Gen.Hoepner vs. Hawker, Mare Nostrum

Post descriptions of your brilliant successes and unfortunate demises.

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Gen.Hoepner
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RE: Java is lost

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

ORIGINAL: TheElf
ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42

Ok some important things to be said today.

He has probably decided that Southern Russia is a tough nut to crack so he's moving towards my northern border ( Bozrya) some 15 units ( i'd say something like 100,000 men, not more imho). I have nearly 1500 APs at Bozrya and few more infantry units in the proximity, with hundreds of bombers that can keep destroyed and fatigued his units. No way man![;)]

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Ok this is a critical point for you in Russia. First, how certain are you that the units approaching Borzya from the south are detached from his original Southern Army on the outskirts of Vladivostk? My point is this. If he brought in additional units to probe Borzya and did not subtract them from the original army in the south you still don't know how well you will be able to hold out in either location. If they were taken from Vladivostok, it means his Southern ARmy is weaker than it was, but you still have no measurement of his strength versus yours, just that you position in the south has improved, slightly.

If they are previously uncommitted units it means he is probably attempting to cut off your main supply line from Mother Russia through Irkutsk. You MUST keep that railroad clear of Jap units. You will essentially be fighting a two front war in Russia so hold on to Vladivostok of course, but the supply line to your surviving units in the south should be your #1 priority.

In the North: What do you have 1 Hex NW of Hailar? Are those units foritfied? How fortified/prepped is Borzya itself?

If your units NW of Hailar are unfortified, I would recommend you get as many units on the north bank as you dare (all prepped for Borzya) and give him one good walloping as he crosses. Then head north and hunker down. Make a show of your position and force his Shock attack across the river and then high tail it to Borzya to settle into you(hopefully) Level 9 fort. Also consider, you will need some good CAP to beat back his IJAAF units he'll likely use to disrupt your LCUs with.

Finally, IF he is frustrated by your defenses in the South and is looking for any easy way out, Blagovyeschesnk will be his tertiary route. It may in fact be his primary route, but is looking to split your forces North/South before consolidating in the middle and taking Blagovyeschesnk. WATCH HIM LIKE A HAWK. You'll need to keep a core group of units here that are all prepped for its defense. The good news at Borzya is that you have a river crossing combined with a fort, so you may be able to skimp a little here. Just be ready.

My opponent was thrown back the first time he tried to invade Russia, mostly due to his not understanding ground combat, and not respecting the Soviets. But eventually he won what should have been the decisive battle at Borzya and cut my supply lines to Vladivostok. Fortunately he could not afford to keep all his LCU's in Russia (**due to my pressing him in China**)and gave me the opportunity to reopen the railroad to the south.

Russia is a game of cat and mouse combined with Smoke and mirrors. He will try to out manuever you, find a weak point, and exploit it. He can afford to lose a couple battles. YOU CANNOT. Once you lose at Borzya, or Blago you will likely lose Vladivostok if he knows what he is doing. Likewise if you lose Vlad...you well, lose Vlad. It is not an easy problem, especially since you are not going to get any more AV pts. When the ground war starts your cumulative AV will steadily decrease. The only relief will come in the plentiful supplies from mother Russia.

Good luck...we're all counting on you.[;)]



Elf, thanks for the great support!

Ok, let's analyze it.

Ok this is a critical point for you in Russia. First, how certain are you that the units approaching Borzya from the south are detached from his original Southern Army on the outskirts of Vladivostk? My point is this. If he brought in additional units to probe Borzya and did not subtract them from the original army in the south you still don't know how well you will be able to hold out in either location. If they were taken from Vladivostok, it means his Southern ARmy is weaker than it was, but you still have no measurement of his strength versus yours, just that you position in the south has improved, slightly.

His original southern army has not changed. At least in terms of numbers of units. Still 27 units north of Vlad, with 6 on the southern borders and 16 at Mutakiang, plus 3 more units assaulting my western regional forts. So a gran total of 52 units for the south. This number has not changed since the beginning of may ( more or less).

My understanding is that he has brought those units mainly from the borders ( most of which are now undefended on his side). I'm using my wellingtons from Bozrya and BLago to recon constantly his movements and bomb those advancing units. Of that group i've spotted for sure the 2nd Hvy Gun Regiment. But in the next days i'll take more infos. Belo is safe for the moment: he has only one division ( which is daily bombed) on the border and then nothing in his back ( Tsitsihar is undefended-the unit u see is marching northwards). Bozrya is defended by 1500 APs ( almost). One motorized bde will be joining these positions in few more days). On the border i have one regiment, just for some advanced recon poruposes. I'll move my units southwards on the northern side of the river in the next days. Bozrya is at level 9 forts, obvioulsy.

