Never Thought I'd Start Another One - tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J)

[PaxMondo]

Great tips but seems a little gamey! Maybe these ships should not come with free mines!

Do you realize the numbers of sea mines that were produced, laid in minefields, yet are not in the game?

Right so why not increase the number of mines in the pools and eliminate the free mines that come on ships to prevent the gaminess of converting back and forth?

To me, no big deal. Takes +30 days to do one conversion cycle. The To'su only hold like 20 mines. That's an extra <240 mines/year IF you are willing to work that hard for them. And they are the Type 4 mines (the small one) which aren't that powerful. Now, if you had a way to make the bigger mine Type 93 or Type 88, then maybe I would have something to say ....

But of course, I only play against the AI, don't do this and neither does my opponent.


The mines were SEVERELY decreased in WITP-AE because in the original WITP the game had become MITP ... Mines in the Pacific. You can go back to the old WITP forum and read about it .... it was really quite a gameplay problem.

Are they historically modelled? NO. Can the game engine do so? Pretty clearly NOT. Do we want to go back to MITP? NO. So, let's just leave things as they are .... if anything, I would suggest just fix the autoload when created so that it pulls from the pool. BUT, that won't happen at this stage so, it is what it is ....

[RangerJoe]

Great tips but seems a little gamey! Maybe these ships should not come with free mines!

Do you realize the numbers of sea mines that were produced, laid in minefields, yet are not in the game?

Right so why not increase the number of mines in the pools and eliminate the free mines that come on ships to prevent the gaminess of converting back and forth?

Go ahead, you can use the editor to modify a scenario.

[Tanaka]

Do you realize the numbers of sea mines that were produced, laid in minefields, yet are not in the game?

Right so why not increase the number of mines in the pools and eliminate the free mines that come on ships to prevent the gaminess of converting back and forth?

To me, no big deal. Takes +30 days to do one conversion cycle. The To'su only hold like 20 mines. That's an extra <240 mines/year IF you are willing to work that hard for them. And they are the Type 4 mines (the small one) which aren't that powerful. Now, if you had a way to make the bigger mine Type 93 or Type 88, then maybe I would have something to say ....

But of course, I only play against the AI, don't do this and neither does my opponent.


The mines were SEVERELY decreased in WITP-AE because in the original WITP the game had become MITP ... Mines in the Pacific. You can go back to the old WITP forum and read about it .... it was really quite a gameplay problem.

Are they historically modelled? NO. Can the game engine do so? Pretty clearly NOT. Do we want to go back to MITP? NO. So, let's just leave things as they are .... if anything, I would suggest just fix the autoload when created so that it pulls from the pool. BUT, that won't happen at this stage so, it is what it is ....

Ah interesting on the game history! Actually that is a great idea and makes more sense!

[Mike Solli]

17 Mar 42

China

Nanyang was liberated today. My casualties were 4800, spread out among the divisions, with the 2 brigades taking most of the losses. They took a fair amount of disablements, but few actual losses. The Chinese took 25k casualties including 628 infantry squads destroyed. The army will now march on Sian.

Nice!!!

So, is this your primary advance on CK or just secondary to going up through Kweiyang?


Sorry, been missing for a bit ...

Actually, there are 3 different advances going on. In the south, I'm working on the east-west rail line. I have the center taken and am attacking Nanning tomorrow, which should easily fall. Then I'll head east and take Hengyang and Kukong. I'm hoping that'll help jump start the overland oil and resource flow from Malaya and Thailand.

In the center, the army that took Nanyang will move up to take Sian and then head to Lanchow to take the oil at those two locations.

In the far north, the goal is Urumchi's oil. After that, then squeezing in on Chungking.

One thing I'm going to do soon is to move some Zeros to China for some extra experience. That'll happen when I get some Zero units in a couple weeks.

[Mike Solli]

Edited: All mines laid in one day are one minefield. Mines laid on a different day are a different minefield. So even if one minefield is discovered, there can be a hidden one.

