I really don't understand this. Are you saying that fighters on LRCAP attack submarines?
Yes - bomb carrying fighters will attack an enemy TF, IF in range of the fighter... Now the later versions have made it much harder to do. There cannot be a friendly TF in the same hex or the fighters will auto CAP that instead. But I had read it on one of the AAR's and decided to try it, since Larry was overwhelming my ASW forces along the West Coast. I chose 1000' ft and the P-39's and P-40's were within normal range (otherwise they took gas tanks instead of bombs).
I'll look and see if I can find the AAR where larry lost some subs and post it here.
ORIGINAL: witpqs
Look at grc.com. You can try SpinRite if you want to try and save the drive (about $90 for a lifetime license). But even if you don't there might be some material that explains what is happening.
Wouldn't mind seeing some maps of the DEI/Burma/Northern Aus region to see if that gives any clues to where John is taking his troops, and to see what shape the allies defences are in.
My money still on Aus, with an invasion pretty close to the vital SE of the country
Encircled, Good to see you again!
This is Larry's expertise as well as his playing field - So I'll let him handle this request [;)]
I quite agree with your opinion of Aus, however I see John as taking the resources first, then Perth or someplace where he can repair ships "down there".
This is from Parry and Spar AAR now on page three and about 5 pages back from the end...
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near San Francisco at 215,71
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes
Japanese aircraft
no flights
Allied aircraft
P-26A x 7
P-39D Airacobra x 35
P-400 Airacobra x 25
No Japanese losses
No Allied losses
Japanese Ships
SS I-17, hits 3, Bomb hits 8, and is sunk
SS I-23, hits 3, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
SS I-7, hits 3, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
Aircraft Attacking:
4 x P-400 Airacobra bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
4 x P-400 Airacobra bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
3 x P-400 Airacobra bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
4 x P-39D Airacobra bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
4 x P-39D Airacobra bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
Like I said its much more difficult to do now, but we made it a HR in this game NOT to do it...
Sorry - by "this" I was referring to the NEW HDD... my current configuration allows me to back up automatically to Drive K which is a 500GB Maxtor external HDD. I have not tried to use the back up yet, but I rely on Norton's report that it is successfully saving the complete "C" drive of 125GB weekly.
My point was, and I was very tired when I wrote this, was that information can be transferred to thumb drive successfully, can be backed up successfully to an external drive, just not cloned/serial transferred to the NEW HDD, even though the new HDD checks out as ok by Microsoft and Norton 360 Premier.
The fact my current computer "sees" the drive and when formatted, assigns the drive as "L" tells me its working ok too.
Soooo Wheres The Fun????
Ah, but you can write stuff manually to the new drive? So its the "cloning" process that fails?
This is from Parry and Spar AAR now on page three and about 5 pages back from the end...
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near San Francisco at 215,71
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes
Japanese aircraft
no flights
Allied aircraft
P-26A x 7
P-39D Airacobra x 35
P-400 Airacobra x 25
No Japanese losses
No Allied losses
Japanese Ships
SS I-17, hits 3, Bomb hits 8, and is sunk
SS I-23, hits 3, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
SS I-7, hits 3, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
Aircraft Attacking:
4 x P-400 Airacobra bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
4 x P-400 Airacobra bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
3 x P-400 Airacobra bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
4 x P-39D Airacobra bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
4 x P-39D Airacobra bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
Like I said its much more difficult to do now, but we made it a HR in this game NOT to do it...
You mentioned that you set them to LRCAP; fighters/FBs that are on CAP or LRCAP are not supposed to carry bombs, so that definitely sounds like a bug. Do you by any chance have a save game showing that that you could post for Michael?
When you say more difficult to do now, does that mean that you are finding it no longer works, or just less often?
Ah, but you can write stuff manually to the new drive? So its the "cloning" process that fails?
Joc - actually I have copied an individual file to the new drive, but havent tried manually copying the entire drive using that process yet.