Also consider, you will need some good CAP to beat back his IJAAF units he'll likely use to disrupt your LCUs with.

The IJAFF is being kicked out of the sector for the moment. Hailar is costantly bombed and is almost closed. 150 bombers are costantly hitting his positions there ( Pe-2 are hitting the AF, while wellingtons are suppressing his units). 75 fighters are providing CAP with one Air Army.


However, i'm keeping the 2nd red banner army hq with 2 divisions and 1 mot bde as a reserve at Belo. If i managed to keep the control of the skies it's gonna be quite hard for him to overun my positions at Bozrya....

but yes: it's going to be a bloody bloody summer in Russia...

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String
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RE: Java is lost

Post by String »

BTW, I do still suggest directing the long range bombers vs his aircraft, engines and naval shipyards. Will hurt him much more in short term than pounding HI or oil.
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Mike Solli
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RE: Java is lost

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: String

FIREBOMB GUMMA!!!!

Nasty Capitalist scum. We peace-loving Japanese just want what's rightly due us.[:D]
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Gen.Hoepner
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BBs located!

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/02/42

I've spotted the 20 Army moving towards the north of Manchuria. 16 units in total. Not that much also because i know not all of them are full divisions. I think i can handle him here if i manage to remain the lord of the skies of Northern Russia...

At Vladivostok things are getting hot again. He's now using his bases in Japan to bomb Manchuria. 100 zeros are back in the area, which means that he will try to fight me back. Anyway, 55 unescorted sallies have turned back when they saw my CAP over Vladivostok. His BBs have been localized by my subs near Sasebo. He will try to bomb Vladivostok, for sure. My Beauforts are waiting to put some fishes into their stomache[;)].

Anyway, we're still on the egde here. None has won the match yet.

In China he's moving in strange directions...as soon as i understand what's going on here i'll make some statements...
What's sure is that the only air force present in China are 1 Daitai of Zeros and 1 sentai of Oscars at Canton.

For the moment my 4Es will be busy in keeping his AFs shut in Manchuria. When, and IF, we'll have enough forces to free them up from this task, they'll be used to bomb Japan back to stoneage.



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Gen.Hoepner
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RE: BBs located!

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

3rd of June 1942

BBs moving towards Russia and main positions of IJAAF and IJNAF for the Russian campaign

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Gen.Hoepner
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RE: BBs located!

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

China

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Gen.Hoepner
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NEW BUG?!?!:-(

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/03/42


Can somebody explan this?!

He sent 120 zeros on sweep mission at Nakhodka. I had no fighters there. However at Vladivostok 150 fighters were based but with 0 range. Anyway, 21 of them decided not to follow my orders and moved to intercept the zeros. It's ok. Understandable at least.
They were shot down. It's ok...but then the zeros went on and on and on...keeping shooting down planes that were not there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At the end of the day i lost 73 fighters, 52 of them never moved away from Vladivostok!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT THE HELL!!!!!!
Will this happen again!!?!?!??! If so there's no way to fight there, cause the planes that were shot down even not being involved in the fight could not fight at all...

My russian fighters pools are empty and this kind of things really screw my defensive plans[:(][:-][:-]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Day Air attack on Nakhodka , at 66,34

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 115

Allied aircraft
I-16 Type 24 x 8
Yak-1 x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 12 destroyed, 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
I-16 Type 24: 29 destroyed
Yak-1: 43 destroyed



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PzB74
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RE: NEW BUG?!?!:-(

Post by PzB74 »

Afraid you understand my frustration about 'leaking CAP' now Hopener... I've been forced to
move my CAP away from bases that are adjacent to hexes within range of enemy fighter sweeps and bombers.
E.g Kavieng-Rabaul. Seems like this 'leakage' ignores not only orders but also actual fighter range.

An unfortunate set of events made even worse by the high kill ratios in air to air battles.

The only thing that helps is to order your CAP to LRCAP a TF in the hex you want to protect!
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pauk
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RE: NEW BUG?!?!:-(

Post by pauk »

but the main problem here, IMHO, is that more planes destroyed than it was involved in the combat...
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Andy Mac
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RE: NEW BUG?!?!:-(

Post by Andy Mac »

yup that was just nasty some leakers fair enough but it should be limited to the fighters that actually leaked
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Gen.Hoepner
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RE: NEW BUG?!?!:-(

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

Guys, here the problem is that 3/4 of the planes destroyed never took off from Vladivostok!!!!

Two squadrons were involved. 1 of Yaks and 1 of I-16s. Both based at Vladivostok ( 1 hex distant) with range 0.
Some fighters decided to intercept 60 miles away from the position ordered. It's ok. It's even historical under some POVs.
The key is that those who were not involved, but that were of the same unit, have been destroyed too, even if at 60 miles away from the battlefield!!!
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Andy Mac
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RE: NEW BUG?!?!:-(

Post by Andy Mac »

I think we are all agreeing with you GH. Arguably the 20 ish fighters that actually were present were fair game but to kill others not present is a bug it has to be.

