps of New Guinea and the New Hebridies.

There is an interesting (to me at least, and apperently to some others who posted) strategic question there.

[Sneer]

I think you have still too small net to hunt those 120k troops in PM - you can't cut that force from Buna and it certainly will trigger early CV battle on Japanese terms
taking GG is beginning of fight that will be extremaly difficult if not one step too fast too far
luganville is to be taken easily in this situation and I doubt Mogami will try to retake it
good question is :
Mogami went offensively . I'd like to know how is he prepped in salomons but I'd expect he isn't
such concentration of land units tempts to use heavy allied ships to bombard under land and CV based fighters at least till Mogami goes back with his carriers.
one is certain you can't depend on 1 isolated airfield as in bad weather you will be massacred
do you have locations of all Mogami big LCUs ?

[Ron Saueracker]

This in from Mogami
back, I guess TJ and others are right about the game going too fast....wait
it's Aug 42 and Allies just retook their first base. Does it have to be the
exact base in order for it to be correct? As far as all that extra supply
and fuel goes I've been hampered by a lack of fuel (I often have to wait for
supply but I am able to scrape it up but fuel is killing me)

whenever I seemed not to be doing anything it was simply a lack of fuel. I'd
be interfering more with you at efate but I'm dry from Saipan south. I've
resorted to refueling off transports and larger ships to get smaller ships
at sea.
I wanted to loiter off Efate with my CV but half of them went into the red.
As a result I could not cover resupply/reinforcement or even surface combat
TF.
(sorry this is supposed to be a no whining game but sometimes I wish people
would at least play Japan for a year before making up their minds about how
easy they are to play)

I'd be very interested in seeing the list of bases on screen after they have been filtered for most fuel. One also must remember that I suspect most of Mogami's (or anyone else's) units have been at sea constantly flying around at full speed bombarding the snot out of everything etc.

[2ndACR]

I never had a problem with fuel or supplies in our long game me and you had going Ron. And i did have ships moving constantly everywhere. I ran low on supplies a few times, but this was when all my industry repairs were taking place. Fuel was never a problem. Just had to pick it up and move it to where needed.

[Sneer]

a clue to running everywhere is running at cruising speed at most of the game
I spent almost 2 months out of base with my KB and highest sys dmg was 8
it helps a lot with fuel too
I have never experienced fuel problems but also never moved whole fleet so far south

[Tom Hunter]

Sneer,

I suspect you are right and that I might very well lose the battle. As I attempt to put the TFs together for the invasion I am running up against the fact that I don't have that many APs or even AKs available in the right locations.

At the same time it would be lots of fun to win the war in late 42.

Mogami captured the NEI very quickly so he should have plenty of oil and fuel. But he has the habit of loitering with his CVs and I am sure that burns up lots of gas.

I am glad something slowed him down.

Though I believe Sneer is correct I am still doing some planning for an attack on Gili Gili. It might rate after all, and even if I do not hit the place soon I will have to hit it sooner or later. Also I would not fight the 120,000 troops, the point of the attack would be to isloate them and remove them from the Japanese OOB by trapping them in PM.

At the very least I need to set up for an interception battle and try to prevent Mogami from removing them.

[Ron Saueracker]

How much fuel is required to lift 120,000 men into Port Moresby? These invasions are bloody huge and require massive sealift. One would hope a smidgen of a fuel issue occurs but unfortunately I suspect the shortage reported has more to do with constant huge ops requirements in play with WITP rather than any sort of accuracy regarding fuel, resources or the logistics model in general.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

I never had a problem with fuel or supplies in our long game me and you had going Ron. And i did have ships moving constantly everywhere. I ran low on supplies a few times, but this was when all my industry repairs were taking place. Fuel was never a problem. Just had to pick it up and move it to where needed.

That also given the fact that much of the DEI was still mine into Aug 42. Says something regarding the preponderance of fuel/resources/supply no?

How were your holidays by the way?[:)]

[Monkey]

How about taking gg with minimal forces to mask the major effort towards Luganville?

I think there are a few benefits here, the big prize is not so much the 120k isolated starving troops in the short term but if Mogami wants them back in the war, you can make him pay dearly, now thats a big long term dividend, that being the cost in ships and a/c to get them back.

Mogami I hope would go for a retake of gg, no easy task as its under lba from the mainland,

Even a small force of lba from GG can interdict Buna adding to the woes of the PM force before its snotted to bits.