Or maybe better to just say a separate mine field. You can see this with your AM/DM's when they clear. Original game start minefields will clear in big chunks depending upon how many AM/DM's you have. I've seen +300 mines cleared in a single line item:

Code: Select all

TF 39 encounters mine field at Bataan (78,77)
 
Japanese Ships
      AM Narita Maru
      AM Bisaku Maru
      AM Yasushima Maru
      AM Toyokuni Maru
      AM America Maru
      AM Ryusei Maru #2
      AM Nikki Maru #2
      AM Ichiyo Maru
      AM Nichiro Maru
      AM Tatsumi Maru
      AM Lushan Maru
      AM Tokihime Maru
      AM Ogashima
      AM Menado Maru
      AM Nigitsu Maru
      AM Isshin Maru
      AM Ichiyu Maru
      AM Minowa Maru
      AM Muroran Maru #2
      AM Kaisho Maru
      AM Karimo Maru
      AM Chiyo Maru
 
269 mines cleared

In other cases there will be multiple line items representing multiple mine fields in the location (I don't have a handy example yet from my current game, I'm still playing against original minefields in my current game.)

EDIT: I should add that SOMETIMES the minesweepers don't pickup on the separate minefields ... and then you get BOOMS. No idea what variables are involved other than GG's random ...

I've been having really good luck with clearing enemy minefields. Haven't lost any minesweepers to mines....yet.

[Mike Solli]

19 Mar 42

Sub War

I-174 put a torpedo into an xAK a couple hexes south of Dutch Harbor. No report of her sinking.

Ted has Dutch subs patrolling around Babeldaob, Balikpapan and Truk. My DDs and SCs are doing a nice job of keeping them at bay. Interestingly, the SCs upgrade their DCs to the Mod-2 very quickly (Mar and Apr 42), so they are actually effective ASW platforms. Now their experience is another story...

5 Fleet

Nothing to report other than the sub attack.

4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

My sweep of Pt. Moresby met no enemy fighters. They flew their own sweep and escort missions.

Betty bombers went after the enemy troops at Milne Bay but their escort didn't fly. The result was 4 Betties shot down. They did do a nice amount of damage to the troops.

SRA

Malaya

Singapore - 1586(+17) - 704(-10) - Going to attack before the month is out. One of the 4 divisions is still not in great shape.

Philippines

Bataan - 1025(+27) - 475(0) - Going to attack in the next day or so.

Borneo

This campaign is effectively over. Still 4 enemy bases to take.

Sumatra

I have a fair chunk of bombers hitting the troops at Medan. They're very effective with a couple dozen squads destroyed and move disabled today. The assault force is still a couple days out.

Java

Chewing up more Dutch remnants.

Burma

Only 7 Hurricane sorties flew over Magwe today. One was shot down to 2 Oscars (1 WIA). I think Ted is resting his air units.

China

Attacking Nanning tomorrow.

Other Stuff

Nothing to report.

[PaxMondo]

19 Mar 42

Sub War

I-174 put a torpedo into an xAK a couple hexes south of Dutch Harbor. No report of her sinking.

Ted has Dutch subs patrolling around Babeldaob, Balikpapan and Truk. My DDs and SCs are doing a nice job of keeping them at bay. Interestingly, the SCs upgrade their DCs to the Mod-2 very quickly (Mar and Apr 42), so they are actually effective ASW platforms. Now their experience is another story...

re-reading Herb's "The little ship that could" .... Cantona was VERY effective with his subs, even before the duds get fixed in April?43 (a great number of clangs that later convert to months of RSY time or losses) ... I often suspected that Herb (great writer and AirWar expert that he is) was a bit "soft" on his ASW (as in didn't really focus on this compared to other aspects). I'm watching this with great interest to see how well you do .vs. Ted in the "sub-wars".

[Mike Solli]

19 Mar 42

Sub War

I-174 put a torpedo into an xAK a couple hexes south of Dutch Harbor. No report of her sinking.