Using Vista 64b in serial mode the computer would recognize the new drive. Then when copying files to the new drive, it gets to around 58GB and suddenly fails leaving a message to check the log - but I cant find any download or transfer log in Vista! and the partial transfer auto-deletes itself. The size used on my original drive is around 125GB, so its a little less than half way done when it craps out...
You mentioned that you set them to LRCAP; fighters/FBs that are on CAP or LRCAP are not supposed to carry bombs, so that definitely sounds like a bug. Do you by any chance have a save game showing that that you could post for Michael?
When you say more difficult to do now, does that mean that you are finding it no longer works, or just less often?
No to your save question, when we took on John3rd I deleted my save files to avoid confusion.
I am able to do this in stock and RA games - so yes it more difficult now by occuring less often... only P-39, P-400, P-40E seem to make bombing attacks. the others will rarely attack, and then just using guns...
Funny (to me) but if you try to low Nav a ship or sub with the fighter a warning box appears telling you that you may only LRCAP attack... So if I do what the warning box tells me to, its a bug? [:D]
I remember something being said in another posting about the F/B's either it was an all or nothing choice in regards to bombing. so they left those alone... I have tried P-38's but no bombs and rare strafing attacks occurred.
You mentioned that you set them to LRCAP; fighters/FBs that are on CAP or LRCAP are not supposed to carry bombs, so that definitely sounds like a bug. Do you by any chance have a save game showing that that you could post for Michael?
When you say more difficult to do now, does that mean that you are finding it no longer works, or just less often?
No to your save question, when we took on John3rd I deleted my save files to avoid confusion.
I am able to do this in stock and RA games - so yes it more difficult now by occuring less often... only P-39, P-400, P-40E seem to make bombing attacks. the others will rarely attack, and then just using guns...
Funny (to me) but if you try to low Nav a ship or sub with the fighter a warning box appears telling you that you may only LRCAP attack... So if I do what the warning box tells me to, its a bug? [:D]
Warning box saying that? News to me. [&:]
I remember something being said in another posting about the F/B's either it was an all or nothing choice in regards to bombing. so they left those alone... I have tried P-38's but no bombs and rare strafing attacks occurred.
Sure...
just find ANY enemy TF off the West Coast alone in that hex and then pick a fighter group (within its normal range) to attack it on Naval Attack... The right hand box greys out and if you choose the target then the "warning box" saying you must use LRCAP to atack a naval target, or somesuch... I 'll capture a screenshot on my next turn...
Sure...
just find ANY enemy TF off the West Coast alone in that hex and then pick a fighter group (within its normal range) to attack it on Naval Attack... The right hand box greys out and if you choose the target then the "warning box" saying you must use LRCAP to atack a naval target, or somesuch... I 'll capture a screenshot on my next turn...
If you set a fighter unit to Naval the target box greys out same as for any aircraft. You can't order Naval on a specific target anywhere in the game. You don't get a LRCAP box; I just tested it and I'm on the 'V' beta.
Are you perhaps talking about ordering a Sweep on a naval target?
The warning box I was referring to was the one that, if you click on it, SAYS you can't attack, you must LRCAP... sorry if I wasn't clear on that...
You've got me really thinking now, I was pretty sure I was doing a low naval attack with the fighters against the Jap subs on the West Coast. Maybe it was a sweep???? I know thats what it is now and half the time they don't even find anything even if the TF is identified by search planes... I clearly remember reading about it in a post and going "wow, what a great idea!" [:D] I promptly started using it against Larry in our first game and he was getting bombed with two and three fighter groups per hex. He showed me his SS damaged ships right before we quit... It was quite amazing!
I'm going back to look now, see if I can find it.