Go for the the 'hit them where they aint' policy, and GG looks unoccupied?

You can prepare the PM battleground, moving 120k troops will surely give give you lots of tasty targets, you can really hurt the ija and ijn bigtime and with luck maybe get a swipe at the KB as well

Its a great diversion too [:)]

[Tom Hunter]

Monkey,

Diversion is an interesting idea but I think the place has too large a garrison. Plus when I come calling I like to stay. [:D]

After looking at the forces available and especially the sealift available I have decided not to invade Gili Gili but I am going to build up Thursday Island as much as possible. Within a week it will have another base force, a US infantry division and 2 Seabee units. That will bring the garrison to 1 XX, 1 RCT, 4 BFs, and 2 battalions. A Marine CD unit is also on the way and so is additional supply and fuel. There are already 13 PT boats and an APG there and 50,000 supply. The airfield will be L3 in a short time.

Thursday is 5 hexes from Port Moresby and with that kind of force plus heavy bombers from Cooktown (L6 over 240 AV) it can keep PM suppressed. Prince of Wales and Repulse are at Townsville and Mogami does not know this so I may be able to raid with them as well. The should also do well interdicting shore bombardment, and with 150 fighters overhead they might even survive an attack by KB, or be strong enough to prevent Mogami from attacking at all due to the risk of Allied CVs coming into action after the downing of many Zeros, Kates and Vals after an attack on Thursday.

Nothing much happened in the last 2 days. The Japanese defenders dissapeared from Efate, apparently that last bombing rounds did the trick. Wildcats have started bombing Luganville and their experience is begining to climb. More BFs and engineers will show up at Efate in the next week and then the air attacks can get serious.

Thursday and Efate give me one thing I have needed for a long time, bases in range of the Japanese for training American, NZ and Australian fighter pilots. By mid September I expect to be able to go toe to toe with the experienced Zero pilots and win.

[Ron Saueracker]

Tom...how bad is the leader situation?

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

Also I would not fight the 120,000 troops, the point of the attack would be to isloate them and remove them from the Japanese OOB by trapping them in PM.

At the very least I need to set up for an interception battle and try to prevent Mogami from removing them.

If this is your premise for the battle and the reason you to think it’s worth the risk of an early CV battle, I’d say don’t do it (at least not yet). Until you can fly long range cap over Port Moresby 24/7, Mog can simply fly in tons of bombers and transports to Rabaul and empty the base at Port Moresby pretty quickly.

I routinely move divisions and brigades around very rapidly via air transport, the only stuff that won’t move is the heavy guns and vehicles and mog can easily replace those given the Japanese unlimited equipment production.

The risk reward factor doesn’t seem to balance out here. At least not until you can stop him from air transporting out the force.

Jim

[Tom Hunter]

I posted an update on leaders a few days ago on the leader bug thread.

I have not gone looking for more trouble since I took a look at the Russians, but I did find some trouble while organizing some naval moves. That is documented in my last post.

I plan to keep updating the spreadsheet and posting it on the forum. I hope that will help push a fix forward. At the very least it should kill the idea that the bug does not happen very often.

I have not seen Halsey for a long while, and I don't think Spruance still exists either. Mitchner is on a CV now hopefully he will not vanish.

I also noticed that the Brits don't really have any superior admirals even Sommerville is only in the 60s. Also their agression is low which is why I keep using Palliser. To me this seems totally off base the British had the most aggressive navy in the world during WWII.

I think I will post that on the main board for comments.

[ADavidB]

I also noticed that the Brits don't really have any superior admirals even Sommerville is only in the 60s. Also their agression is low which is why I keep using Palliser. To me this seems totally off base the British had the most aggressive navy in the world during WWII.

If you think that the Brit Admirals have grim stats, take a look at most of the generals that are available to command the Brit Air HQs!!!! Their air stats are so bad that it is laughable in many cases.

There are so many small things that make so little sense in this game...

Dave Baranyi

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

I also noticed that the Brits don't really have any superior admirals even Sommerville is only in the 60s. Also their agression is low which is why I keep using Palliser. To me this seems totally off base the British had the most aggressive navy in the world during WWII.

If you think that the Brit Admirals have grim stats, take a look at most of the generals that are available to command the Brit Air HQs!!!! Their air stats are so bad that it is laughable in many cases.

