Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J)

[Bif1961]

The game does not display the strength of the BT-7, BT translates to fast tank. It uses the Christie suspension system, developed and reject by an American for US armor. The BT-7 is a very fast tank that can also run without tracks and the 45 MM gun when other armies light tanks were 37 MM or lighter. However, after-all it is a light tank and was not meant to stand up to medium or heavy tanks. The T34/85 is a medium tank with a heavy tank gun. The T-34/76, which was first deployed in 1940 would run over anything the Japanese have during the entire war. The Germans were shocked by both the T-34/76 and the KVII, only an 88 MM AT gun could take out the KVII. Just imagine if the Soviets had T-34/76 and KVII the Japanese would just surrender.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

The game does not display the strength of the BT-7, BT translates to fast tank. It uses the Christie suspension system, developed and reject by an American for US armor. The BT-7 is a very fast tank that can also run without tracks and the 45 MM gun when other armies light tanks were 37 MM or lighter. However, after-all it is a light tank and was not meant to stand up to medium or heavy tanks. The T34/85 is a medium tank with a heavy tank gun. The T-34/76, which was first deployed in 1940 would run over anything the Japanese have during the entire war. The Germans were shocked by both the T-34/76 and the KVII, only an 88 MM AT gun could take out the KVII. Just imagine if the Soviets had T-34/76 and KVII the Japanese would just surrender.

Yeah, and the larger existential threat of the time for the Soviets is of course happening in Europe.

It'll be interesting to watch. So curious what we can do here.

[obvert]

No turn for a few days. Lowpe must have a lot going on in his other game or something! [;)]

Hope all is well with him. I'm itching to get the new reality of the active Soviets figured out. I'll post some more about the first turn of their action today.

[Encircled]

Playing one of the old scenarios on Combat Mission Barbarossa, the BT-7 was being knocked out by 37mm anti-tank guns from all over the map.

Definitely fast, but your AT assets (such as they are!( should actually be able to handle it.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Playing one of the old scenarios on Combat Mission Barbarossa, the BT-7 was being knocked out by 37mm anti-tank guns from all over the map.

Definitely fast, but your AT assets (such as they are!( should actually be able to handle it.

Well, I'm fielding them this game as the Soviets, so I hope Jeff's AT assets can't handle them!! [:D]

As far as I know, the game doesn't model "fast" in the numbers.

[Encircled]

Ha! Jeez, I'm forgetting which side is who now.

Getting old!

Be interesting to see how they stand up to his Tank Divisions, because I can't see them being used anywhere else.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Ha! Jeez, I'm forgetting which side is who now.

Getting old!

Be interesting to see how they stand up to his Tank Divisions, because I can't see them being used anywhere else.

He will use tanks here I'm sure. I think one of them still has to form up though. Never know how much he's bought out from Manchuria already. I would have the tanks all moving to Sian by now!

Speaking of that, I'm very curious if China goes quiet now. If I can get Russian supply to move there and build up some Chinese Corps that could really put a damper on his efforts on the continent. So curious to see if I can get it moving from Urumchi, and if he makes a move to stop that. I could at least send units up there to fill out, which would still have an effect and make a transition to offence in China much more smooth.

[adarbrauner]

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

The game does not display the strength of the BT-7, BT translates to fast tank. It uses the Christie suspension system, developed and reject by an American for US armor. The BT-7 is a very fast tank that can also run without tracks and the 45 MM gun when other armies light tanks were 37 MM or lighter. However, after-all it is a light tank and was not meant to stand up to medium or heavy tanks. The T34/85 is a medium tank with a heavy tank gun. The T-34/76, which was first deployed in 1940 would run over anything the Japanese have during the entire war. The Germans were shocked by both the T-34/76 and the KVII, only an 88 MM AT gun could take out the KVII. Just imagine if the Soviets had T-34/76 and KVII the Japanese would just surrender.

*KV1*

[Encircled]

He's going to have to make sure Burma remains Japanese as long as possible, which means he'll be very weak on his perimeter elsewhere.

