Wild Sheep Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Something else that may be helping is that I use Fusan exclusively to ship from Manchuria. So all of my CS convoys travel two hexes back and forth rather than 15-20.

How do you manage that the Machurian ressources come to fusan? Mine all flow to Port Arthur.

This is a Pax special method. I listened during his explanation in Mike Solli's AAR . He outlined that you have to start early and commit to the change, and shift CS routes over time to stop using Port Arthur.

Here it is in steps. Luckily I started within days of the beginning of the campaign.

1. Move a ton of engineer units to Fusan. Build port to the max (8). Set to hold resources, fuel whatever else you want here.

2. Set up at least two CS convoys, starting small, and set them to go between Fusan and Fukuoka or somewhere close. He works it so they pass in the night and are at opposite ports during the load/unload.

3. Wait for these small convoys to begin drawing resources to Fusan, and as it gets bigger things will speed up. Once they are going well and loading each day to leave, then add more ships until they are big convoys that send 30,000 or so a day back and forth.

It will take time, and judging by the small amount of surplus here it may not seem like it's working because there will still be more stuff in Port Arthur. As long as the ships are full and go, it's drawing here.

Obviously extra naval support helps. I now have the Combined Fleet HQ here as its range still hits big ports in Japan but most of it is used to speed things up and create more of a draw here.

4. As these begin to take the load stop convoys from Port Arthur and Keijo. It takes time to 'train' the AI to send the stuff to a new place, but it won't work well if you're still drawing it from there. I still have one operating from Keijo but should probably turn it off as it's completely redundant by now.

-Optional-

5. Conquer China (at least to join the rail) and use the rail lines from Singers to draw fuel up over land only. This is still in the process of me trying to figure it out. But the pieces are in place and it just might take time. If it works, that's a lot of fuel and ships saved. [:)]

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]25 June 1942[/font]
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West Australia: At Geraldton Nells destroy one vehicle and damage five. Not overwhelming, but they flew at least.

So Pac: Troops unload at Mornington Island during the night. An SNLF and an AF Coy will occupy this spot and it will slowly build into a recon airbase. Jakes will be here at first. These little units could get crushed by 4Es but for now it should be useful I can always airlift them out if there is trouble.

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China: At Chihkiang 2 more P-40s are destroyed and 22 listed damaged in today's attacks. These raids also get over 80 runway hits, 24 supply hits and around 30 service hits. It will be are to defend here I'm thinking. The Chinese still have 3 big Corps out in front of the base. The stacks on either side of the road junction, both river crossings, have around 160,000 troops each. I'm guessing around 2,500 AV in good defensive territory. This could be the biggest battle of the war to date as our army is bringing in 6,000 AV. I'm a bit worried about massive losses. But it has to happen.

I'm toying with the idea of crossing with around half of the force to get something there and limit disablements to those units in the first crossing, then walking the rest over and having a fresh army to finish them off. Or is it better to risk the whole lot and aim for a 2 to 1?

DEI: A few supply TFs are running down here from Tokyo to Soerabaja and Singapore to begin increasing the HI.

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[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: obvert


This is a Pax special method. I listened during his explanation in Mike Solli's AAR . He outlined that you have to start early and commit to the change, and shift CS routes over time to stop using Port Arthur.

Not sure how special a method this is, but thanks for the "honourable mention". [;)]

I actually start from Fusan and never pull any resources from Asia except via Fusan. By the time I get Fusan to lvl 8, I am able to easily ship the resources I need to balance the HI along with Hokkaido. Note, this only works with the latest patch. A key is to never, ever not have a convoy loading resources at Fusan. To make this easy, I simply use a lot of small CS convoys. 2 - 4 ships per TF. They load and move and are always in motion. Simple.

Nav Support does not help with loading resources (unfortunately). Just port size and whether there is any resource production at that base. Fusan has a small resource (20 I think) to help a little.

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]6 June 1942[/font]
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subs: RO-60 just completely misses with two shots at xAK Examiner near Sydney. Odd that I've had so many clear misses from subs, and this time no escorts are listed in the report. How about another shot or two, eh?

West Australia: Fast transport TFs are gathering SW of Carnarvon to meet up with the Mini-KB and swing through to Esperance. Recon is scheduled to fly there in the form of 34 Bettys with high experience pilots, so hopefully the information will be good enough to make a call here. Tanks are likely 1 to 2 days out of Carnarvon. I think the Allies are expecting a landing at Geraldton, as there are the tanks there and 54 fighters plus now 41 bombers listed at Perth. The recon also shows 38 auxiliary aircraft. That's a lot. What are those? Can't be all Cats, unless a lot of US groups are here. Other types in a damaged state?