Ted has Dutch subs patrolling around Babeldaob, Balikpapan and Truk. My DDs and SCs are doing a nice job of keeping them at bay. Interestingly, the SCs upgrade their DCs to the Mod-2 very quickly (Mar and Apr 42), so they are actually effective ASW platforms. Now their experience is another story...

re-reading Herb's "The little ship that could" .... Cantona was VERY effective with his subs, even before the duds get fixed in April?43 (a great number of clangs that later convert to months of RSY time or losses) ... I often suspected that Herb (great writer and AirWar expert that he is) was a bit "soft" on his ASW (as in didn't really focus on this compared to other aspects). I'm watching this with great interest to see how well you do .vs. Ted in the "sub-wars".

Right now, I see only a couple of subs, around Truk and Babeldaob. An occasional one elsewhere but really rare anywhere else. I think he's just waiting for the dud rate to drop. He'll shoot occasionally, but I have naval search to complement the ASW ships for effective deterrence in those two areas. I believe I sank only one sub at sea so far, along with a half dozen or so in port in the Aleutians. That sunk sub (Ted confirmed it) was the only DC hit. I'm working on ASW pilots, but only one operational ASW air unit so far. Getting close though. That'll be the pretty much only mission for IJA 1E bombers eventually. All of my Vals are training naval attack until I get some in the pool, but some of them will switch to ASW training eventually. Training DBs in naval attack is so darn slow. The experience levels suck.

[Mike Solli]

20 Mar 42

Sub War

Nothing to report.

5 Fleet

Nothing to report.

4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

I swept Milne Bay hoping to get the 3 P-40s that shot down 4 of my Betties yesterday and I was successful and shot down 2 and I believe the third crashed on the way home.

I landed an SNLF at Milne Bay and the escorting warships bombarded. I learned that the 1 Marine Raider Battalion is there, along with one other unit. I'll attack tomorrow. I'm going to LRCAP Milne Bay from Gasmata. I also have 54 Betties set to naval attack in that small area, just in case. Also, their secondary mission is to bomb the ground troops at Milne Bay. Finally, I have 4 CA that were following the invasion force. They will bombard tomorrow morning. I'm hoping that the combination of ships and planes will chew up the Raiders enough for my SNLF to take it.

The sweep of Pt. Moresby netted nothing. The enemy refused to fly.

SRA

Malaya

Singapore - 1605(+19) - 698(-6) - I'm trying a deliberate assault tomorrow, but am keeping 56 Division out of combat. It's still pretty beat up. It was the division that took practically all of the losses when I moved into Singapore and had to do a shock attack. There should still be level 3 forts there.

Philippines

Bataan - 1038(+13) - 472(-3) - I'm letting the infantry rest another day or two.

Borneo

Nothing to report.

Sumatra

71 bombers hit Medan chewing up the enemy garrison further. My troops are still a couple of days out.

Java

I attacked the Dutch in various places again, killing 7 enemy units. Now, I see 24 Dutch units on the mainland and 2 on the island to the east of Soerabaja. I'll attack again tomorrow.

Burma

Enemy bombers attempted to hit 14 Tank Regiment, heading into China from Lashio, but without success. The enemy bombers were unescorted. I'm attempting to LRCAP 14 Tank Regiment tomorrow.

China

My attack on Nanning was unsuccessful, but only because of the forts there. The 4:1 attack met level 3 forts, which were reduced to level 2. I had half a dozen disrupted squads vs. 37 enemy squads killed and another 7 disrupted. I'll attack again tomorrow.

Other Stuff

The Ha-45 R&D advanced to May 43. That engine should become operational in August 42.

[PaxMondo]

... Training DBs in naval attack is so darn slow. The experience levels suck.

Amen to that ... ditto the TB's. They both are SO slow.

[PaxMondo]

China

My attack on Nanning was unsuccessful, but only because of the forts there. The 4:1 attack met level 3 forts, which were reduced to level 2. I had half a dozen disrupted squads vs. 37 enemy squads killed and another 7 disrupted. I'll attack again tomorrow.