Course, the KB won't really be needed in the Sea of Japan so thats still a factor, but hell, they are going to be opportunities galore.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

ORIGINAL: Bif1961
Just imagine if the Soviets had T-34/76 and KVII the Japanese would just surrender.

*KV1*

It is KV-1 and KV-2, not some Roman looking numbers. Both were beasts in terms of armor early war. And mobility disasters, especially the latter

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

He's going to have to make sure Burma remains Japanese as long as possible, which means he'll be very weak on his perimeter elsewhere.

Course, the KB won't really be needed in the Sea of Japan so thats still a factor, but hell, they are going to be opportunities galore.

If he is feeling pressure in the Aleutians and/or wants to do some amphib ops, the KB could be involved. He will then have to watch out for silent Ivan. [:)]

[Encircled]

The more I think about this the more I feel he's got to go "all in" on the Soviets.

He can't be passive on the border, as time is against him.

But if he manages the knock out blow......

[ny59giants]

I've wondered if it was feasible to take on the Soviets in late 42/early 43 after China has been knocked out.

[Bif1961]

So is it WW2 or WWII or are both acceptable? I have seen some publications list them as KV-I and KV-II, there was also a KV-85. I would concede that KV-1 and KV-2 is used more frequently in the books I have but some do still use KV-I and KV-II.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Bif1961
So is it WW2 or WWII or are both acceptable? I have seen some publications list them as KV-I and KV-II, there was also a KV-85. I would concede that KV-1 and KV-2 is used more frequently in the books I have but some do still use KV-I and KV-II.

Russians have always used arabic numbers for their tank models. Books that use Roman numbers are plainly not paying attention and are probably not so good books in the end. WW is irrelevant here.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

So is it WW2 or WWII or are both acceptable? I have seen some publications list them as KV-I and KV-II, there was also a KV-85. I would concede that KV-1 and KV-2 is used more frequently in the books I have but some do still use KV-I and KV-II.

I think someone got lazy and shortened the KV2/85 (where the 85 refers to the gun mounted in that version) to KV85. The Russians seem to have kept the chassis and up-gunned a lot of their tanks as the war showed the need.

[Bif1961]

Actually the KV-2 mounted a 152mm gun and was used before the KV-85 was made.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Actually the KV-2 mounted a 152mm gun and was used before the KV-85 was made.

I stand corrected - was sure I had seen the KV-2/85 designation somewhere.

[Bif1961]

You might have but the KV-2 was a KV-chasis with a boxy turret with 152mm gun, the KV-85 came out later and had a turret like the T-34/85 on the KV chasis.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

The more I think about this the more I feel he's got to go "all in" on the Soviets.

He can't be passive on the border, as time is against him.

But if he manages the knock out blow......

I don't know. To be honest I don't know why he wanted to keep going and play with the Soviets active. Curiosity? a challenge?

The Russians should be very good defensively, much better than the Chinese, with much more supply. Soviet base off map gets 4k a day plus the on map industry. The arty and big divisions plus all of the tanks and good territory, plus forts in every base. If he uses only the 8-9k in Manchuria then the Russians outnumber the IJA by quite a bit, too.

This is very early. He still needs to take the PI, Singers and Java. Each of those can take some time. He'll likely want to push forward a bit in China, or try to knock it out. It seems to me that summer 42 is a much more likely time for a big push in Soviet territory. By then every base will be forts 6+ and there should be a big supply buffer, plus the Chinese could get involved more if supply flows there from the NW deserts.

If he also wants to hold So Pac and No Pac he'll have to continue to add troops, air groups, IJN and supply to those areas. The KB can't be everywhere.

Until ASW air is better (bomber pilots and FP pilots trained to 70 ASW skill by about March-April 42) I'll be hitting the sea lanes hard with all of these new subs and all of the old ones. It's going to be dicey for his ships for a while, too.

I'm looking forward to this new kind of game, but I predict it'll be tough for the Japanese for a while. Not that he won't dominate parts of it as usual in 42-43. He'll have a huge superiority in the air once the Tojo arrives and the Helen gives him an armoured bomber. The George, Jack and Frank will ensure an advantage into mid to late 43. In the Soviet area this will be even more pronounced as the replacements don't arrive until late 44.