This was the only other thing I could find in the AAR... RE: Get outta the way, playin thru!!!! - 7/22/2013 10:30:40 PM
I also had something happen in the game I've never seen before - I have 6 P39D/P400 sqdns at S.F. When I had an infestation of subs around S.F. I set all the planes on ASW and I also had 6 sqdns of P39D/P400 fighters sitting there trying to gain experience. I set them up to Naval Attack @ 1000 Ft... They went sept 3-6 without finding anything, then on Sept 7th... 12P-26 35 P-39Ds and 25 P400's ALL attacked at 100ft... sinking THREE subs! Now I know about FOW and fully expect this is exaggerated, but what triggered the attack after 3 turns of nothing? Beats me...
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jan 06, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, this is the fourth USN sub damaged by J3's ASW... How is it so good so early?
ASW attack near Midway Island at 158,91
Japanese Ships
xAP Asama Maru
DD Yunagi
DD Sazanami
PC PB-66
Allied Ships
SS Cuttlefish, hits 7
I'll take that! - a little payback is welcomed
ASW attack near Christmas Island at 174,141
Japanese Ships
CA Kako, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Ise
CA Kinugasa
CL Oi
DD Umikaze
xAP Baikal Maru
xAP Argentina Maru
xAK Hohuku Maru
xAK Montreal Maru
xAK Arabia Maru
DD Hakaze
DD Mikazuki
DD Ariake
DD Yugure
Allied Ships
SS S-27
PBY's rule!
Morning Air attack on TF, near Johnston Island at 157,112
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid spotted at 2 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes
Allied aircraft
PBY-5 Catalina x 5
No Allied losses
Japanese Ships
xAK Clyde Maru
xAK Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
Aircraft Attacking:
5 x PBY-5 Catalina bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
Can we guess what happens now? Bye Bye Bye!
Pre-Invasion action off Christmas Island (174,141)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force
4 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga
BB Ise
CA Kinugasa
CL Yubari
CL Oi
DD Mikazuki
DD Ariake
DD Suzukaze
DD Umikaze
PG Hai Can 12
PG Hai Can 11
PB Kinsyo Maru #4
AMC Saigon Maru
DD Yugure
DD Hakaze
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jan 07, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cap'n says she's too small for a torpedo, so light 'er up boys!
Sub attack near Nauru Island at 127,127
Japanese Ships
xAKL Shonan Maru #8, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
Allied Ships
SS S-23
Just because things have been going so "well", I decided a suicide run against an unk TF was in order from Manila... and lookee what happens! [;)]
Night Time Surface Combat, near Bataan at 78,77, Range 1,000 Yards
Japanese Ships
DMS W-1
DMS W-3, Shell hits 1
DMS W-4, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DMS W-14
Allied Ships
PT Q-111
PT Q-112
PT Q-113
Also from Manila, I decided to hit the ground forces with the ONLY thing left in the arsenal... P-40's! oh yeah and some leftover floatplanes!
Morning Air attack on 9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion, at 79,77 (Manila)
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms
Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-27b Nate x 2
Allied aircraft
P-40B Warhawk x 6
P-40E Warhawk x 4
SOC-1 Seagull x 5
Aircraft Attacking:
5 x SOC-1 Seagull bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb
4 x P-40E Warhawk bombing from 100 feet
Ground Attack: 1 x 500 lb GP Bomb
Morning Air attack on 21st Ind. Engineer Regiment, at 79,77 (Manila)
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms
Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes
Allied aircraft
P-40B Warhawk x 6
P-40E Warhawk x 9
Morning Air attack on 21st Ind. Engineer Regiment, at 79,77 (Manila)
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms
Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 2,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes
Allied aircraft
P-40B Warhawk x 1
No Allied losses
Aircraft Attacking:
1 x P-40B Warhawk sweeping at 15000 feet
Ground combat at Manila (79,77)
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 1244 troops, 85 guns, 92 vehicles, Assault Value = 856
Defending force 58357 troops, 755 guns, 791 vehicles, Assault Value = 1685
Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 8 (3 destroyed, 5 disabled)
I had my doubt's about the success of getting P'cola back to Pearl Harbor, but figured it was worth a try - W R O N G...