Nice! Taking Nanning, will that open up your road between Singers and Fusan, or do you still need Kweilin?

Other Stuff

The Ha-45 R&D advanced to May 43. That engine should become operational in August 42.

Aug42 is a VERY good date to get that engine. How many factories do you have on it?

[Mike Solli]

China

My attack on Nanning was unsuccessful, but only because of the forts there. The 4:1 attack met level 3 forts, which were reduced to level 2. I had half a dozen disrupted squads vs. 37 enemy squads killed and another 7 disrupted. I'll attack again tomorrow.

Nice! Taking Nanning, will that open up your road between Singers and Fusan, or do you still need Kweilin?

Other Stuff

The Ha-45 R&D advanced to May 43. That engine should become operational in August 42.

Aug42 is a VERY good date to get that engine. How many factories do you have on it?

I have 6 factories on the Ha-45 including the 80 and 40. When they are operational, I'll increase those two to 90 and 60, so I'll have 270 engines building a month.

Here's China:

China.png (2.2 MiB) Viewed 275 times

I want to take Hengyang and Kukong so I have the entire rail line at my disposal.

[Mike Solli]

... Training DBs in naval attack is so darn slow. The experience levels suck.

Amen to that ... ditto the TB's. They both are SO slow.

I'm still debating when to pull the DBs for use in KB. I'd like 70 for Naval Bombing. The experience is abysmal. 50 may have to do.

[RangerJoe]

... Training DBs in naval attack is so darn slow. The experience levels suck.

Amen to that ... ditto the TB's. They both are SO slow.

I'm still debating when to pull the DBs for use in KB. I'd like 70 for Naval Bombing. The experience is abysmal. 50 may have to do.

Once they hit 70 in Naval Bombing, train them in Search and/or ASW. Then they can gain experience flying some patrols.

[Mike Solli]

21 Mar 42

Sub War

Milne Bay is both a blessing and a curse. The nice part is that Ted is throwing subs into the fray there. More on the details below, but the S-38 made an appearance and took 2 DC hits in that shallow hex. Reports say she sank, but no sinking sounds were heard.

Later in the day, the Dutch KXI caught a DC at Milne Bay. I'm pretty sure she survived.

5 Fleet

Nothing to report.

4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

So, I invaded Milne Bay and know that the 1 Marine Raider Battalion and the Aussie 2/1 Independent Company are there. I landed the Maizuru 1 SNLF, a pretty decent unit and had them attack today. The Allied troops had been bombed by Betties for a few days and 4 CAs did a bombardment this morning. The attack went in, but the idiot commander must have done a Banzi charge because they got butchered. 90% of the unit still exists but all of the surviving infantry (42 of 48 squads) is disabled. I think the Allied troops are in pretty bad shape too, but if they can attack tomorrow, this unit is toast.

Immediately after the CAs bombarded, two enemy APDs arrived but both TFs withdrew. I suspect it was because the CA main guns were just about out of ammo. That really irritated me because the DDs had all their ammo and there was plenty of secondary ammo for the CAs, plus a full load of torpedoes. I sent the CA TF back to Rabaul to rearm. The invasion force headed to Gasmata to pick up their garrison, a NG to reinforce my "troops".

After the sun rose, my Zeros swept Milne Bay destroying 1 of 2 P-40Es that met them.

More of my Zeros met 14 B-17Es over Pt. Moresby. They managed to shoot down 1, but about half the Zeros were damaged. The bombers were going after my troops in Pt. Moresby. They rarely do any damage, but I really need some Nicks to be able to actually make a difference.

In the afternoon, 15 P-39Ds came to strafe my troops at Pt. Moresby and were met by 2 Zeros. The Zeros caused the P-39s to engage them instead of bombing and they managed to shoot down a Zero (no pilot loss). These were the last two of the Zeros that encountered the B-17s earlier in the day. I suspect they were too beat up to offer much resistance.

