RHS 5 & 6.758 comprehensive update uploaded/frozen/final?

[el cid again]

Turns out the AA regiments are 100% overstrength! At one time I thought that disabled referred to the number disabled of the total - so when I said "24 guns 24 disabled" I thought it meant 0 working. I fixed that almost everywhere - but not here. So this will certainly help. AI fixes disabled too fast anyway - and going to twice the total cannot be good - for three regiments!

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

Tullius, you cannot base battleships in enemy base. Soerabaya will be Jabanese before those slooow BBs will arrive, they will became easy points if used.

Not so. As Allies I always send a division of 4 to Australia immediately - and concentrate British units at Soerabaja. But if I want to, I can easily beat the Japanese to Singapore from Hawaii. It is a week sailing time.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Monter, who knows [:)] It's part of the uncertainty. You can't affirm "they won't hurt the Japanese". You may say it, but you may be wrong.

Because after all:

1st hypothesis: the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor. They manage to damage the BB's. The cost? Very experienced pilots, true.

2nd hypothesis: the Japanese do not attack Pearl Harbor. The allied player may try to create a big mess in the Southern Area. Alright, they will be massacred... but hey, what will be the cost? [8D] Japanese Carriers or land-based planes attack TFx (with 2 BB's) in (example) Java Sea... They are sunk. Ok... and what about the losses due to AA? The Japanese will have to repeat these attacks 1 or 2 or 3 times. More planes losses. You must count these losses too and compare them with the losses in PH. And I still insist, in the process, these BB's will damage, hurt the Japanese. Or we have to assume that the allied player will be 100% incompetent? Why? [8D]

In other words, you will lose these planes the same, in PH or in the Dutch East Indies. But your transports (and troops) will have to face obsolete monsters. Don't forget to add damaged Japanese BB's, CA's, etc. (I'm being optimistic. I am assuming they won't manage to sink any important Japanese ship).

I never have the slightest problem dealing with Allied ships with land based bombers. KB is not required in SRA early on.

[el cid again]

All 5.371 files are uploaded - including CVO and RAO

[el cid again]

I am uploading ONLY location files for the RHS scenario set - which turns them into x.372 -
to address Sneer's concerns about first turn AA losses at PH.

Turns out some units had too many AA guns (due to a technical misunderstanding on my part)
and others had non-disabled AA guns (Army AA ammo lockers were locked and inaccessable for the
first wave) - and many units wholly unmanned. I modified Manila, Singapore, Clark and Pearl for this test.
It may or may not fold in to the official x.4 scenario when I get the files back - but except for this it is virtually
the same.

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I am uploading ONLY location files for the RHS scenario set - which turns them into x.372 -
to address Sneer's concerns about first turn AA losses at PH.

Turns out some units had too many AA guns (due to a technical misunderstanding on my part)
and others had non-disabled AA guns (Army AA ammo lockers were locked and inaccessable for the
first wave) - and many units wholly unmanned. I modified Manila, Singapore, Clark and Pearl for this test.
It may or may not fold in to the official x.4 scenario when I get the files back - but except for this it is virtually
the same.

Sid,,Will this only affect the AA at those "first turn locations", or will this bleed over into later dates,places??

[el cid again]

1) The AA regiments 100% overstrength will now be normal forever

2) The disabled devices should restore at all these locations

3) Nothing at any other location will be affected in any way

What happened to turn 1 PH strikes?

Sid

[m10bob]

Just for kicks, here is the offical USN history of the PH raid. Near the bottom, you can see the amount of American AA expended, by calibre!

http://www.history.navy.mil/docs/wwii/pearl/CinCPac.htm


To me this report is a fascinating read with details on deployment,(including extra dive-bombers which were being transported to Midway!)

Here is the ammo report..