Only one group of Bettys can fly at Carnarvon without going into the red at the level 3 base. It should go to level 4 within the week. Then we go. In the meantime some sweeps will begin to whittle down defenses over Perth.

I wonder if we'll find any P-38s there? I haven't seen any to date, so there must be enough of a pool to run one good group in a combat role. That would be an unwelcome surprise here, but it would be my move, so I'll try to prepare as best I can for them. If it's just Kittyhawks, those have next to no replacements, especially after taking at least 30-35 losses in the past few weeks. One week of zero sweeps, regardless of their strength, and air superiority would be ours.

So Pac: Mornington Is. is captured.

Also, the blip, most likely the Allied CVs, has shown up again between Norfolk Is. and the W coast of NZ. It could be moving to base in Aukland or Wellington. Looks like they didn't move on to OZ, which is a good thing.

China: At Chihkiang 4 P-40 destroyed, 13 damaged. The IJA stack has moved to within one hex of the units on the fork in the road in front of Chihkiang. He'll know what is coming more or less now I think. We'll see if that changes anything. All ground units within a week's movement range of the base were bombed yesterday to inhibit movement should they be looking to reinforce. I think these 3 units at the crossing will move to one side or the other. Our troops will probably go the direction they do not.

Just past Hami the CAF came out of hiding and hit our tanks using 18 SB-III. They did well, disabling 11 and destroying 1, but in a DA the Chinese force here was still pushed back after a 10 to 1 attack. The tanks will now pull back and an AF Coy will be flown in to Hami with an Oscar group to follow.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 81,16 (near Hami)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1751 troops, 4 guns, 185 vehicles, Assault Value = 105

Defending force 2086 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 49

Japanese adjusted assault: 91

Allied adjusted defense: 9

Japanese assault odds: 10 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:


Allied ground losses:
1042 casualties reported
Squads: 71 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 31 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units retreated 2


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
13th Tank Regiment
20th Recon Regiment
15th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
9th Separate Brigade
21st Chinese Base Force

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PI: The garrison for Manila is 2 days away. Then the brigade will go to Singers to prep and await amphib and combat forces for a run to Diego Garcia. A group of Jakes on an AV is scouting Diego starting tomorrow.

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[obvert]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: obvert


This is a Pax special method. I listened during his explanation in Mike Solli's AAR . He outlined that you have to start early and commit to the change, and shift CS routes over time to stop using Port Arthur.

Nav Support does not help with loading resources (unfortunately). Just port size and whether there is any resource production at that base. Fusan has a small resource (20 I think) to help a little.

I did not know this! It does help with fuel and oil though, right? It sure seems to when I get the HQ to Palembang.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: obvert

This is a Pax special method. I listened during his explanation in Mike Solli's AAR . He outlined that you have to start early and commit to the change, and shift CS routes over time to stop using Port Arthur.

Not sure how special a method this is, but thanks for the "honourable mention". [;)]

I actually start from Fusan and never pull any resources from Asia except via Fusan. By the time I get Fusan to lvl 8, I am able to easily ship the resources I need to balance the HI along with Hokkaido. Note, this only works with the latest patch. A key is to never, ever not have a convoy loading resources at Fusan. To make this easy, I simply use a lot of small CS convoys. 2 - 4 ships per TF. They load and move and are always in motion. Simple.

Nav Support does not help with loading resources (unfortunately). Just port size and whether there is any resource production at that base. Fusan has a small resource (20 I think) to help a little.

I did something similiar in my game as well. Used Port Arthur early in the game only for resource extraction, I never touched the oil or fuel. All the while I was building Fusan up to level eight. Soon Port Arthur wasn't able to stockpile resources, but Keijo and Fusan were. Now Keijo only keeps a 30k+ surplus of resources on occasion and everything else goes to Fusan. I suck Fusan dry of resources, but every week or so another 100k+ or resources arrives to then be shipped to the Home Islands. I will start tracking the interval of the resources arriving at fusan for you obvert.

I also have just a couple of small tankers at Fusan which loads up about 10k of fuel for the Home Islands. I have to watch this closely as it's easy to pull it out too quickly and then stocks at Keijo and Port Arthur go down too much and other HI producing bases in China/Manchuria don't get their fuel allotments. I have no problem drawing these small amounts of fuel for transport to Japan proper on a regular basis. I will also start tracking the exact amount and interval of fuel drawing to Fusan.