Morning Air attack on TF, near Palmyra at 166,124
Weather in hex: Clear sky
Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 43
D3A1 Val x 25
Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 2 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak
Allied Ships
CA Pensacola, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Lawrence, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
Combat Report enclosed
P.S. - I just got an e-mail from J3 with the new turn... Larry gets it first BUT to confess I have been instigating John with trash talk in the e-mails (honest, he started it first! [:D])
I questioned the advisability of bringing his depleted CV Tf in range of my "Death Star" at Johnston Is... Truth is it was the Enterprise TF as the other 3 CV's somehow got thier fuel depleted between S.D. and Pearl Harbor... so they are in Drydock for up to 3 weeks with damage!
john is claiming round one is his - I will have to see the replay, but I fear 1 CV may be a new fish hatchery...<sigh>
Ah, but you can write stuff manually to the new drive? So its the "cloning" process that fails?
Joc - actually I have copied an individual file to the new drive, but havent tried manually copying the entire drive using that process yet.
Using Vista 64b in serial mode the computer would recognize the new drive. Then when copying files to the new drive, it gets to around 58GB and suddenly fails leaving a message to check the log - but I cant find any download or transfer log in Vista! and the partial transfer auto-deletes itself. The size used on my original drive is around 125GB, so its a little less than half way done when it craps out...
Might be that its the cloning software acting up. But I think your biggest problem is using Vista from the beginning... [:D]
Regarding the game you guys should listen to aztez. You are just giving stuff away to JIII.
He is going to sail across the oceans in the worst kind of "gung ho" fashion sinking ships right and left. Just keep your shipping out of the way and let him hit empty ocean burning fuel he can ill afford to use. He plays very aggressive but to my knowledge have never play very long into any game as they seem to end in 42-43.
All those gung ho raids is costing him fuel he can´t afford. But stop giving him targets. Move your shipping behind your search so you can bug out when he comes guns blazing. You have to come to terms with the fact that the first 6 months as the allies are about avoiding unnecessary losses, avoiding AV and slowly build your strength. Even more then usual in this fantasy scenario that is tailored to suit JIIIs playing style.
Just sit back and let him waste himself on nothing. In 2-3 months without BANZAIS he going to get frustrated and do something stupid. THEN you act on his mistake.
Yup! If you are going to feed him like you have now than is going to total autovictory for the Japanese side.
I haven't read the enemy AAR but I gather he has not lost much.
Just looking at the dates he doing excellent and you can expect much worse before it gets better.
Don't throw away CV's in single carrier TF.. well this RA thus don't throw away them even in larger TF. You do not have the fighters nor bombers to damage him yet.
This is all meant in good way to fellow allied players... shape up or you will get utterly butchered in this one... and yes prepare for much worse since he has got so much for nothing thus far.
John 3rd and FatR did most of the early work. I've thrown in my 2 cents when it came to the Allies to give them a few new toys to play with. Others have added their input. This mod is more of a "what if" for the IJN and not like Scenario 2 which is more of a IJA mod (IJA was not changed in this mod). The IJN gets a few more ships and their air arm is stronger at start with an Air Fleet in Japan that can help in the months to come after some training. Hopefully, it will give the IJN better staying power in '43 and beyond when facing the onslaught of American shipbuilding.
The Allies get a few things like the Omaha CLs can upgrade to CLAAs in 1/42 (mine will be done by early 5/42) and some AV, AKV, and AOs can be converted to CVEs. The Americans get dedicated training groups - 3 Army, 3 Navy, and 2 Marine to help with better pilot quality. After I went a little overboard on P-38 production/replacement numbers, there is a slight bump in American fighter numbers from about mid-42 on (P-38s and P-40K as examples). One of my pet peeves was Allied recon plane numbers. I hate having too few F-4s and F-5s. Those groups come in close to full and the monthly numbers are better. RA also gives both side a slight increase in daily PP - 50 to 60. This should help you guys out by getting more troops out from USA and swapping for better leaders.