(a) 5"/51 cal. 150 rounds
(b) 5"/38 cal. 1,665 rounds
(c) 5"/25 cal. 1,523 rounds
(d) 4"/50 cal. 4 rounds
(e) 3"/50 cal. 1,741 rounds
(f) 3"/23 cal. 1,060 rounds
(A) CASUALTY REPORT (a) Own (b) Enemy (a) Own Casualties. On 9, 18, and 24 December, 1941 (Cincpac serials 02016, 02054, and 02108, respectively), reports were forwarded to the Secretary of the Navy listing all dead and wounded, by ships and stations, resulting from the Pearl Harbor Raid. (b) Enemy Casualties. Deduced from reports available to the Commander-in-Chief, it is estimated that the enemy lost, due solely to Navy action, a minimum of 68 killed, about one-quarter of whom were undoubtedly officer pilots. An estimate of wounded cannot be made. One officer (Ensign) was taken prisoner. He abandoned his small submarine after it struck a reef off the north shore of Oahu. (B) DAMAGE REPORT (a) Own (b) Enemy (a) Own Damage. A current recapitulation of all ship damage received on 7 December, 1941, as a result of the Pearl Harbor Raid, is set forth in detail in Enclosure (C). Damage to aircraft is covered in Enclosure (D). (b) Enemy Damage. Based upon a careful study of reports received from the various units involved, including plots by individual ships of enemy planes actually shot down, believed to have been shot down, and seen in flames, it is conservatively estimated that the enemy lost a total of 28 planes due to Navy action, as indicated in enclosed plot (enclosure (A-6)). Three enemy submarines of 45 tons each and carrying 2 torpedoes were accounted for; two were destroyed by Navy action and one grounded off Bellows Field and was recovered. (C) AMMUNITION REPORT The following is a recapitulation of reports, by ships, of total ammunition expended on 7 December, 1941, incident to the Pearl Harbor attack: (g) 1.1" 5,770 rounds
(h) .50 cal. 221,368 rounds
(i) .30 cal. 48,669 rounds
(j) .45 cal. 2,519 rounds
(k) Depth Charges 8
NOTE: This includes only reports received to date.

[el cid again]

Too bad we don't have a similar Army report. And too bad we don't have reports divided by attack. The first attack encountered a lot less opposition than the second. The Army also got a lot less than the Navy did - but there were casualties to Army fighters - and probably to AA in the second wave attacks.

And a full accounting should also list the US planes shot down by AAA - that day - and a few days thereafter!
It was not safe to fly near there. One unit flying in from a carrier got hurt pretty bad. In a sense these aircraft were lost due to the enemy attack - and properly should be classed as casualties of the battle in a grand sense. [Had there been no attack, they would not have been shot down.]

[el cid again]

Since no one reported any results for the revised AA effects, I ran a few micro games: pure AI vs AI no modifications of anything.

The Japanese typically sink 2 or 3 battleships - but sometimes only 1 and once none at all. Nevertheless, many hits are always scored and the fleet is always out of action.

Typical first turn air strike losses are 13 at Pearl Harbor for the morning - and it is not attacking in the afternoon.
Add to that 13 damaged. Note that this was due to BOTH AA and fighters.

At Clark rather more attacks come in: typically 3. Usually there are no losses: occasionally 1.

Singapore is usually hit by bombers without escort - and they usually lose 7. Again - BOTH AA and fighters caused these casualties. Oddly - there were no damaged planes. I guess they can't make it back over the great distance?

These losses seemed too light. So I examined the units. The units usually failed to repair up - but SOME units repaired up half their AA guns. Most units had 0 or 1 repaired guns of any given type.

Since the intent is to simulate both the first wave (which was substantially unopposed) and later waves (which were significantly opposed) I am revising the AA values back upward.

Previously we were running 200-300 % too high at PH - now we are running just below 50% too low. So it appears that a median value may be about right. Running the guns at Hong Kong was a mistake: it went from nasty to nothing done ever. It is also hard to believe there could be much surprise at Hong Kong or Singapore - so these units should probably be better than at PH or Clark.

Instead of messing with aircraft durability - a massive undertaking with 245 types to change - or AA device values - which involve careful relative firepower work relative to other things in more than just AA combat -
I am calibrating so that the existing system yields results in the right range for turn 1. It will take a great deal more data to have a sense of the unit ratings - and to decode what is affecting them? That will be for a post game review.

[Sneer]

idea looks good
i change my computer so i have no opportunity to play witp in last few days

[el cid again]

RHS files have been returned to me. I am incorporating some changes into them - and will issue x.40 files either on time (Dec 7) or a day early.

Changes include a new Japanese aircraft unit ID scheme (requested by real Japanese). They find the mixed system confusing - and indeed it is. The system changed mid war. I have preserved the early war system throughout - and added a code -

a Kokutai number tells you its HQ number if you ignore the last digit. [If only one digit, it is an old unit, and assigned originally to one of the early air flotillas; same if named] But 331st Kokutai is part of 33rd Air Flotilla, etc.