I envy your vehicle point pool. I'm producing over 1100+ daily as well, but can't get my pools above 3000. I have no idea why and there hasn't been that much combat of my armour units so I just don't know where the vehicle points are going. [:(]

I do still have over 4 million fuel though in Feb. 43. Oil is a problem though at less than a million, so I'm beginning to panic. Oil is my number one priority to get excess back to Japan.

I love the economy and production side of Japan though, and it's still the major draw for me to play them.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I suck Fusan dry of resources, but every week or so another 100k+ or resources arrives to then be shipped to the Home Islands. I will start tracking the interval of the resources arriving at fusan for you obvert.

I have no problem drawing these small amounts of fuel for transport to Japan proper on a regular basis. I will also start tracking the exact amount and interval of fuel drawing to Fusan.

That's great. Thanks. Very interested to see from your game where it's been going for so much longer.

I envy your vehicle point pool. I'm producing over 1100+ daily as well, but can't get my pools above 3000. I have no idea why and there hasn't been that much combat of my armour units so I just don't know where the vehicle points are going. [:(]

I guess they're used for any kind of motorized support as well as armor. So it could be those keeping your pools low if you've had lots of actions lately.

I do still have over 4 million fuel though in Feb. 43. Oil is a problem though at less than a million, so I'm beginning to panic. Oil is my number one priority to get excess back to Japan.

I love the economy and production side of Japan though, and it's still the major draw for me to play them.

It is what makes it so fun to play this side. The challenge and the ability to control slightly more.

So I was wondering about the oil situation. Refinery rate must just always outstrip the amount of oil, no matter what you do. So toward the end the HI refineries might not be working at full capacity it seems. That's I suppose why it's so important to keep the DEI until late in the game.

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]7 June 1942[/font]
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subs: RO-65 finds a TF with and xAP, but gets attacked and hit 3 times, not seriously, by DD Downes. Similarly, I-7 is found and hit twice (one penetrating) by the DDs. Both are limping back for repairs.

Spearfish is found by the ASW TF following the Mini near Carnarvon, but no hits are close enough to cause damage. O-23 sinks an ACM here as well. More ASW will begin roaming around just around the base.

West Australia: Esperance looks to have only 1 unit. Not sure if this is accurate, but the mission will go forth on this theory regardless. The Bettys will back off and recon another spot for a few days, then come back here for another look.

Recon also shows 52 more fighters and another 45 bombers in Kalgoorlie. Why are they there? Maybe on the way to Perth. Is he going all-in for this corner of OZ? 2 groups of Rufes and another zero group will fly in within a week. Defending ships unloading and troops moving will be critical.

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So Pac: The small Coy on Mornington Is. will now resume dot base clean-up. It'll take Groot Eylendt and other dots nearby on the way back to the DEI.

China: Looks like the troops to the north of Chihkiang are the weaker force with only 120,000 right now. This might be the better direction to try. Near Hami 14 SB-III come back and bomb our armor. They are turning around and air support plus 12 Oscars will fly in. This will take about a week.

At Mengtze the Chinese troops are pushed into the wilds and lose a third of their strength again. The IJA will not follow them into the mountains and if they come back to haunt us so be it. These IJA units will move back into Kunming to rest up. Supply is slowly building there but all it seems from local industry, not up from Burma. I'm about due for a load of supply to head to Rangoon.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Mengtze (68,50)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 13624 troops, 120 guns, 213 vehicles, Assault Value = 512

Defending force 6714 troops, 15 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 147

Japanese adjusted assault: 137

Allied adjusted defense: 40

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Mengtze !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), preparation(-), fatigue(-)
morale(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
85 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled


Allied ground losses:
2208 casualties reported
Squads: 113 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 82 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 3


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
14th Tank Regiment
33rd Division
6th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
5th Chinese Corps
NCAC
16th Chinese Base Force

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DEI: Divisions are loading in anticipation of having a closer port to Perth for their unloading, either in Esperance or in Geraldton.

Burma: Lots of nothing is happening here just now. Just building up bases and monitoring supply. There are about 15,000 Allied troops in Akyab now. Recon alternates between that base, cox's Bazaar and Chittagong which is a major fighter base. Imphal is also built up to a level 6 and holds around 3 British fighter groups judging by recon. Every week or so I 'scout' the forest by aiming a bomber group at every hex I can't see to find out if there is a unit sneaking over to hit any of our lightly held bases in Burma. Within 2 months I'd like to have 3 divisions here, and another 3 before '43 rolls around. This is in addition to the 2 holding the mountain passes at Kunming.