SRA

Malaya

Singapore - 1616(+11) - 693(-5) - I did a deliberate assault here. The 2:1 assault reduced the forts from 3 to 2. My losses were minimal, and the Brits lost 50 squads destroyed and another 166 disrupted. I screwed up though. I have 4 infantry divisions here, but 1 is badly beat up from the initial shock attack into Singapore. Of the other 3, one was in reserve and is in good shape and the other 2 are at full strength. I planned on attacking with all 3 divisions, but didn't notice that the one that was in reserve didn't attack. So, I attacked with only 2 divisions. Luckily, the Brits are in bad shape and I lost no infantry squad destroyed, just about 50 disabled split between the 2 divisions. I'll let then rest for a few days and then attack again, this time with all 3.

Philippines

Bataan - 1050(+12) - 468(-4) - still resting the infantry.

Borneo

Nothing to report.

Sumatra

Most of the assault force reached Medan, but they will wait for the rest, which should arrive tomorrow. In the mean time, my bombers plastered the defending troops again.

Java

Malang was attacked again chewing up more Dutch for little loss.

Burma

Over Magwe, 5 Hurricanes flew into my buzz saw and 3 were shot down for no loss.

China

Nanning was liberated today. The infrastructure was 50% damaged:

Manpower: 1(1)
Resources: 20(20)
LI: 10(10) - That's 20 less supply a turn for the Chinese Army.

Other Stuff

Reinforcement
DD Naganami - Yugumo class - KB escort.

[Mike Solli]

22 Mar 42

Sub War

See below - SE Fleet AO.

5 Fleet

Nothing to report.

4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

Milne Bay was the center of attention here, again. The Dutch squadron (3 CL, 6 DD) arrived to bombard but ran into the RO-61, and attempted to DC her. Some near misses caused minor damage.

Then, they bombarded my hapless SNLF at Milne Bay. Fortunately, there were more focused on looking for the sub and not aiming, and the bombardment did nothing.

No, it was not over. The RO-61 found another TF composed of CLs Perth, Boise and Mauritius, escorted by a DD and put a torpedo into Perth heavily damaging her. She was reported as sunk, but I'm sure she's still afloat.

This is where I realized I made a mistake with m 4 CA TF. They arrived at Rabaul and couldn't replenish the main gun ammo. I'm sending some AKEs from Truk to Rabaul but that'll take a few days. Then I realized I had a better idea. (I'm still sending the AKEs to Rabaul.) I'm sending KB south again, and also a 2 BB surface TF. KB will be in range in 2 days. Please stay at Milne Bay!

SRA

Malaya

Singapore - 1506(-110) - 626(-67) - Resting a few more days...

Philippines

Bataan - 1061(+11) - 467(-1)

Borneo



Sumatra



Java

Bombers plastered the Medan defenders again. Guess what I forgot to do? I forgot to have my assault force attack.

Burma

So, I tried to do something sneaky that didn't work, but it still worked out to my benefit. I was sneaking 41 IR from the hex east of Mandalay to the NW to Shwebo. There were 2 small units there and I thought I could take the base and cut Mandalay's supply line. What I didn't notice was that Ted saw it and moved forces from Mandalay to Shwebo. I moved across a river, so there was a shock attack. Ouch. The regiment got trashed and retreated back across the river. I'm glad they retreated, or they would have been destroyed in the next turn. Yeah, I lost troops, but they can (and will) be rebuilt. The 41 IR is part of 30 Division. The other 2 infantry regiments are just arriving in Burma, but the recon, arty and engineers won't arrive for another 444 days. Plenty of time to rebuild the regiment.