I say all this to have you slow down in giving John what he wants....to sink any ship that's afloat. [:D] I've known him since his epic game vs Canoerebel playing WITP when Dan landed at Iwo Jima in '43 and I came to his rescue his economy with the aid of Damian and Tracker. He has gotten better, but he loves the naval side of this game and will take some risk. Study him and use his aggressiveness against him.
The warning box I was referring to was the one that, if you click on it, SAYS you can't attack, you must LRCAP... sorry if I wasn't clear on that...
You've got me really thinking now, I was pretty sure I was doing a low naval attack with the fighters against the Jap subs on the West Coast. Maybe it was a sweep???? I know thats what it is now and half the time they don't even find anything even if the TF is identified by search planes... I clearly remember reading about it in a post and going "wow, what a great idea!" [:D] I promptly started using it against Larry in our first game and he was getting bombed with two and three fighter groups per hex. He showed me his SS damaged ships right before we quit... It was quite amazing!
I'm going back to look now, see if I can find it.
This was the only other thing I could find in the AAR... RE: Get outta the way, playin thru!!!! - 7/22/2013 10:30:40 PM
I also had something happen in the game I've never seen before - I have 6 P39D/P400 sqdns at S.F. When I had an infestation of subs around S.F. I set all the planes on ASW and I also had 6 sqdns of P39D/P400 fighters sitting there trying to gain experience. I set them up to Naval Attack @ 1000 Ft... They went sept 3-6 without finding anything, then on Sept 7th... 12P-26 35 P-39Ds and 25 P400's ALL attacked at 100ft... sinking THREE subs! Now I know about FOW and fully expect this is exaggerated, but what triggered the attack after 3 turns of nothing? Beats me...
Like others I'm interested in this box you see. I can't recall ever seeing something like that. If you come across one I'd love a screenshot.
Fighters can do naval attacks after a fashion. I've used them in the Aleutians in anti-ship roles, and Mike (1EyedJacks) used Oscars this way quite a bit to hit my harbor defense small craft at Singers. Oscars dropping mini-bombs of 40 or 60kg each. But 50 or 60 Oscars with a couple of bombs each get hits. The P-39, with the cannon, can mess up PBs, TBs, and even do some damage to DDs if you send them in very low.
But like all planes fighters only naval attack when the detection level on the target is good enough for the secret code to trigger the attack. Why they wait two days and go on the third is one of the more frustrating things about the naval game side.
I'm aware that we are losing ships and planes and ground to J3!!!!
AGAIN - this is Larry's first time as a Allied player and he does not know what YOU do about the game, especially where the Allied hide and run for cover tactics are necessary...
He chose to be the Commonwealth/Chinese player and has been asking for help and applying it where and when he can... We both are relative newcomers to this awesome game and are constantly asking for help, and we do appreciate your advice because it has been invaluable ( I really mean that!) but without posting the screen shots of ships sunk (which would prove both your point and mine). The US fleet - not counting the thundering herd move, has lost less than 10 ships overall since the game began so I'll take a C- as my score to date in that dept..
I'm trying to get Larry acclimated to the Allied game and he has made progress, I probably should have insisted on being the Commonwealth player instead, as I have many more games played as the Allies as Larry does. In retrospect it might have made a small difference... but what does Larry learn? or me for that matter?
I don't want to sound ungrateful, but it's starting to look like piling on here, BUT I wouldn't mind if it wasn't going to affect Larry... He already offered to drop out twice and I keep talking him into staying and playing because he needs to learn what you guys already know...
I forwarded everything Michael sent to Larry and have studied my ass off trying to learn it, but still there's just sooooo much in this game. Maybe you folks have an idea for Larry to catch up Allied tactics quicker or better than I've been able to do?
Hey if we lose, we lose, I knew going into this match I would be overmatched playing J3, but still in additon to everything else I'm having a damn good time playing against one of the better players here and also have a friend along for the ride!
My vent is over and thanks for reading it... Umm We still DO need advice... any chance????, please?[:D][:D][:D]
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