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[zuluhour]

All of the is from reading Mike Solli's AAR just as I was beginning the game. Good timing. He of course figures out the exact amount needed and calculates the ships to run that amount. I just run as much as I can.

I confess to reading 2 IJ AARs, of course Mikes is one. I gather more intel from his AAR on IJ logistics and capabilities, I almost feel guilty.

Note: I'm reading backwards here; while dissapointed Mike will have to delay his war its nice to find another from the dark side.[;)]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

All of the is from reading Mike Solli's AAR just as I was beginning the game. Good timing. He of course figures out the exact amount needed and calculates the ships to run that amount. I just run as much as I can.

I confess to reading 2 IJ AARs, of course Mikes is one. I gather more intel from his AAR on IJ logistics and capabilities, I almost feel guilty.

Note: I'm reading backwards here; while dissapointed Mike will have to delay his war its nice to find another from the dark side.[;)]

I'm certainly missing Mike's AAR lately as well! But I think he's up to some more important logistics right now.

Thanks for the interest and I hope you learn enough that you just get intrigued and try out the other side one day. But even if you don't you'r always welcome and can add info on Allied capabilities any time. [;)] It is fun to play the IJ, and difficult to get a handle on, but worth it at least right now. I might not be so cheerful in two years game time, but that's the price I've got to pay I guess.

I stop by and look into quite a few Allied AARs, not so much to get info, but to learn about strategy and tactics. There are so many good Allied players that mutually support each other, and the discussions are always entertaining. I wish there were a few more willing to get involved on the Japanese side right now.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I envy your vehicle point pool. I'm producing over 1100+ daily as well, but can't get my pools above 3000. I have no idea why and there hasn't been that much combat of my armour units so I just don't know where the vehicle points are going. [:(]

I guess they're used for any kind of motorized support as well as armor. So it could be those keeping your pools low if you've had lots of actions lately.

That is typically the big user until your armor starts getting beat up and you have to replace AFV's.

[zuluhour]

But I think he's up to some more important logistics right now.

No doubt: Kandahar: March 1943: My best friends brother : OT but thoughts with Mike.



Wow, Ive been playing this game to long! March 2012!!!!!

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]8 June 1942[/font]
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subs: Plunger is sighted first by the Cha sub chasers near Ominato. This is an improvement, if a small one. Next up, a DC attack.

West Australia: These are tense moments. I'm afraid to recon Esperance any more and I have no idea if new units are moving in there. 3 fast transport TFs are moving with the Mini-KB toward a line even with Perth before they cut in out of fighter range and race toward Esperance. If this works then plan is to fly in two AF Coys with Tinas and then have a fighter presence right away so the Mini would not have to remain here vulnerable. There is a sub screen near Adelaide to hopefully give some warning and a few DDs will also patrol 10 hexes out from the main fleet toward the SE.

Two divisions are loading at Tilityap to come in here as well. They will take a deep route to stay out of search range and sub zones.

So Pac: No sign of any sigint or ships moving. The scout forces are building up and waiting to reorganize at Canton Island.

China: Some tense moments. Today I send many many troops over the river to their fate near Chihkiang. I'm hoping the Chinese are short on supply and haven't built a whole lot of forts here. I'm also hoping they have fewer troops than it looks like they do. My guess based on recon numbers and the number of units is somewhere near 2,500-3,000 AV. Our troops are worth 6,000 AV. This is tough terrain, so it could be a bloodbath. Fingers crossed.

Bombing continues at all nearby bases and of ground troops on the roads nearby, in case they are on their way to reinforce. If the IJA does not take the place on first attack another will come most likely no soon than a week later. If Chinese troops can be kept from getting there quickly it will help a lot.

The Lusu War Area is eliminated finally. Unfortunately a stronger version will appear soon in Chungking.

DEI: Another division from the PI is unloading at Singapore. It will reembark soon on a better amphibious TF. The Junyo is days away from here with Suzuya to begin repairs.

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[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Today I send many many troops over the river to their fate near Chihkiang. I'm hoping the Chinese are short on supply and haven't built a whole lot of forts here. I'm also hoping they have fewer troops than it looks like they do. My guess based on recon numbers and the number of units is somewhere near 2,500-3,000 AV. Our troops are worth 6,000 AV. This is tough terrain, so it could be a bloodbath. Fingers crossed.