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PzB74
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RE: NEW BUG?!?!:-(

Post by PzB74 »

This assumes that we can trust the combat replay - but we can't!

The number of ac actually 'leaking out' to protect a nearby base can not be trusted.
If the combat replay showed 21 ac it's actually possible that the true number was 73.
I've seen this happen with escort missions and LRCAP missions as well.

There are several examples of this in my AAR!

Must admit that your case is one of the more extreme Hoepner, but the bigger CAP you got
the more leakers you will have. I'm really sorry I missed the discussion about including leaky
CAP that lead to its integration into WitP - fole criminals I tell ya!

A simple solution would have been to add an option called 'Base CAP Priority' - CAP fighters over this
base set to 80% base CAP priority. Thus 2 out of 10 CAP fighters would have been allowed to protect nearby
targets. Without any control at all it is impossible for Japan - or Russia to protect their bases as their
slender resources doesn't allow them to spread their assets thin.
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PzB74
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RE: NEW BUG?!?!:-(

Post by PzB74 »

Dug up an example from my AAR:


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/11/43

Air Combat

Another example of how 'leaky CAP' chews up my air defenses piece by piece.
Going to try to LRCAP a patrol craft in Emirau tomorrow. Will they also protect
the base..and not 'leak' to Kavieng?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kavieng , at 61,86

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 6

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 27
P-47C Thunderbolt x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 12 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 1 damaged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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jwilkerson
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RE: NEW BUG?!?!:-(

Post by jwilkerson »

Can somebody explan this?!

No - but I've had it happen a number of times ... at first I thought it was inadvertant "escort" even though I had range set to 0 ... I was flying recon missions ( from another base farther away ) to the "hex in question" .. but even after I turned off the recon planes ... I was still "leaking" fighters ... sometimes ... so ... as stated earlier ... solution was to pull back fighters ... one thing I didn't try was changing leader to someone less agressive ... maybe hyper-agressive leaders cause this ... ( though in my opinion it shouldn't happen anyway ).

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Mike Solli
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RE: NEW BUG?!?!:-(

Post by Mike Solli »

He's lost 875 Zeros by June 42!?[:(] Ouch. He should be out of decent pilots by now.

In my PBEM, I've lost 38 Zeros (Mar 42) and I don't like it.
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Gen.Hoepner
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RE: NEW BUG?!?!:-(

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

Bug or not, war goes on.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/05/42

Important things to report today my dear readers!

- It seems that we managed to understand where Hawker has decided to use his 10 divisions after Java. 35 units suddenly appeared at Canton! Many APs/AKs spetted in the Harbour. We tried to attack them with few bombers based at Wuchow, but his zeros managed to kick my butt out of the skies there. Also the sight-In report tells me interesting things:

-5th Engineer Regiment is loaded on AP,Heiyo Maru moving to Canton.

So it's clear that he wants to fight back in China. With 350,000 men he can change the balance there. He's also trying to move his divisions from Hankow towards Nanchang. the 35th Division today crossed the river, shock attacked and got clobbered[:D]! Anyway, i see the plan: hold my forces around changsha while his 10 crack divisions march from Canton northwards. My plan will be changing.
I have enough men and enough supplies to fight this match in China. I'm here, ready to fight!

Japanese CVs spotted in Tokyo Harbour....my b-17 will pay a visit there[:D]

Mutakiang is still closed.

waiting for his 20th army to attack my northern russian perimeter....




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 48,36

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 24701 troops, 326 guns, 7 vehicles

Defending force 118035 troops, 623 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
5010 casualties reported[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]
Guns lost 56
Vehicles lost 5

Allied ground losses:
140 casualties reported
Guns lost 5




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Arstavidios
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RE: NEW BUG?!?!:-(

Post by Arstavidios »

Well, if his troops are in China they are not in the Pacific so you may launch a few attacks there to remind him this is a game about the Pacific war.
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pauk
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RE: NEW BUG?!?!:-(

Post by pauk »

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner


Japanese CVs spotted in Tokyo Harbour....my b-17 will pay a visit there[:D]

Nice intel - how did you managed to get this info - air recon, by subs or something else?
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Gen.Hoepner
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RE: NEW BUG?!?!:-(

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

ORIGINAL: pauk

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner


Japanese CVs spotted in Tokyo Harbour....my b-17 will pay a visit there[:D]

Nice intel - how did you managed to get this info - air recon, by subs or something else?


just move the cursor on Tokyo Base.
I think it's related with the high intelligence allied capacity....or maybe it's just because of the Catalinas...do not know.



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