I added more loadouts - including variations of Thai planes for Vichy service- but these only appear in Level 7 in Madagascar. I added a version of Ki-46 III night fighter - just as a loadout - to an early night fighter unit unable to use planes in the set (not yet available). And corrected some errors in loadouts - notably TIV loses its torpedo.
Dutch naval air detachments reshuffeled - and 18th added - to correct minor errors.

For Level 7 I created French land and air units - and 10 locations on Madagascar or nearby islands.
I will add the naval units - only 5 subs might matter - and apparently 4 surface vessels. Plus I know about an AP.

Looks like pwhex will take until after the New Year for Level 7 -

so we will g o with Level 6 for the test game -

Tentatively you have 7 days from issue to do a first turn: that means we issue x.40 on 7 December and do the turn on 14 December - unless something else is preferred.

[Mifune]

After a couple of trial first turns I too have noticed similar PH results

[TulliusDetritus]

RHSCVO 6.37

Two Kiwi units are in the middle of the ocean [8D]

- 2605 NZA 9th Hvy CD Fortress (supposed to be in Auckland)
- 2618 NZA Det 11th CD Fortress (supposed to be in Dunedin)

Both units are west of New Zealand.

P.S.:
sorry if I haven't been active (I mean reporting erratas or doing tests, etc.). My plan: I was waiting for the 7.0 version. Then I would start a H2H game. But I have changed my mind. I'll be playing another game vs the AI. Holidays on the next weeks, and just like in summer (july), I still want to play this RHS game (no internet, etc.). Map and scenario 6.x are fine. That or I will have to wait one month.

EDIT: more errata.

The RAAF No. 106 Base Force (3348 and 3349) is duplicated in Devonport (Island of Tasmania).

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

RHSCVO 6.37

Two Kiwi units are in the middle of the ocean [8D]

- 2605 NZA 9th Hvy CD Fortress (supposed to be in Auckland)
- 2618 NZA Det 11th CD Fortress (supposed to be in Dunedin)

Both units are west of New Zealand.

P.S.:
sorry if I haven't been active (I mean reporting erratas or doing tests, etc.). My plan: I was waiting for the 7.0 version. Then I would start a H2H game. But I have changed my mind. I'll be playing another game vs the AI. Holidays on the next weeks, and just like in summer (july), I still want to play this RHS game (no internet, etc.). Map and scenario 6.x are fine. That or I will have to wait one month.

EDIT: more errata.

The RAAF No. 106 Base Force (3348 and 3349) is duplicated in Devonport (Island of Tasmania).

3348 is 105th base force - but was wrong in some scenarios - fixed for x.40 level.

The CD units are apparently in their Level 7 locations - need to fix for Level 5 and 6.

[el cid again]

Recalibrating the starting AA values for land units on Dec 7/8 1941

I obtained generally better results

HK is running 2 destroyed and 2 damaged,

Manila 1 and 1

Singapore 5 destroyed and 4 damaged

Pearl Harbor 43 destroyed and 29 damaged

History was 25 destroyed at PH

There is no doubt about it - RHS is running higher AA losses than CHS - which is about 30

But this IS what we tried for - and the zero AA guns functional was not producing enough

These values are for 1/2 working at PH and 2/3 working at other points - except Clark AFB zero in the AA unit
and 100% in everything else.

We could try to go 1/3 at PH - but I am inclined to leave it alone for now.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

History was 25 destroyed at PH

I thought it was 29?

[Mifune]

I too thought it was 29 with half of those belonging to the Kaga.

[el cid again]

Quote:

"Japanese losses:

Aircraft: nine fighters, 15 dive ombers, five torpedo planes" <sic>

Which, indeed, = 29.

Osprey No 62, Pearl Harbor 1941

[el cid again]

In honor of the real starting date of the War in the Pacific (which is Dec 8, 1941)

and because we have a few loose ends to tie up

we will release x.40 - and associated pwhex files fixing some minor things -

on Dec 8.

[The war began in Malaya, about two hours before Pearl Harbor was attacked, on Dec 8, 1941.
It also began AT Pearl Harbor on Dec 8 Tokyo Time - since the Japanese only have one time zone
and date in use. Further - most of the theater was on Dec 8 at the time of the initial attacks -
even using our system.]