There are so many small things that make so little sense in this game...

Dave Baranyi

Lends some credence to those who believe Gary grigsby designs do favour the underdog and advocate balanced play more than historical feel.

[Tom Hunter]

Mogami is back from his New Years adventure.

I am still getting oriented after a few days vacation from the game. Here is the theater by theater breakdown.

China

A Japanese army is now outside Kaigan, and a Chinese army of 170,000 is inside. More Chinese are on the way, but this is the same size army that has successfully defended other L9 forts so I think the place will hold.

India - Burma
More British troops have left the Akyab hex on their way to Mandalay and a Chinese division has advanced one hex towards Rangoon. The Chinese are opening the Akyab - Rangoon trail so the supply will flow once the main army comes down from Mandalay.

British airforce training is going well, Mogami is afraid to ambush the RAF now that is has lots of Spitfires so training raids are a regular feature now.

SW Pacific
Another base force unloaded at Thursday Island bringing the AV to 90. The Kittyhawks based there have been bombing Japanese ground troops at Port Moresby and are the first Australian fighter groups to have their XP get into the 60s. A US infantry divisions and a Seabee unit are only a couple of days out once they arrive the place will be about as strong as Port Moresby was before the battle started there.

Now that Thursday is L3 Beauforts based there will start bombing Port Moresby, the goal is to keep PM airbase shut indefinietly. Since the Allies can fly fighter sweeps over it I believe that is a reachable goal, the Japanese can put up LR CAP, but fighter sweeps will quickly burn that up and leave plenty of opportunity for the bombers.

In the South Pacific engineers and base forces from Lifou are loading onto ships and moving to Efate. Once they arrive the pace of bombing against Luganville will pick up and the Allies will finally get a well trained fighter force in place. Right now the airfield is only AV 30 so one Wildcat group and some Aussie Spitfires are bombing. They have both gained 4 XP but it will be much better when 4 Marine groups are pounding away. I am so looking forward to fighter parity with the Japanese.

The best part of the last few days was the struggle for the American seaplane base on Vanikolo. On the 23rd the Japanese tried to take the place from a small force of Marine Raiders:

Naval bombardment of Vanikolo, at 72,103

Japanese Ships
DD Kasumi
DD Asashio
DD Hagikaze
DD Hamakaze
CL Kiso
CL Naka
CA Nachi
CA Haguro
CA Maya


Allied ground losses:
143 casualties reported

Ground combat at Vanikolo

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 2156 troops, 16 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 510 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0


Japanese ground losses:
138 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported

Go Marines Go! Allied bombers are going to attack the Japanese ground forces and some DDs are on the way to shore bombard. The North Carolina is on the way to Efate and might move further North in support of the Island, and I am considering loading some re-inforcements onto an APD or two.

It is a small battle, but the little island is half way between the big Allied base in Noumea and the big Japanese base in Lunga. When PBYs are there it gives the Allies two days warning of a sortie by KB so it has a lot of value. Because it is so far from LBA it is also a likely location for surface battles.

So maybe we will end up in a protracted struggle for an island that does not even have a base on it. More exiciting than filling swamp on Lifou anyway.

[jrlans]

Are the US CVs in a position to stirke Vanikolo? If so you might be able to catch some of his supplies still in the AP and AKs. Also with KB currently retired it might be good for the US CVs to sortie and try to catch some japanese shipping with out too much risk.

Also you could load a small AO up and take some PT boats up to Vanikolo to prevent any japanese rienforcements or supplies getting in should allow you hold the island if sucessfull

[Tom Hunter]

The US CVs are in Noumea, easy striking distance to Vanikolo.

There are no Japanese ships at Vanikolo, yesterday 4 US DDs bombarded the Japanese ground troops and there were some small airstrikes as well.

KB may be back in Japan refitting, but it might also be sitting in port at Tulagi. So no big moves to Vanikolo.

But that is what makes it interesting, we are both fighting for it but with relatively small forces. I just loaded some Marine Paratroopers on 3 APDs to beef up the Allied forces there.

[jrlans]

Are your PBYs still fuctioning out of the base or were they evaced when enemy forces arrived?

I ask because do you think it might be worth it to park a small surface TF (a CL and 3 DDs or something of that nature) just south of Vanikolo to intercept any shipping that comes that way. Also this could have the side effect of lurring KB out if it is in the area.