Here's the good part. Ted moved most of the infantry out of Mandalay, leaving the following still there:

16 Indian Brigade
Mandalay BMP Battalion
1 Gloucester Battalion
221 Gp RAF
103 RN Base Force
1 Burma Auxiliary AA Regiment
Burma Corps HQ

I have 33 Division (full strength and rested), 55 Division (- an infantry regiment), 21 Med FA Battalion and 15 Army HQ. I am attacking with them tomorrow. I have as much infantry (11.1k) as they have total troops. Here's the real kicker. Ted has 36 fighters in Mandalay. If he doesn't think I am going to attack, he may not move them out. If I can win, he could lose 36 fighters and pilots on the ground. The only thing I have no knowledge of is the number of forts there are there. Tomorrow should be interesting.

China

Nothing exciting to report.

Other Stuff

Just a small update on my aircraft R&D. I have 2 factories that are completely repaired. One is at Tojo and the other a Zero factory. Yes, I get the newest model of each in June 42, but I really need the Tojo, even the IIa when compared to the Oscar.

[RangerJoe]

For reinforcing Milne Bay, I would use Fast Transport TFs. The ships will bombard only the enemy ground troops and not the installations. You can even put battleships in the TFs. You can also just bring in supplies. This will also force the enemy to bombard your forces that is if they have anything to bombard.

Since you did so good at Singapore, you might have attacked again the next day but with all three divisions.

If you can, put a minefield on the approaches to Milne Bay in shallow water but not at the base. That way the enemy won't see the mines and you won't clear any the turn that they are laid.

[PaxMondo]

21 Mar 42

Sub War
Reports say she sank, but no sinking sounds were heard.

Fake NEWS!!!


I have recently become convinced the this is the origin of FAKE NEWS. Yes, sad to say, GG and his WitP originated FAKE NEWS over 20 years ago and now the concept has gone viral and is taking over the world. Very sad thought, that we, our brethren here, are responsible for the diaspora that is now the NEWS.

[PaxMondo]

22 Mar 42
Other Stuff

Just a small update on my aircraft R&D. I have 2 factories that are completely repaired. One is at Tojo and the other a Zero factory. Yes, I get the newest model of each in June 42, but I really need the Tojo, even the IIa when compared to the Oscar.

I know, the Ki-43 is just so disappointing ... a slightly faster Ki-27, and how is THAT going to help you against anything more than a I-15 or P26? It doesn't in fact.

Yes, the Ki-44 is a far better plane than the early Ki-43's, but it is still not nearly as good as the A6M; it lacks both fire power (20mm cannon vs 12.7mm MG) and range (14 vs 8) for offensive actions. Still have to move to the Ki-44, but doesn't mean I like it. This is what eventually forced me into going all out on the Ki-84. 70% of your fighter groups are IJA, not IJN, so that means you need a GOOD IJA fighter; and the first best answer to that is the Ki-84. So, I go "all in" on it. Literally. But you still can't get it before early '43 so ... that's +15 months of war before you get a good answer.

The last time I played a stock scenario, I continually "dismounted" most of my KB fighters and used them to "shore up" my offensive punch. A6M groups can cover a LOT of distance far FASTER than the KB using only a little supply and NOT tons of fuel. So, I dismount say 4 of 6 fighter groups whenever the KB is idle or in transit and get a LOT of use out of them. Yes, there are losses, but here are few things to consider:
- you have your VERY BEST IJN fighter leaders on these groups. The more use, the better the return on this PP investment.
- it is easy to swap out your best pilots for decent pilots
- allows you to grow your IJN pilot pool of good pilots. Yes, of course you lose some, but the ones you don't are now good replacements in the KB and you both got them there sooner and got good use out of them.

Downside is you have to build more A6M's than you normally would, but isn't spending that HI and supply on an A6M a better value than a Ki-43?

I digress ...

[Mike Solli]

21 Mar 42

Sub War
Reports say she sank, but no sinking sounds were heard.

Fake NEWS!!!


I have recently become convinced the this is the origin of FAKE NEWS. Yes, sad to say, GG and his WitP originated FAKE NEWS over 20 years ago and now the concept has gone viral and is taking over the world. Very sad thought, that we, our brethren here, are responsible for the diaspora that is now the NEWS.