OT Things to ponder

[wdolson]

We don't have cockroaches here. My SO has lived most of her life in the Northwest and never saw a cockroach until she was in Louisiana. I found rosemary deters deer too. Deer are legion around here. Cheeky buggers too. They just stand and look at you until you get about an arm's length from them. I hit one with a rock once and it just looked at me. A few days ago I found a deer must have climbed in the window of the greenhouse to eat the strawberry plants. The scallions I had growing in there didn't deter the deer, though they didn't eat the scallions.

We already had some rosemary planted when I put in some blueberry bushes. The blueberries next to the rosemary are never bothered by the deer, they chomp the other blueberries. I did catch a racoon picking berries last year. I thought it was neighborhood kids because only the ripest berries were picked and they were taken from spots too high for rabbits and too deep in the bush for birds. Damn critters with opposable thumbs!

Lots of wild mammals around here.

[Lecivius]

Something to ponder

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Something to ponder

Where is this cold-and-dirty looking beach?

[patrickl]

It is 6 Jun. That is Normandy.[&o]

[Lecivius]

Omaha Beach, to be precise. Looking at this picture, imagining a stormy sea, that enormous expanse of sand, and the bluffs to the left manned by veteran troops with heavy and automatic weapons...


Jesus wept.

[joey]

I had a great uncle that was there on June 6, 1944. He never spoke of that day.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Omaha Beach, to be precise. Looking at this picture, imagining a stormy sea, that enormous expanse of sand, and the bluffs to the left manned by veteran troops with heavy and automatic weapons...


Jesus wept.

Indeed.

xxxxx


Can it be classified as stormy sea that morning? And the defenders as veteran troops?

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Omaha Beach, to be precise. Looking at this picture, imagining a stormy sea, that enormous expanse of sand, and the bluffs to the left manned by veteran troops with heavy and automatic weapons...


Jesus wept.

Indeed.

xxxxx


Can it be classified as stormy sea that morning? And the defenders as veteran troops?

Yes- the landing took place in the one-day lull between two very strong storms and the sea was still choppy from the first one. Almost all the troops were seasick.
Yes - worn-out veterans of the war against the Russians were often sent to quiet fronts to rest up and to share their expertise with non-veteran troops.

[Lecivius]

Oh, it was stormy. The waves swamped & sank the tanks with skirts, and the LCT's. So there goes your close in support.

Defenders were the 352 Infantry division, made up of survivors from various units from the Eastern front, mingled with fresh troops straight out of training.

Imagine trying to run across all that sand, with a full pack, in the rain, seasick, green as grass, cold as all get out, confused and terrified, into a good half dozen machine gun nests, rifle trenches, mortar fire, direct artillery, and gawd knows what else. This particular attack almost failed. There was serious thought of abandoning the beach. The guys that finally went past the one sea wall & fanned out...almost defies the imagination.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius
The waves swamped & sank the tanks with skits

The reenactment of 'Who's on First' must have been disastrous to behold.

[Kursk1943]

Recently I read a really interesting alternative history book about it:

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Kursk1943

Recently I read a really interesting alternative history book about it:

Can you at least give us an idea if he came up with a plausible plot and had good writing? How long after D-Day does the book cover?

[rsallen64]

I grew up next to a neighbor that was at Omaha that day. He told me that the officers had a white bar painted on their helmets to identify them to their men (you can see this in Saving Private Ryan, I believe). The Germans caught on quickly, and began picking off the officers. He said you never saw guys grab mud and sand so quick to smear on their helmets. I actually convinced him to come to my High School history class in the very early 1980's and talk about his experiences. He was very nervous, but did a great job. He brought some stuff from the war with him, including a map he saved from the invasion. It was a very moving experience for me, especially after his wife told me he never talked about the war to her, but he liked me a lot (he was a civil engineer and was teaching me things, and used to take me along on jobs he did after he officially retired, so I could earn some money in my early teens), and agreed to come to my school because he liked and respected me. He served in Italy, Normandy and the Bulge, and they offered him a commission to go to the Pacific after VE Day, He told them to go to hell.

He passed a few years ago. [:(]

[Kursk1943]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Kursk1943

Recently I read a really interesting alternative history book about it:

Can you at least give us an idea if he came up with a plausible plot and had good writing? How long after D-Day does the book cover?

Well, I'm no native speaker, so I don't dare judging the writing style, but it was good reading for me. The description at Amazon characterizes it quite well:

"Tsouras firmly bases his narrative on facts but introduces minor adjustments at the opening of the campaign-the repositioning of a unit, bad weather and misjudged orders-and examines their effect as they gather momentum and impact on all subsequent events. Without deviating from the genuine possibilities of the situation, he presents a scenario that keeps the reader guessing and changes the course of history."

The story finishes end of June 1944.

[rustysi]

I did catch a racoon picking berries last year.

I've heard mint will keep them away. Don't know if its true though.

[rustysi]

green as grass,

IIRC for the 29th ID, yes. Not so for the 'Big Red One' behind them though.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: rsallen64

I grew up next to a neighbor that was at Omaha that day. He told me that the officers had a white bar painted on their helmets to identify them to their men (you can see this in Saving Private Ryan, I believe). The Germans caught on quickly, and began picking off the officers. He said you never saw guys grab mud and sand so quick to smear on their helmets. I actually convinced him to come to my High School history class in the very early 1980's and talk about his experiences. He was very nervous, but did a great job. He brought some stuff from the war with him, including a map he saved from the invasion. It was a very moving experience for me, especially after his wife told me he never talked about the war to her, but he liked me a lot (he was a civil engineer and was teaching me things, and used to take me along on jobs he did after he officially retired, so I could earn some money in my early teens), and agreed to come to my school because he liked and respected me. He served in Italy, Normandy and the Bulge, and they offered him a commission to go to the Pacific after VE Day, He told them to go to hell.

He passed a few years ago. [:(]

I thought the white bar was on the back of the helmet, though a sniper might catch a glimpse now and then.

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
I thought the white bar was on the back of the helmet, though a sniper might catch a glimpse now and then.

I am almost positive the bar was on the front. I'll have to go looking.

<edit>

And once again I am proven wrong. Hard to find a pic, a lot of them must have ditched the target helmets straight away, but I did find this one.

[tarkalak]

It is on this page somewhere 2/3rds down.

http://www.101airborneww2.com/equipment2.html

White bar makes you more manly I guess. [;)]

An officer would have to maintain situational awareness and I think he would need to look in all directions at times, so snipers might still see his stripe.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
I thought the white bar was on the back of the helmet, though a sniper might catch a glimpse now and then.

I am almost positive the bar was on the front. I'll have to go looking.

<edit>

And once again I am proven wrong. Hard to find a pic, a lot of them must have ditched the target helmets straight away, but I did find this one.

The white arc on the front of the helmet must indicate the unit or perhaps medics. I can't see that many officers assisting one wounded man when there must be orders to give. So that means one of the other guys has a white vertical strip that looks like medical tape on the front/top of his helmet and the guy on the right has it on the back of his.