I wish I would have caught this prior to your move. I tried something similiar in my AAR with comparable numbers and took horrendous losses, Two divisions completely trashed with disruption and disablements thru the roof for the remaining troops. It took my forces months to recover. Biggest lesson I learned was this, use the 1/3 rule to your advantage. I would split my AV into two groups. Assault with the first group and let it take the brunt of the losses. As long as you crossed with at least enough AV to cover 1/3 of the defenders AV, your follow up group could cross without a required shock attack and no disruption. Then you'd have 4000 AV in good shape to grind down the defence while your initial wave recovers.

I hope it goes better for you then what I experienced. My assault was much later against Chinese troops who were in so-so shape, also low on supply, yet I got smacked hard. Maybe the pressure you've put on will have rendered this group less effective. My fingers are crossed for you.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: obvert

Today I send many many troops over the river to their fate near Chihkiang. I'm hoping the Chinese are short on supply and haven't built a whole lot of forts here. I'm also hoping they have fewer troops than it looks like they do. My guess based on recon numbers and the number of units is somewhere near 2,500-3,000 AV. Our troops are worth 6,000 AV. This is tough terrain, so it could be a bloodbath. Fingers crossed.

I wish I would have caught this prior to your move. I tried something similiar in my AAR with comparable numbers and took horrendous losses, Two divisions completely trashed with disruption and disablements thru the roof for the remaining troops. It took my forces months to recover. Biggest lesson I learned was this, use the 1/3 rule to your advantage. I would split my AV into two groups. Assault with the first group and let it take the brunt of the losses. As long as you crossed with at least enough AV to cover 1/3 of the defenders AV, your follow up group could cross without a required shock attack and no disruption. Then you'd have 4000 AV in good shape to grind down the defence while your initial wave recovers.

I hope it goes better for you then what I experienced. My assault was much later against Chinese troops who were in so-so shape, also low on supply, yet I got smacked hard. Maybe the pressure you've put on will have rendered this group less effective. My fingers are crossed for you.

I really thought long and hard about this move. I just don't have the confidence that a partial crossing would render losses any less than going in full. The problem is that the first wave of 2,000 AV would be screwed up completely. That would be 5 divisions plus with probably 50% losses or higher.

At Sian I faced a similar situation on a slightly smaller scale and took a major defeat from the first attack. I was devastated and thought it would be months, as you say, before I could carry on. What I learned was that only several units would take the majority of the damage, and when supply started to flow back in it was I think two weeks before the army was in a functional state again. That is about what I'm expecting here. The advantage is that I can dump a lot of supply in while the Chinese will not have the ability to regenerate as quickly. Especially considering what Jocke has (perhaps unwisely) told me about the Chinese supply situation.

So, it is risky, but not I don't think more risky than losing up to five divisions for maybe two months. I'm gambling that 2/3 of my force will be able to go after 2 weeks and 3/4 of it ready within a month. I do have one healthy reserve division in the area and one brigade that can also come across over the next few weeks to add in.

It's all a big experiment, but this road must be cleared to make any advance, so the battle needs to be fought. If the Chinese can eventually be pushed back into the rough hex just behind them the IJAAF will hold them there long enough to make it a rout.

On an interesting note it still appears as if the small flanking force moving into the Chungking area has not been spotted yet!

[SqzMyLemon]

Pretty sound reasoning obvert. I couldn't do the same in my situation, simply for the fact the Chinese could cycle in reinforcements faster than I'd be able to recover. A Verdun was the last thing I needed.

Depending on your actual squad losses and the number of disablements, you'll be able to comment better than I can on moving forward from here. [8D]

[PaxMondo]

obvert, I'm with you.  Just change to combat for the river crossing.  That's worked the best for me.  Splitting forces has always been worse for me becuase after the van guard is trashed, i can't move anything across.

[SqzMyLemon]

Yeah, I'm probably not the right person to be offering advice on river crossings. [:D]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Yeah, I'm probably not the right person to be offering advice on river crossings. [:D]

Actually, that is what I was going to say!!!

[:D][:D][:D]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Yeah, I'm probably not the right person to be offering advice on river crossings. [:D]

Actually, that is what I was going to say!!!

[:D][:D][:D]

All of the advice I can get is useful, even if I decide against it in the long run. I would like to try a few different methods of shocking across rivers, but that seems like a good few days of tests in an early war save some rainy weekend when Jocke is away and no turns are coming through. Right now I've just got to go with my gut and see what happens.

Worst case as I see it is we don't damage the Chinese forces much and have to eventually pull back to regenerate, thus losing several months. Even so I could keep a holding force there myself and just pound away with arty to kill supply over time, then go again.